Yeah, well, you know
There, you go.
Welcome everyone this is the St Louis Units user group meeting December, Fourteenth, first stop tonight.
Is Robert Cityk and Robert is going to tell us.
All about.
Bye
Word, leak, right, rabbit.
Well, actually, it's gonna be about grep. But I'm gonna use little as a as an example problem
Okay, go, for it.
Alright, let me just move over trying to get things set up.
Here, there, we go.
Boom, all right.
Alright, so this is a gonna be our is a general introduction to grep, basically for for playing world, if you got a phone that's, a that's a QR, code, that'll, get you directly to this presentation, you're, welcome to watch it there, or or Anywhere Else.
Hello!
Alright so let's get started. So if you haven't played portal, what is it basically a 500 word, game, you're supposed to guess the word, Within 6 guesses right and so you basically, every time you take a guess
Oh, whoever that is is scratching their microphone.
Can can they please? Mute, because that's counting in my ears
Alright Let's See hopefully this works. Better so in essence, every time.
You guess a word. the color changes in in this example, wary the the w is in the word as it dig, noted, by the green, the eye, is in the word but it's in the wrong Spot, right and the last example, is you the letter u is not in the word at any spot and so those are kind
Of the Hints that you get every time, you play words, but when I saw this, I thought, well, gee whiz, this is this isn't kind of a that basically a pattern matching problem right the thing is is that the solution space is actually fairly big right I mean, you've got
a bunch of words right, and it's one of those that's the right. Word.
This is not the list of words that's possible. Obviously, there's more than 5.
There are many words in here that have more than 5 letters.
And there are thousands of words so it's not this list and so it's more like looking for a needle in the haystack but it turns out, it's with some proper tools, it's a lot better than a a a needle in a Hasty, Stack, because well in a way kind of like
Michael Angelo, you know, is how did you create David? Well, it was easy I I just chipped away the stone that doesn't look like David and in a way that's what we could do?
With with little excuse me with grep and regular expressions, when playing with World, so how how do we go about doing that well, I create a little github work, workbook that demonstrates how to excuse Me a Jupiter notebook in Github that
Demonstrates how to do it, but let me just take take you through a quick example of of little
Let's imagine or excuse me let me do the right, the the notebook, and then this, will show it to you.
Alright notebook, where are you
You are just here
Hello!
Oh, we have a white screen. Robert
I know that's all I've got too somehow.
Oh!
My my thing disappeared
This is this doesn't work alright, let's try.
Oh bummer
Well, more Edit Lee, make another monitor, co-host
Click on this let me click, on this Hi, I had pre started this just to show you
But I guess my pre starting decided to die on me. My apologies
We are seeing stuff now.
Yeah, it's just taken a while to render, which is why I preloaded it. Earlier.
But I guess the preloading went poof
The best Lead, Plans of Mice and Men.
Yeah
Gang off to Glee okay.
There, we go, Alrighty, Let's let's try to launch this Binder at the same time, and while it's running well, binder is firing up
I will. I will just display it here. So this is a notebook I put together for this Kind of Explaining what we're gonna do right so in essence, we're gonna go through the search space using grep, but a few other shell, commands, Right so so a little background on
shell actually. Can everybody see that or should I make it a little bit bigger
Nick, make it bigger, if you can. Please
I can
This Gary is here, and I'm not. I'm sure.
He can't see that right now
How's that
That's that's good that's good
All right, so the first task is kind of get a feel.
For you know how big is the search space. That is. You know how how big is this hasty stack that we've got to search through to find our our needle in order to do that you know using grep we're gonna need to use the shell and be a little bit
Promoted with some other shell commands. Grep is rarely used by itself, not that it isn't but more often it is combined with other things, and so particular some common I would say shell tools that are often used with rep so we've got ls which lists the
Files cat which displays the contents of the file Wc.
Which counts the number of lines, words, and Characters in a file they're Sorting, which basically Alphabetically, or Numerically Sorts, input, lines on a file, unique which Collapses Duplicates and There's a Few other Options, that you can Add onto it to give you Accounts and a few other
things there's a command called Head, which display is only the first few lines of a file, and then there's kind of these Glue symbols, that vertical bar is what is called a Pipe, and it basically Sends, the output of one command into the input Stream, of the next
command and the Angle bracket is where it sends that output from one file into a phone, or excuse me from a command, into a file, and then of course There's Grep itself which Filters in line, based on regular expressions, which is what I'm gonna show you so the first question, is how big is
the haystack, right? So how big is our list of 5 letter words?
Well, I've got that here. There's about 17,000 words, that are 5 characters, long and that are lowercase right?
So, your chance of simply guessing, the 5 letter word on your first try is one in 17,000.
Little bit more. Right and here's just an example of of copying.
Let me see how my binder is doing. It's still thinking binder must have had a hiccup.
And here's an example of piping, right? So I can.
I can cat the words, and then I pipe it into the head, and the head will only display the First 2 words, and every word is on a single line, so therefore that's why it's displaying that so Let's, guess a word, and let's play Wordal, right so I'm gonna
Play this game, if I click on that I go here at this, there we go and I'm gonna pick my first word, my first word I'm, gonna guess is going to be a rose and I'll explain why, a little bit, and a little bit, so I type that in and I hit enter and boom those are my
Hints. So what are those hints mean?
Well, again the Greed, the Gray, is a mismatch.
The green is a match, and the yellow is a match, but in the wrong position. Right?
So if we guess a rose which is what I've done.
We noticed that the a is yellow the r is Orange.
Excuse me, the a is green the r is well, at least in my screen.
It shows up as orange. It's supposed to be yellow, and then the as well, as the e is is yellow, and then the o and the f are gray, and so what that means is a is in the right these is the right word, or excuse me the right letter, in the right position r is the right
Thing in the wrong position, same with E and OS are gray meaning wrong letters doesn't exist anywhere in the word
Yeah, binders, really really having a hiccup.
Alright, so
No, no, and now, my Github is having an issue.
Oh, there, we go! So we can turn those hints into rules, and those rules.
Will then later allow us to use regular expression. So the in essence we we can break up hint number 3, which is a match in letter, but not position into 2.
Rules number one. It's a match and number 2. It's a mismatch at that position.
So I'm going to call those 3 a and threeb. resp., right?
So if we look at those rules, we can hit say, hint 3.
A is we can select for letters that exist somewhere. Right hit one, which is really 2.
We can exclude letters that do not exist. Anywhere. So the O and the S.
We can say, get rid of those, and hint? 3. Excuse me. Rule.
3 is we can then, select for letters, for exist, at a particular position, which is our green, and then our fourth rule is we can exclude letters.
That do not exist at any position, or excuse me at a particular position, right?
So let's do number one
So here's number one
We know that the letters are in e, or in the word right. They exist.
Somewhere. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna
Display all the file, all the lines and then we're gonna use this Grep Command Grep, R that will only filter the R and We use Grep E, to say great everything, that has an R also has to have an E, so We'll, Gre for that as well, Right so these are called
Literals We're Literally lurking for the letter R.
And we are literally working looking for the letter E, right and just by doing that we reduce the 17,000 down to roughly, 23, 2,400, right and a Random Shuffling, randomly, Selecting, 3.
Lines, out of our word list we see Redo's, Nicer and Infer, Right, so every single, one of these words has an R and an E.
And number, 2, or rule, number 2 is we're gonna exclude letters that don't exist anywhere so we're gonna get rid of everything that has an O and and every word that also has an s right, because we know those letters are not in the word and so we can do with grep is we can give it the
Dash, v. Option, and that means basically invert the search.
So if there's an if it does match, you know, don't pass it on right.
So we can use the dash v to exclude o's and exclude s's by doing so we now take it down from.
What was it? 2,500, or so or 2,400 down to 1,400 words, and notice we still have words that have E.
And r in them, but there are no OS and no s's
So rule number 3. We now introduce our first, symbol. We want to select letters, that exist at a particular position, right?
So in our in this particular example, we want to search for words that begin with the letter, a the carriage symbol is a symbol that can match the beginning of the line, and since basically this list, is one word per line we simply need to match the beginning of the line which means beginning of the word the carrot is known
as an anchor, because it angers, the pattern or in regular expression, to a fixed location.
And in this case, the beginning of the line, so this regular expression, matches, all words that begin with the letter, a by doing that we take our we go from our 1,400 down to about a 140 words, right and notice now that every single word that we have here has begins, with the letter a has a
lot r has a letter, e does not have the letter. O.
And does not have the letter s the fourth rule is, is, that is the one where we kind of combine, all these stuff right?
We want to exclude letters that do not exist at a position. Right?
We know the letters R. And E are in the wrong position.
We know that our exist, but it's not at the second, position, and we know that e.
Exists in the word, but it's not at the end of the word, and so that's what's happening here and we introduce a new symbol called the dot that's what that is it's, basically a period the Period.
Represents any character, it's a wild called some people call a wildcard character, but it's a it's a symbol that simply represents any character.
So what we're saying here is, and we've seen the carrot.
We've seen the Dash B Option, right? So We're Excluding, We're Excluding the Dash V everything that Begins with the Carrot Any Character, the Dot, followed by an R
So we're getting rid of all those lines. The second line We're Doing something similar this time we're using a Dollar Sign, symbol the Dollar Sign, symbol is another Anchor, symbol, or it Anchors, the regular expression to the end of the line, so in this case, what
we're saying is Filter out the dash V any words that have e at the end of the word, or the end of the line, so with those 2 things we Filter out all the arts, or the the rs at the second position ease, at the last position and from there we are now down, to 51,
words, so we've gone from 17,000 words to 51 words with the help of regular expressions, and using grep
So now that we're down to 51, the question that becomes what's the next word.
Well, again, we can use grep, with another option. And We're just gonna do a quick analysis of the of the 51 words that are Left We're, basically gonna go through break it, all into single individual letters, and then just do account you know or a frequency, count and we can do that by simply using
the Grep, Dash, Option, and the Dash O means any Match of the Pattern that you see in in your Input, Printed Out on its own line, and then since a.is Represents a single character It Prints, each Character on its own line if we then sort that unique, it with Account, sort sort reverse it and just show the first, and
do a head. We get the first 10 right so here's a little example that explains a little bit more in detail.
So let's grab the first 2 words from our word list, right.
They're a bear, and a bearer I guess.
I don't know how to pronounce that second word but in essence, if we grade take those 2 words and pipe it into grep, dash, O it breaks it out into individual letters, a B e a r and a b e.
R right the rest of the Pipeline. That's up here, this the sort, the unique the sort, again in the head simply go through and Cluster, all the Letters together, the Unique Crunches them down, gives Account and then I Just wanna see what's the most common naturally since
We filtered for a r and e. Those are the most common.
But tid, b and Mile are what's next?
You know we then filter those, we can try to do some combination let's grab the next most common letters and and see what we get what turns out that not every word that we get is considered a valid word, and riddle and so I've gone through and quickly gone through and did did all
These turns out that these words address a breadth and a trend, are not not valid words in the world, game which's not until we get keyn l that we actually get valid Words, and 2 words that are there are alert, and and alter so if we put alert, in let's.
See, what we get.
Maybe This will Work
Hey! It's starting excellent we'll we'll move on to the game.
So we got a rose, if we now type in alert.
Oh, r and e are still in the wrong position. But now we know that all and T are not there.
And so we now have rules, or or hints, that we can turn into rules to repeat the process I'm not gonna go through the process.
Again if you want to play the game, please feel free to to grab this notebook and go with it You'll find out that you'll get an ant to an answer of 1 one word or 2 words, relatively, quickly so That's That's Kind of the
Neat thing, about about grep is that you can take this huge word list and shrink it down fairly quickly.
But one of the questions of Course is, is, how did I generate that initial 5 Letter list, right?
And the way I did that is, I actually installed the Insane Dictionary of American Words.
If we look at it. we've got. I think this is the name of the I think it's just W.
American insane. Is the name of the Package, and it is roughly, 650,000 words, and what I did is, I basically said ran this command which whittled it down to the seventeenth, so what he again, using grep which is right there so what is?
What does these things mean? Well we're introducing what is called a character, class that is the the Square, brackets a through Z We've already seen the Carrots So we know Beginning of word we've already seen?
The dollar. Sign that's the end of the end of the line, but the character class is not and What's nice about a character class is it's a way of specifying a a whole list of Characters right so we could specify well, I want you know a B. C d.
E, f, g, dot dot dot and so forth, you know I want all the letters all lowercase letters, you can do that but there's a nice little shorthand that you can simply say square bracket and inside those you just say a through z and that represents any every lowercase
Letter, the next symbol over there is or next symbol to the right is the curly brace, and that is what is known as the repeat pattern and the repeat Pattern allows us to say how many of those of the previous character do you want and so I've I've put the number 5 in there
saying, I want exactly 5 of whatever Lowercase Letter came before it.
So to read, this, I say, I want to I want at the start, at the beginning of the Line.
I want character, lowercase letters. I want 5 of them.
And that's it I want the I want it to end, and that's how I'm able to filter for All 5 Letter Lowercase letters the reason for the Dash E.
Is, the dash e is for expanded or excuse me extended red regular Expressions, right?
So there are different kinds of regular expressions, engines by default.
There's simply the basic, regular expression if you know, there was if you just had grep, that's what you get there, grep and a pattern you, you're, just using the basic, regular expression engine the dash, e gives you some extended options, and one of them.
Is those curly braces, and as I wrote down here, you can get fancy here.
I'm on exactly 5. But you can also say 5 comma, and that means I want 5, or more of the previous character.
You can also say comma, 5, meaning I want everything up to or 5 or fewer, then the previous Pattern, or you can specify start and an end so in this example, that I have here I say, to come to 5 which means I want between 2, and 5.
Of these particular characters
That's not the only way to do that. Grep actually has another.
Simple, shorthand if you know that you wanna match, the entire line,
You can do away with the carrot symbol, in the dollar sign and simply use the Dash X.
Option. So as we see here, on ran it again. I said, Grep, Dash, X. Give it to a through Z, with the 5, and I, get the exact same number of Characters
Grep comes with a bunch of other options.
The ones we've talked about. We've already talked about the extended regular expressions, the Dash, E the Dashboard is is the Basic, regular expressions but sometimes you want you know that you want to look for an exact fixed string right you Don't want a Pattern.
You'd like it is a pattern, but it is a pattern of only literals, right.
So I could have in remember the vertical where I was just you looking for the literals are and and E.
I could have used the Dash F Option, and the reason why you'd want to use the Dash f Option.
Sometimes is that so sometimes regular expression, engines can be expensive as in computationally expensive, the F can speed things up.
If you're just looking for an exact string the other reason to use the Dash App Option to use for fixed spring for fixed strings.
Is. Sometimes you are actually looking for what would normally be considered a pattern. Right?
So you're looking for A dollar sign, or a carrot, or a dot, or what?
Have you and you th there are ways to right, regular expressions that can handle that, but that can get messy really quick.
So if you're looking for a dollar sign, for example, in your look, you want to grep, through a pearl program, and look for a variable called Dollar Foo you can just say grep, f dollar, Foo, and it.
Will find the Dollar Foo. It won't mean the end of the line, followed by food.
And sometimes you want to go the other side. You want to do some really fancy, stuff.
Perl is known for its fancy regular expressions.
You can do all kinds of stuff, and Grep has an option with the Dash P or dash.
Capital P. That allows you to go in and do some pretty fancy stuff.
Look ahead, look behind Conditionals, all all kinds of crazy stuff, for fun, go ahead and and in Google for those, it's it's, it's Entertaining reading, to do, the the Pearl, Stuff, but extremely useful, regular Expressions, when you when you need them the Dash e Option.
Is optional, or optional. If you have a single pattern that you want to match, but the d yeah.
Dash e Option comes in handy when you want to have specifying multiple things.
I want to have an or you know I want to have this pattern, or I want to have this other pattern.
You can say dash e pattern, one, dash, e pattern 2, dash, e pattern 3.
And so forth, alternatively, you can take all your patterns, put them in a file, and simply say dash, f, and and have a look through that file, Dashi is ignoring case w is look for words, X I will show you I already showed you the Z is no
Data I couldn't find a good example of that so in in essence, my understanding and I haven't I rarely use the Dash, the but in Essence Normally, use it it searches for line, by line, but if you have a thing separated by a slash 0 or the 0
Byte, Grep, will use that as a as a line, or a yeah, I guess as a line separator.
We've seen the Dash V. dash s is no messages, and then there's a several other things.
Several other options that we can use and and I'll go through a couple couple of these examples.
Really quickly, the ones that I don't use often, in fact, I don't.
Think I've ever used them. Are these here the includes and the excludes, and the reason why?
Is because if if I'm starting to use this, it's so much easier.
Just to use, find, and so you can say find Python, and then either pipe it into grep, or or you can say find Pipe Xrx, and then and then use Grep, to do.
What you want to do. That's my personal opinion, and and and stake you're more than welcome to have a different opinion so some of these other options, some examples you can Specify a Dash m which means stop after a certain number of matches, so for example, I only
Wanna find the first 2 words that begin with the letter c.
I can do. A grep, Dash, M. 2 and it only shows the first. 2.
This is extremely useful. When you know that what you're looking for is towards the beginning of a file, and the file is Ginormous. Right.
There's no need for you, for example, let's say you've got a huge thing that begins with title is this and then there's a whole kind of you.
Know a bunch of other Stuff, afterwards, we only need to find one title, and then stop, and so that's where the end can be useful.
You may also want to know what the where the line number is.
So in the here's an example of where I say, okay, great, give me the first 2 patterns that begin with the C.
And tell me at what line number they are and that could be useful for indexing,
You may want to. You may not want to know what the pattern is.
But you want to meant. You may want to know how many times. This is. Appear. so for example, I want to know how many times is how many words are there in our word. List that begin with the letter c. Roughly, 1,200.
Related to the n which gives you the line number there's something, called the Dash B, which is the Byte offset from the beginning of the file, and it shows you where a particular Pattern Matches so for example Cowl you know I'm I'm Searching in all
The words, where where cow begins, I'm showing the first 10 call begins that bite offset 20,200, and 21.
This is extremely useful for creating an index. So maybe you have a file that has well, for those of you who do work in bioinformatics.
There's a there's a a file format called fasta and Fast Queue, a lot of Times, They're Concatenated Together and they Consist of in Essence, a Header, Line are also known as a Deaf line that Begins with a a Particular Character
At an Angle bracket, followed by a bunch of sequence information which can be really big.
For example, you know the the human genome, so we have something that's 3 GB.
If I want to get to the let's say chromosome number 20, what I could do?
Is I can first, go through and create an index of all the faster lines and it'll tell me where it is, and then I can go and use Dd, to simply skip everything right just boom go right to where I wanna be in grab it so in this example, down here, I use that Index, the
20 to 21, or excuse Me. 2221, and I say, great, Let's add 2 characters to it.
So I got, to 2, 23, I, wanna I wanna go, and account, 3, characters.
And to show me what it is, and that's how I'm able to go and just get the whale from Cal.
So the Dash B, in a way, can create an index. And then you can use that index for for further processing
There are 2 Dashl Options, one, the lowercase, L.
And one the capital. L, here they simply list the name of the file.
Again, we may not be interested in the pattern, itself, but we want to know.
Does this pattern exist in a file or not exist? the dash l tells you that it does exist.
And in our examples we're looking. For you know how many words or excuse me, which files contain.
The letter, a and of course since a was one of the including Rules.
It is going to be in every single file. How many of those same files?
Contain the letter rest. Well, only 2 of them and the reason why is because s was excluded by rule number 2.
And so we only see, 2 files that will contain the letter.
Ask, and when I say, when I say, contain the letter, s.
I mean, it contains a letter. S, anywhere. Right if it doesn't have at least one sm in the entire File.
It will not match the opposite is is. We may want to know how many were how many of those files?
Do not contain the letter, a right and again, if there's at least one a in the in any of these files, it'll show up obviously since every single, one had an a it not of those files show up and on the opposite, side, how many, how many files, do not contain at least one s these
Are the files that are left over the
The last example that I'm gonna give is is the dash a B.
And C's, and this is where we can look at something for a particular pattern?
And look around it right? So a stands for the number of entries or number of lines.
After the B. Is the number of lines, before and the C.
The capital, C. Is the number of lines around it. But before and after right.
So the very first word that comes up with C.
At the second position is Alka, and the 2 words that come afterward, are these 2
Again, this is what we've matched. These are the 2 words right before it.
And here's our match. And these are the 2 words around it
If you want to know more about Gret and more about regular Expressions, I strongly can recommend the O'reilly Book, Mastering regular Expressions, I got it years ago, and it is still a wonderful Read and gives you gives you lots and lots and lots of Details about all the different Kinds of regular
Expressions, as well as the different kinds of regular expression. engines that are available and if you want to have a quick handy book on Grep, O'reilly has a nice Book on Grep as Well in the Notebook I've Included these as Hyperlinks so if
You simply click on these you'll it'll get you right to a riley site.
Where you can get the books and with that I am gonna say thanks there's a QR, code.
Take a picture of it. If you want to the Presentation and I am available for any questions
Thank you, Robert.
There, you go.
Yeah, great.
As usual, we all learn something about what we haven't.
What we haven't learned yet
Yes, what
In your experience, Robert, what is the most the simplest use you found for gre for Grep I've I've heard some examples, and the simple thing was that somebody had a resume he didn't know what the name of the file was he was looking for the file that he had for his
resume didn't know where it was
Yeah, that is a com, that is a common use. Case, right?
So grep like I said in the beginning, you know I'm using the example of words right it but it could be a list of anything right.
So if you generate a list of something, you can then feed that into graph to to find which you're looking for, or exclude what you're not looking for so the example of resume which you can do is 2 things one is you can use find to go through and generate, a list of all the
Possible names of the files that are on your file system and then pipe that into Grep to say well, I look for things that say you know resume right and you don't, know if you had an Uppercase or Lowercase, so you can use the Dash, I
Option. to make it case and sensitive, so you can say, grep, dashi, resume right, and look for that you could also, here's a actually a good example of the Dash, E.
Option. Maybe it's maybe you called it. Cv, so you can say Grep, Dashi.
Then say dashi, resume to look for resume, and then you can act, then you can add on another dese, and say, Cv, and So It'll look for Files that are either named resume that have resume somewhere in the file name or or Cv somewhere in the File name so that's just looking at
the file. Name if you actually want to look at the contents.
You can use the take that same find command, pipe it into Xr's or actually, yeah, type into x, ars.
And Xr, Zen, basically Provides, those file names as options, to Grep, and then you can, you know, grep for things that you think might be in your resume and actually search through the files, that for for some pattern, those are the 2 most common uses, that I have
For for Grep. it's easier searching for a file, particular file, name or searching for some contents in a file.
Yup.
Yeah I would think you'd want to use a dash L angers, Lowercase, L, they like, you say, you a certain word, maybe your last name, or what that's unique.
And then just do that and then grrip will pop out all the file, names and create that show that word
Exactly exactly. And then you can look at the file names and say which ones are more likely than others.
Correct. Yeah.
Grep, you know, kind of what? I bl, well, actually, I didn't even glance over it, one of the things about grep is it it's designed to work on text you know plain text Files.
You know I've got a list of words here, a list of file names.
You know that kind of stuff. If you've got binary files, you know images, for example, or you know we're Documents or excel files, you know that kind of stuff grep will look through them and if they're just happens, to be a you know, a string in there that
Matches, it'll find it but yeah, it doesn't.
It doesn't work as well on on binary files.
Even though you can give it a there is an option to say, Binary
I wonder would it find something in the metadata in a jpeg, for instance.
Good, actually. That's a good use of of Grep.
And actually, that is that's actually something that I use.
Recently, So images, Jpegs included, not every Image but many Images have something called exit data, and there's, a tool, that you can load in Linux called Fx, I think It's called Ethics, Utils, or Ethics, tool and name Slips my mind yeah.
Something like that I've got it on here, but I don't remember the name of it
Exactly. And so, what you can do is you can basically say excess.
I'll call it X of tool exit tool, and my personal preference was I like to have it as a output as Json so I could do a dash capital J or it was lowercase, J but basically Dash, J the name, of the file and it'll, Output, all
the all the exit, data, and so in essence, you can combine these commands, right, so you know, have a fine command that Files on finds on your images do an excel that goes through and finds all the excuse me X art that then takes all this Files file names and
passes it to exif to generate the the Json data. Then pipe that into grep to find the things that you're looking for right, so that is a that is an example, of how one could use it
Like I said, it's good. I rarely use grep on its own it's always with something else.
It's something that's generating a list of stuff, and and I then want to go through and and look for things.
I mean one of the things that I mentioned, in the in the in in the abstract, that I submitted to for for the Mailing list is that Grep is actually a pretty old tool Brian Kernigan Implemented it based on oh, in the name of
The mathematician slips my mind. But this mathematician came up with this concept of Regular Expressions back in I think, it was like the early Forties Brian Kernigan got a hold of it saw it in the Fifties, and Implemented it then is that right
It was sent. Maybe he saw it simply sells it was implemented as a mapping, and then and then Brian Kernigan says, you know what this could be really useful as A.
Tool and then implemented it as a. I think that's what it was in Grep itself came out in 1967,
So it's it's been around for a while, and it's it's still an incredibly useful tool.
It's Great for Going Through and Filtering Lots and lots and lots of stuff, out of lots and lots and lots of data, like I said we
It wasn't it? What was that originally in that their line editor
Yes, that is correct?
And they use no type. So you know, had one line at a time.
So this guy said, you know this is really great, you know. So good.
I thought you know we ought to just rip that out of there and implement a standalone program.
We just did that
Yup and that's that's exactly what Brian Kernigan did. Dan
Yeah
You know, it's it's one of those tools which, we say it hasn't, the the tool itself hasn't changed that much.
Some of the regular Expressions, like I. Said, there's Basic Regular Expressions and Extended regular Expressions, and and then Pearl Regular Expressions, but other than that Gret the Grep, that you run now is pretty much the Grip that that Brian came up with 50 some Years ago.
Definitely comes in Handy
It does and what's what amazes me is is is is when when when I talk to a lot of folks that are, how would you say, that looking for things in you know i'm dealing with a lot of data and and it's I'm surprised that a lot of the folks that
That that I have already saved them. That I talked to it's it's still oh, gee whiz!
I have no idea what grep is. Wow! This is a really useful tool
Yeah, the more you use it. The more. Usually, you can come up with
Yup.
Any Other Questions.
Outside, like Everybody's out absorbing all the Information Robert thank you very much.
We appreciate you stopping by
Hey, that was great
Yeah, you bet, hey, thanks for having me and appreciate it.
Yeah, and like, I said, if if anybody has any questions just, you know, just shoot them on the on the sloop, Mailing list, and be happy. To answer them there as well.
You bet
Cool thank you
Alright, is Gary is fond of saying. This is the Gui middle of the Meeting.
Is anybody have any pressing questions. That the group may answer of course as usual, if it's on a Topic, such as Linux, or Unix, or something else technical you stand a better chance of Getting, an answer than if it's on anything else but the floor is open if you am I would like to ask
Questions, Lisa, On Mute, or Mike and Talk away
Hey, there, revise, asleep or people can't figure out how to unmute
Good!
I got more of a query than a question but I'm gonna go ahead.
So recently, I went to work on a Monday.
And then by the end of the same money I discovered that I didn't have to go back on Tuesday because they let all the consultants go.
So I'm out looking for a position. I know Linux and Pearl and see and I'm interested in all the stuff for everybody Else's interested that's a in our group, so if anybody, knows, of Anybody who's looking for somebody like that get in touch Thanks
I shoot did you see those jobs? I thought I thought you set your heads up.
Was it last month, I think over up at going
I think I recall, seeing that yeah.
Okay. You might look up in the archives. And you know, see you know, just ding them.
And and say, hey you weren't in a position back last month.
Just wondering if anything is you know, you still have opening yourself
Okay.
I was to put my glasses on. Now, I can see it
Alright.
I think there was a follow-up note from Boeing that said that they were extending the openings on the time Latin was open
Yeah, but I don't remember you know when when they extended them to
Anyway. Jay, it's it's worth a ding. Cause.
True.
I I think you've got you got a security clearance right.
Yeah, as far as I know.
Okay, well, as long as it's a recent one that would be a big heads up for
Yeah yeah
Okay, thanks.
Sure.
Anybody else.
And Announcements.
Alright Let's see announcements. Thank you, Stan
Take Gary what do we have lined up for next Thursday?
AI,
Do. You remember I remember sorta kinda Scott Granman is going to be talking about some 8 some are AI stuff
Oh, hey, AI Chatbot or something like that right
Yes, and I'm seeing more and more, that's stuff all week long.
Last 2 weeks. It just seemed like, it's really starting to come to the top of the the pile.
Oh!
Yeah, I, I I, post, a thing to discuss a while back the same kind of chat thing.
Was given access to the Wikipedia entry on Linux. And it would talk about linux
Yeah, well.
Actually kind of interesting
Although it did make me wonder if it was really 2 guys hiding behind a curtain
You never know they're and there's a recent well, not too recent there's a in 2,008.
There was a movie done called X Machina, which
Which was kind of weird, but it was good
Yeah, yeah, that it was essentially that Turkey, about the turing test.
They and a guy had been brought into tried it, determine if this robot was headed develop self awareness or not
Yeah, I just, I just recently got that from the library, and it was pretty good. Movie.
I would have done a different ending. But then I'm not an author, and I'm not rich.
And playwright, working in Hollywood, no
Speaking, library, you
So, so in today's day and age, we'd come up with a reverse during test and instead of proving with something is actually good artificial.
Intelligence, if you can.
What happened? Gary, you went away.
Hello, Gary!
I I can guess what he was gonna say, instead of proving that the computer has artificial intelligence
Is it false artificial intelligence? Can we prove that
Go ahead, Gary.
He's been like that all day. I'll be
Yeah, technical difficulties, anyway, my my thought was instead of a turing test it.
Maybe we need a turing test for humans to make sure, they have enough, intelligence. To yeah, server public office
That'd be fun. Give that to politicians
Yeah
Yeah kind of like the Mcnamara 65.
1,000, Right
Oh, boy!
Oh!
When I was in nam, I got to track those guys, not a not a clue.
I I am just relaying what I heard. And if they take issues, I will have pass out crayons later.
Pretty Situation.
Right. You always have to ask yourself, wait. Was I one of those guys
Yeah, oh, well, anything else?
Alright, and by knowing having it the string on the calendar, that we should talk about
Barry just posted something about an hour ago, or so some kind of meeting.
I didn't read it. I just released it. So I don't know.
It's out there Ww, sloop, dot or slash calendar.
Will get you right to our calendar
Yeah
Yeah, this, is.
Watching out, there's actually an open AI Pack of That's going on this Week and with with Scott Doing That Presentation next Thursday, on that AI, tool ice Forget it Beat Interesting, that the Fact that doing that open AI, Hackathon this Week.
Yeah
Alright Well, unless there's anything else we? Can we can chat, about I'll turn the floor over to our
King Pooh of the Calendar and the Back end.
Stan, Rycart, one of our old time members.
It's been around for gazillion years and we're damn lucky to have him, because he does you know 95% of the stuff that nobody else wants to do.
And Sam's going to talk about the history of a perspective on land.
That is going to include fun, facts and things that as Techie heads.
Thank you. Lee, okay, let me. See. Now, I gotta find the buttons. Button Button Who's got the button I'm gonna share my screen.
Or try to share my screen.
Walter Hades
Okay, entire, And I can't spell. Oh, that's out of the question.
Okay,
Forgot where it's going here. Okay.
Look Wrong Button. No, it's
Slide.
Odp, Presentation.
Those who would like to follow along. They could go to ww w.sloop.org Slash, notes, lowercase notes, dot pdf and let's say view
Okay.
As an Alternative.
My goodness, I shut this thing, down and it changed the perspective.
Yeah
Okay, I've got a bunch of slides here, and I want to
Go, to the notes.
And these, this is the labor office, output, from the from the presentation presenter presentation.
This portion up here on the notes, is the actual Screen, and these are the handwritten notes that I have in in the the document, though have a pretty picture I can throw the picture up I could say, a.
Few words about the picture. I want. To say more. I've got a whole bunch of material here.
And the whole point of this presentation is it it it evolves around a presentation.
That was was, I actually I shouldn't say steel, but I got a copy of from Micro Center, and I guess it was here 2,009 might have been a little earlier.
I think the presentation was actually created in 2,000, and 5, I'm not sure going back and looking at it, but microcenter for those that don't know is a big computer system here in St Louis It's similar to Fries, and other Cities, they before the Pandemic lack Lockdown they did
Prettyations, and Training Classes and Perspectives, and they actually, for a while or did some training on or presentations on what Linux was and I thought it was a pretty good presentation because it it approached things.
From a a, point of view of well, not point of view of the perspective of of people that were not really versed in technology, a lot of and and I See, a lot of that and I, Appreciate that because I, like people that that wanna learn about Linux that Aren't, really that technical
Proficient. Okay, So what? What I want to do here is is get people to participate in this presentation.
And improve it because there's so many things that has been. I've been in in the field for so long.
I've forgotten all of things, that that I had to learn way back when or about different things in the presentation, normally I do a welcome screen, my name, and my email address and then you know a little more Fancier, introduction and I would include a picture of myself, there, and right now I'm involved
here, with our new Linux Linux user group, and it's supported by the Slug St.
Louis, Unix Users Group, as as a number of Brothers are.
Yeah, kind, of all about me, a little the presentation there, My background.
I started back in in the previous century Years and years Ago and
To not too much about, me, but I I appreciate the the different kind of perspective of of I've done a number of intro to Linux presentations and the way I'd gone about it is quite a bit different but anyway, this is a to be thrown at somebody that I kind of look
at, the the participants, that that normally come in
And this started years ago and a lot of the people I originally saw, they they had been using windows, 95, or we something, you know, even further back windows 11
Or now another windows, 3, dot, 11, and before that, and so a lot of them didn't know a a lot about Linux, but anyway, Linux, is a is a unix like system that was developed by Linus Torvalds out of Finland, and he developed it originally
As a free operating system for yeah, Pcs x, 86, based personal computers and since then has been ported to A lot of other operating systems.
It's a now is is the leading operating system on.
On servers and across the Internet, other big iron systems. Such as mainframe, computers and supercomputers.
The top, 500, supercomputers in the world are all running Linux.
Now that is only used on a less than the number of varies between 3 and 1% of desktop computers, across the world but that's kinda hard to measure because they they most of Us, being measured by sales, and a lot of the people that install linux, on their
Pcs, they're not being counted. They're there in various attempts to to account, Linux, Users, that this kind of hard to how do you do it anyway the basics of Linux introduced to to people, that are not really preferred Persuasion and
The idea, is like Dos and Microsoft Windows, or Apple, Mac Ghost in it's an operating System, and many of these people don't really understand what I operating system.
Is and just for you to know, there have been more than 939 forms of Linux, available since it's inception.
It's the Distros, and currently there are 266 that are actively actively being developed, it's often Complained.
This is why there's so many different distros.
Well, you know it's a it's free and open source and anybody can make one of these things is to have the skill and you know, I I throw back the question
You know why are there so many pictures, in an art museum, you know, if you want to go buy a car do you want to get a forward, or chevy or dodge, or yeah, and lamborghini, or what you know it's why why be limited, there's a
There's a outfit called or a website called Distro Watch is Tracked, these numbers back in that 2,000 elevens, there were only 300, and 23 known Distros, and they were Tracking 285 of them it was quite a few of them have come
And gone since, then as of this year, it's actually last week.
I went and counted everything 939 known and currently 266 Designated as being Active by Distro watch the okay, oh, as we go along, if if somebody has a question, of something that's they think should be changed on these Slides or would be a better, thing to
To add and include in it. I'd appreciate the any comments there, suggestions as we go along here.
Okay. Now, what is an operating system. It's a
It's the master control program that that is between the hardware and the applications that are run on the on the system, it Manages, the Internal Function and it Controls the Computers, operation, and it gives it Manages the Resources to other running programs yeah it's the earliest operating system
simply provided a standardized way for the software developers to write the programs which is do not require a specific version of the program for each Hardware configuration, if the program had to write everything
To deal with the hardware from the from his application down to the to the smallest element on on the System. Every program would have to be completely rewritten. So the idea of the operating system is wonderful because it takes a lot of the work out of of what has to be done
And a lot of non-professionals, the amateurs and the Beginners, and the Home Users, and so forth, they really Don't Understand of the Numbers, Involved with With You Ask them how big a System you have well, I say, I got 200 and 80, GB, well, is
You know that
And sometimes I want to know how much hard drive space they've got.
Sometimes I wanna know how much RAM they have. So just diagram.
Here is is something that a lot of people have never thought of those people have not thought of before.
At the top is the CPU, and at the bottom is the hardware, and in between is is how things are controlled.
You know, and I'm I'm you know learning that correct terminology is important and is necessary for getting support from the community community.
You know a big question. I have here is what should we be saying. Here.
You know, is is it just sufficient to have this diagram or and and it's kind of a general statement that the people need to understand that if they when they're asking for help.
Sometimes they have to give give details, relating to RAM or hard. Hard.
Disk, storage, that kind of thing.
So, so, why do we need the O the OS. It's it's really it.
It makes allows the the computer to be Multitasking it's made possible to to pass the the the Workload, back and forth, you know, each install program, otherwise they'd be fighting one, another Constantly, for hardware Control making Melting tasks, and impossible
So far, does does it seem. Like this, is a a a good number of of thanks, to ask or actually present to people that that have very limited understanding, of of computer, hardware, and and what the operating system, is and so forth no a good question is how would we go about picking an OS well you'd.
We normally don't think about over to you, Stan
Be interested in the compatibility and the Features, and the cost and so forth.
You want to know about the the compatibility of if somebody was transitioning from a machine that they had, and they were running safer example, such as thing as Microsoft Windows, 10 or something like that you'd want to know about the computer, hardware and you know and some of the system.
Interfaces, in the networking, and so forth, and they'd be interested in compatibility with the specific application software that they had.
Okay, if somebody is is running a program to to keep track of their postage stamp collection, he'd probably want to be able to run that same program over on Linux, if He was moving over to linux oh, and you know you'd be interested in the the Operating, System Features and and
And special features, and so forth, and of Course, cost purchase, price, and Availability of Updates and and and licensing Issues, and so forth, okay, Factor there is is selecting the the operating System is the Availability, of Application software I mean the bottom the really the the the thing is if they can't run
An application, they may not come over to it, or and won't you know if they can't, if they can't find an alternative, similar, or are completely comparable application there's no point.
In them coming over because they can no longer do their work
Now open source software is a kind of a new concept. And There's key points to it.
And it's free for acquisition and redistribution.
Well, actually being free of cost. Is not the most important. Point a lot of people focus on that, but it's not really the most important thing
The biggest difference in the development of open source software is the way in which communities of developers pool our resources to create and distribute the software source code that's that's how it all got started was it, sharing that source code and It's, Very important, these these particular Points are to to What's.
Known as a free open source software
How do we use an operating system? Well, it can.
It has a user interface of some kind to accept commands.
It can be a text based system or graphic based system.
You don't have to use a text based system. There's some people think that Linux, it requires you to to use the the command line that the text based stuff really in the last couple of years.
There is extremely little it has to be done the text base.
It can be entirely with the graphical. Now, what what people don't understand is that when they seek help, sometimes they go to a website, if they're running, safe, for example, on boot to linux or whatever and they asked for i've got something that's broken how do I fix it
Well, the person on the other end is not gonna say, go, click, this and go click, that and go click this they're gonna give you if there's an a an easier solution with the command line that's what will be presented and that's something that's not familiar to a lot, of people
And to note, there are analytics, distros, distributions that look very much like Mac OS.
And there's those that look very much like Microsoft Windows.
So plus they all still have that command line, and the command line is actually yeah, the commands that are used at the command line.
Everything there is used to build that graphical interface
Any recommendations on the slides. We have looked at so far
Anybody awake
Yep.
Okay, I, I, just
Yeah, I gotta gotta find you on, re, but understand.
Okay.
Who knows where it is
Hmm.
Okay, I see. We've lost a couple of people. They were primarily interested in in Robert's presentation.
That's good, that's good and still are. Some people are still here they're either massacre, or they're, maybe interested in what a, a, a beginner, or what is Linux you know I I think of I see one name here, I had not recognized so maybe that's why, they showed
up what is Linux. But that's what this purpose of this presentation is for
And then the next phase is is talking about Linux distributions.
It's just
There are many of them. And I'm gonna just present a very small subset of examples.
Here and I run across this quote from Jesse Smith, the a Primary At Distro Watch, and he says to my mind asking if we have too many distributions is Akin.
To asking if we have too many works, many novels or too many paintings nice, say, our movies, are cars, or trucks.
You know
Whatever.
Hey!
Well, they didn't face that problem in the old Soviet Union
I guess not.
There was the approved version of Whatever
Yup.
Let's see where that got him.
Okay, going back to the numbers, currently they're 266 different active forms of Linux and then those are distributions are known as distros They're based on 1 one of several core versions.
And it's very convenient or easy to compare distros by going to distro watch.com.
Is they usually differ in in their graphical user interfaces exactly what they look like.
You know, it gets stuff. That looks like pretty flowers and other things that look like unicorns and then stuff that looks like we windows, and Macintosh.
There are there are distros that look exactly like those are are very close, to all this, so that so they the technique, or the from the method of Navigating to the graphical.
Is very similar, what they may be used to, whether they come from apple, or where they cut from Microsoft.
There's a One, Distro, Linux, Distro called Zorin, I don't particularly like it, but but it it looks one of the very last Time.
I really did look at it. It. It. It looked exactly like
Microsoft, Windows, 7. And I think that they've since developed a version that looks like Windows, Tanner, and whatever but that's all a moving train so and some distributions, function, differently whether they are in the Cloud or Servers, or or or just strictly, on the
Desktop
There are different kinds of the different categories of graphical environments.
They some of the major ones are what's called the Null model.
Then there's a Matte which is is directed at an older version of the Gnome, Environment, and there's Kde K Desktop, Environment, and then the thing called Kfc E and There's, a Multitude of of Others, There's, quite a Few of Them, They're All
Different The first example I looked at is one called dam small linux and I haven't looked at it in a while, but it it it's designed on a to run on a really small system, it it I thought I had the numbers in here but
Used to come on a business card size live CD, and it'll.
It's not that got that much bigger, but it has all of all, of a lot of major tools, and so forth, that are really useful, and it, you know you could see, there is it's got a kind, of a start Button, thing, Down, at the bottom left and this got Icon ones up for different
Applications up, on the on the background of the presentation screen, and when you click on something that comes up with a window, and so forth, it's got all kinds of things like some of the Richest richest, of of it is even left out it's, not as Flavorful, I guess as other
systems. But you don't have to again the advantage. Here is you don't have to use.
A text based interface. You can use a graphical thing.
You know, and this, is for running on a real old hardware.
Or the other way around Stan.
It's a what did I say?
Now, you said you don't have to use a text based or 8 90% of the machines.
I use. Don't have a gui, and they don't need them.
Yeah
Which means, there are lots lot easier to back up and maintain
Yeah, I, sometimes, I get to rattling. I don't know what I'm saying.
So thanks for correcting me
Cool. Yeah, if you if you run a lot of servers, a Gui is is not your friend.
It's just sucking resource like crazy.
Oh, yeah, what the but the the th, this this introductory thing is for is not for people that are gonna.
Be in this server room they're not gonna be running those kind of machines.
Yeah, you're right.
This is for people, that and this, so the point is is this is talking about trying to get a across the the Variability of the different Distros and it's just a couple of examples.
And it's this damn small Linux is frequently used just as a a Boot Linux.
It's it's it's comes off of a flash card, or thumb.
Drive kind of thing, is capable, of Running On Legacy, Pcs that's that's, the point of it, for more than anything, is as an example of one Kind just one out of the 200, and 66 still Active Distros, and then Another, One called Puppy, Linux, this
Is also very small, And again, you know, the Pole point is you don't have to use these these people that are coming over or are interested in maybe coming over considering it it.
You don't have to use a text based interface.
Okay, it's all a graphical, thing, and
And I just checked on Wikipedia this this month, actually last week, and it runs well on low Npcs.
Even those with Lesson 32 MB of RAM, I mean good.
Yup.
Could you even buy a machine, that small anymore, a PC, you can't they're all the standard pretty much.
Yeah yeah
Now is is everything comes with either 4 GB, or 8 GB, or RAM, minimum you know they're not talking megabytes anymore, in a in a course some of the people that are are a lot of people I have seen come over and what we in the
Past, had seen come over to one of the that, no, absolutely nothing about Linux is they're running.
You know, some a couple of years ago, they were all run windows, 95, and a couple of them occasionally, you had some people, running microsoft, 3, 11, you know, some really old stuff, you know, and in the last couple years, a lot of them, were just been running windows, 7 and they
Didn't want to go to windows, 10, you know, and they were just, and it was and a life, you know, by 2,014 and no longer any security updates for that kind of stuff,
I still get
Sir.
Well, Stan, if you're Targeted Audience, is someone right?
I see you
And this is Louise, the I'm the only woman on the call, so if the target audience, is someone who maybe was given an old computer, and they can't run stuff, and now They're, gonna Try and go to Linux, what is the Easiest, Distro for a Non-technical Person, to
Install I mean, I think that's what I would be going after what
Oh, that's I've got a suggestion further on down, so that's a good good point.
Okay.
Good point, then, this is just covering I got 47 slides here, young lady.
Well, I'm not that, young, but Vicky
Yeah
Okay, but I tend to rattle a lot. And it's it's rare for me to have a presentation at less than 50 slides.
You know
Okay, but I took this and adapted it from what was what I got from a micro center, because I liked it because it was a much more rudimentary kind of approach to you know to throw this at somebody that really doesn't understand?
What RAM is it really doesn't understand what a hard drive is really doesn't understand a lot of that hardware that is behind the screen.
You know, and this is giving them kind of a big big picture of of just.
Well It's a a a just, a glimpse of how extensively extensive, and how vast the the Possibilities are under Linux, this
Yeah, this is just another slide. Here, uses moving from Microsoft windows to those Linux issues.
Easily, recognize many similarities to the Microsoft Windows Desktop that's the important thing on this slide.
Right here that it it looks familiar, traditional kind of thing in in a lot of respects.
I think And yes, we'll get to something.
And the most popular one, or at least they claim their the most popular because we gotta remember boot 2 is run by a cook at a company called canonical and they're owned by a billionaire, that actually bought himself.
A ticket, to ride, a rocket and circle the planet they they have a a marketing section, in your company.
So if you got money, you can. You you're advertisers can marketing can claim that it's they have the best.
But just by they measured it. They're the marketing guys measured their there, version of Linux.
And it is the best one out there. Just ask anybody in the marketing team.
Okay.
I'm used to Bunt, 2 for Years and, I've got to give them credit.
Give you downloaded. It'll install on I've never seen anything.
It wouldn't install on and hmm, you can upgrade it to your turn blue interface, if you like set it to automatically upgrade and chances are.
You won't even realize that it's doing it.
Right.
They really got that part of it worked out
Now they, they at A previously, they had didn't have very very strong representation in the Server market, but that that's been improving lately.
And I I went to them. I started that they are our newcomer Linux group in the year 2,000, I think it was November, 2,000 and couple of years later at the time I was Using Red Hat Fedora or Whatever at the a Couple of Years Later they you
Boot who started giving away free Cds with their restaurant.
Wow!
I got a bunch of them, and we were giving them out and everybody's use them.
And it was very good until they went to this thing called unity, and every time.
I say that word. My blood pressure goes up 10 points so I don't want to say it again.
Okay, I didn't like it. So further down the road
Do they still use it.
They abandoned it, but they've got some guys that are still trying to keep it alive and in the back. Corner.
And I think they're I think they kind of still want to go to it.
The idea was that they wanted to put their version everywhere on a tablet, on a phone, on the desktop, on a server make everything look the same everywhere.
I didn't like it. Some people hate it. Some people.
Loved, it. Okay, so, what I did. Let me let me go down a slide.
Here, before we get there, once it once used the the genome version 2.
That's when we started adopting it and at once.
But then they went over to this thing called Unity desktop.
That was a gear to Newer, touch screen kind of things, touch screen Pcs and touch Screen on your smartphone, that kind of thing, and like, I said they claim to be the most popular Linux, and That's, just ask their Marketing team okay, they have a number of different Versions they and
They did have at one time, a thing called a event ebu, but that's now default.
It was primarily designed for supporting schools, education, people, teachers, that kind of stuff.
But There's, then There's Kate, Kbone 2 and Excel, Boot, to a different kind of Graphical Environment, kind of thing classical Stuff, Whatever and
I was using anybody here, using any of the in boot, to stuff kay boon to exponent to anything, similar Votie whatever.
I have no idea I'm looking for a suggestion to to replace this entry.
I've got here for E LED Ubuntu.
Crickets, crickets, no suggestions, moving right along which led
I I I see a bunch of servers, but they don't have guis on
Okay. Yeah, okay, anyway. Then I moved along to when they come up.
When they came up with the unity thing, I quickly abandoned ship like a rat.
I mean and with higher, end, low tide, it it says Linux.
Smith has a goal to provide a more complete out of the box, it's working experience.
And they've they've had that, and they've kept using it.
And they they include they're not completely. Totally open source.
But they do throw, in the the ability for you to to gather the codex, where you can.
You can use to to play all the sound things, and Cds and Dvds, and that Kind of Thing and Again, It's.
You know it's you don't have to use a text based, set, but it's it's there, all of these distributions behind the Scenes.
You can get to the command Line and do all the stuff that that and you can assign one of these distros, and you can, behind the scenes, you can ramp it up to do the same kind of thing, the major servers, do you can make the web server out of you can make a
Database over out. You can make a and a storage device.
Log logs, files it's it's it's all got that same capability in the background.
Now Linux meant one of its things. Is it uses the repositories of Ambu to so it's it's under the covers.
It it essentially has the ability to Pull in all the Applications, Files And and the and the Libraries and Stuff, Right or from the source code and there are Repositories of of Boot to So
It uses, those those software repositories. It uses.
Now they they can come in 3 different versions. I prefer the mete, I you know, and I highly.
Recommend Linux meant for newcomers. The true Beginners.
Now the preference is between the matte and the cinnamon and the X Xfce is primarily, what it looks like.
Okay, and that and they are much more familiar in traditional than the Newer, boot to and and this variance, I think it's Oh, Yeah.
Mike I highly recommend Linux men, and I but it's not the only thing that I recommend when I talk to people, if I get a chance to talk to people like you, know I need to find out what their use case.
Is what and what kind of hardware they're dealing with, and and a lot of things
Remember for a couple of months Back Rudy Tyler did the thing where he got he was in dealing with
He he actually installed A Linux mint, and he was using that and and and to do a graphical games on on a Linux file.
Well, if if I'd have spent some time with individual time with him I would not have recommended Linux men, I'd have recommended at the time Pop oh, yes, sure that the the Distro this done by the Windows 76 people that is much, more
Aligned to running Linux games than any other distro that I know of so you.
Know there, and there's there's different use cases and and but for the as our general rule of Thumb, I think Linux, Mint is the best use for as somebody that's new to to Linux, and then then after 6 months, you may not need that anymore, if you if you're comfortable, with
it, after 6 months. There's you I could, you know, say, start looking around, this stuff is free.
Okay, there might be something else that is more appropriate.
But I just think that the the community, and the environment and the structure.
There is very much lined up like a traditional, and the the difference between the the Cinnamon, the Matte, and the xce is
Some of them are are less, hardware, intensive, or
They they Less demanding on the Hardware matter of fact.
I think they still reck they recommending, I don't.
Think I put it here, let's see
The I think the Mattee, our new are in the the Cinema, and they they recommend to gigabytes around are required they say, require 2, GB, of RAM is Required for the Current Version, of Cinnamon, Version of Linux Mint for
The matte. It's the current. Version is requires one, and they recommend 2, and then xfce is a little less demanding.
Well, you like I said, you know anything
Anything. That's that's that you buy now is got you can't buy a machine for unless you go looking specific for you can't buy anything right now for less than it has 4 less than 4 GB, around yeah, I I run 3 3 machines.
And they've each got the the one. see, I've got 2 of them that I run all the time they've got 2 GB of RAM, I my main workstation has 16 GB, RAM I got another one It's got 4 GB
Around and I. I work between all of them and the one with the 16 GB, what my Primary Workstation, I do Virtual Machines, on it with Virtual, Box, and on All Kinds of Stuff I.
Got a Laptop with with 4 GB of RAM Vermont, I think the bad.
I think it's got 8 GB.
I think but I got a couple of laptops around here somewhere in them that I'm prepping to to give to a friend that they've they've got less than less than that I think couple of We've got 4 GB and a couple of them.
Have 2 GB, but they, I think that they will will function with Linux meant one version, or another
But that's my prejudice on that
That's already installed. They most of them have no idea how to install.
Okay, now, here's this slide. I need a little bit of
I guess comment on the examples. Above there. It is, you know, a system to come preloaded with Linux and over on the left of have listed some, in the past if there's been there's been that the Asus Epc machine was no longer available it was pretty underpired at the
Time, and even when they came out with it, if you know and a lot of people, bought it, and they think well, it runs, but it's not windows, and and you know there were so it it was just out there on the market there, was a lot.
Of people had bought those things from Walmart, I think of all places, and they brought them back because well, I they thought it was a cheap, machine or a computer.
They didn't know they didn't know that it wasn't windows, matter of fact.
They didn't know what windows was. They just knew that they it wasn't like the the PC that they had before.
It wasn't it was just cheaper, and it was different.
And they had no idea whatever. And there are, currently
Excuse me for a second folks. I got a door to open
Sorry about that I'm back. I had a screen door.
That was blown in the wind, anyway, I was always saying that on the left there it talked about some previous machines in the center, it lists, some of the machine machines that you can buy there, are some companies where you can buy pre loaded Linux Dell a major Corporation, They've in over the
Years, of of Provided, P. Laptops, and Pcs.
That had Linux, but for the most part it's been very difficult to find it on their website.
You had almost no, that they were selling it and I.
There'd been a couple of times I've gone looking for the darn thing, and couldn't find it, and then at Other times.
I've gone and was able to easily find it. It just seems like it.
They were waffling in the wind for a couple of years.
There, and then there's a company called System 76.
I believe They're out of Colorado, they they their thing is that their pcs, they're they're, Guaranteed to Run Linux, you know and they come with Pop Linux, top OS, I think they Call it and They've actually taken over to
Primary development to that distro and they will also load if you want it they'll preload your your PC or Laptop with with boot, do you want but for the most part i've read on that almost any Linux will run on these machines because they they
Pretty much will and there's a couple other listed there star Linux and Tuxedo Computers, and and so forth, and most of those I think are in Europe and then There's, an Outfit called Linux Certified that does it there was an Outfit called
Emperor Linux. It's it's not secure, anymore.
Their websites. So I think they're just kind of floating along the the thing I was wondering is that I got this Graphic Down lower right hand corner.
Should I just check that out of there, and because that graphic is I don't know why had it on that slide?
I think it was because they had it on that slide. I'm they being a micro center, the original slide and I thought maybe I'd put in there that the vendors that provide you, with Linux up in the cloud There's, a couple of outfits, like leno and.com
And shells.com that they allow you to as a service
And azure, and Azure believe it or not
Yeah, Microsoft, Cloud
Azure! Oh, wow! That's right that's a good point, that's a good thing, I'll light on there, add your Microsoft I'd forgotten about that yeah, good.
Point Lee. Thank you.
Why can't see the graphic in the lower Right Hand Corner anyway, from Where I'm Sitting so we put it on its own slide.
Well.
Yeah
I don't know if we're at oh, excuse me, we do this presentation toward you know newbies and beginners, and maybe you don't really want to go to the cloud we would ask but to advance
Yeah that's that's true. But you know the the point.
Is sometimes to throw throw a thing out there. It you know, it's it's.
That could be good
It's got all the capability, you know, and you know as as an alternative is, do you wanna it's a way to try out Linux without mess it with your hardware, that's, an alternative, you know, but I I wouldn't I wouldn't do it but you know the somebody that had
More money than the time the mess, was something that that'd be a thing they possibly might do.
Okay, I was gonna be mean, and say, more money than good sense.
But that's not a good thing. To say to new people.
I'm trying to be nice folks, I really am, but it's not not easy, not my nature, anyway.
And it's available for disk or download. They used to say microcenter used to sell the disk, but they don't anymore.
You you can't even find a box Set of of Linux anywhere anymore.
I remember that you could you could at 1 point you could buy a box set of a boot to you, could buy a box set of
Susa just buy a box set of this, but you know, boxes were common, but anymore.
You you could just get the iso from the Internet, okay,
Then you bring it down and and and cross, the Internet and burn it to to a bootable, CD, DVD, or Depending on how big it is, and or put it on a USB, stick Okay, that burning thing is that's, kind of the hard part it's.
Not a it's not a it's not a exactly a copy, just copying the file, the Iso file to to a DVD, you you get a a coaster, it just doesn't, work, that's, the hard part, right there.
And used to be, you know, a lot of lot of people say, best to work with both world, so Dual Boot, Well, I don't think that's the best way to go about it you know Linux can can usually be installed and it's.
Still can and what is called a dual boot mode, I mean.
Actually the the Install Process. A lot of them will will come up.
And say, Hey, I see you've got Microsoft windows on this machine.
Do you want to blow that away completely or do you want to split the disk in half or some way, and and share it on on 2 machines, and then you can run one or the other?
Kind of thing, oh, that might be a thing to do, but the problem with that you know well, it it it.
When you do that, it comes up, it starts up with a bootloader that allows you to go between one of the other.
Okay, virtualization is safer do booting. It can run into problems, especially with the Microsoft updates, these are some points I like to make and other people.
The other people have made, and have convinced me that it can be a problem.
I mean, we've we've helped people that they had installed it.
But something happened and no longer. They don't know how to fix grub they don't know how to go to the command line in 6 grub they just you know it can be very difficult if something goes wrong.
Period should not be recommended for novice users.
There are some people that say that. And I'm saying that now I mean I've helped that I've you know, and I get to say well, I've dual, booted for years, I've never had a problem. Well, good.
For you, you know I've dual booted for years, and never had a problem.
But I can I can count on well, I have to take off my shoes to start counting the people that have had problems with Dual booting, and we had to fix it at the slack.
Meeting, you know, do. I am I remembering that correctly fill or not.
We've corrected people at fix people bootloaders, right
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure of that so it's better to run it on Linux, or or Mac on a linux box, another, Linux, box, or on a Microsoft, machine, inside virtualization.
A very virtual box, or something similar
But the thing is, it's a safe to test drive with the a lot of These Isos anymore.
They they are set up so that you can run them live allowing to just run it strictly out of RAM without making any permanent change to the hard drive a safe trial method and and and by all means they they somebody should boot up a linux distro and then try out and
Oh!
Test the the Bluetooth or the mic, the microphone, the sound, card, the touch, pad, the video, camera, the the wi-fi, all that stuff should be tested, you know, there's, sometimes somebody, say oh, I loaded it and it and then the Wi-fi Don't, Work, well, did you Test it
Before you, install it or not. no, I didn't.
I just thought it would work well, it should work it in all, perfect world.
It would work. But you know, even now Wi-fi depending on the hardware, the you know, is very very problematic, and the the easy solution to that is to actually buy a 30, or $40 wi-fi, card replay, in in your laptop it's the easy way to fix
It cause all Wi-fi Gadgets, inside the Laptops, just do not work with Linux, because I'm in the Broadcom, I Think, Wi-fi Things, just Don't, Work
And again, remember you don't have to use text based interface.
If it works, fine.
Okay. Now, here. I've got an example. This is an old example from the year 2,008 of of Umbutu and what it required at that time it was for 32 bit or 64, bit Pcs, okay, and you know, and Linux will have been Loaded
On Macintosh, Apple Stuff, whatever I've never done that don't never had to don't want to but it's been done.
And we've had people in our group that have done it.
Don Alice was a Primary guy, that did it loaded Linux on some Apple machines.
Here, one at the time, the only required what? 324, MB of RAM, mostly recommended or Whatever 200, and some was Necessary, yeah, but in the Heart, Drive at the Time only Required you Have you know, 3 GB, of Free Space, okay.
That fit on a lot of machines, back, then
You know, and then then it recommended that you have that resolution with the with the the monitor, and so forth, and the keyboard and mouse, of course, and maybe a touch pad, you know if you had a laptop those sound card and speakers, we're, assumed or or you had to use
headphones, you know, CD, ROM. Or DVD.
DVD was quite common back then, and an Ethernet card if you wanted to connect the Internet and back then in 2,008, it was still pretty common that hardware you'd dial up modem and you didn't have ethernet, Mike, i'm wondering should I just take
This slide out of here completely and go to the next, one where something a little more modern like something from the year, this year, an example, the Linux Mint, now a lot of the Distros, are starting to abandon, the 32, bit PC because well, I'm not sure what Years I think just
practically everything since the year 2,005, is actually had 60, four-bit cpus, intel, and and a lot of the microsoft Systems, We're actually 32 bit Microsoft, Loaded on a 64.
-bit CPU, it was just cheaper. I don't know 4 GB, and recommended for this was the I think, the the sentiment version recommends for and we says, too big to go back 2 GB, are Required or Minimum and then of
course, most computers, if you buy come with 4 GB, now, if not 8 hard drive.
Now record the Recommended 20 GB, or they're requiring 20 GB, I Installed I've made a petition on this laptop I've got here I've got version linux Mint 20 on it I'm
I made it a, 50 GB petition, and it's only using 16 GB.
Okay, no, whatever. I guess for for slack room, or whatever of course you know, you need a keyboard and mouse, and maybe a track that you know, you sound card and speakers, or headphone, they now come, with USB, ports, and wi-fi on the laptops, and the
CD-ROM or Dvds, are They're Usually Optional, and even now the a lot of the Laptops, no Longer have any Center Ethernet, Jack in It's All Bluetooth, our or Just, Wi-fi
Hey Stan!
No any comments between these 2. These last 2 slides, any thoughts sir.
I recently acquired A. So 17 Inch macbook, which came out in 2011.
And I couldn't load a current version of Macos on it.
I've since then seen things on Youtube would then indicate well, yes, it can.
But so I said, well, Let's try Linux on it.
Yes.
So I got a a gives me flash, rife, plug it in, and much to my amazement it it was you know trivial.
I got everything. Works Wi-fi, works, Ethernet, works the Screen gives gives a proper resolution, and it runs like a chat.
I was pretty amazing. See how easy it was on a machine from 2,011
Yes.
So what I think is happening is Microsoft and Apple are in the business of selling operating systems.
And hardware, so they'll make your hardware, obsolete. And I mean apple, does that with her phones
And I've taken all kinds of old computers, the late run fine on it, but it loads with no errors.
It runs fine, you know all the graphical stuff is there I'll just on this machine.
I got right. Now. It's using about 5 giga memory.
But most of that I'm sure is going into the browser browsers are notorious pigs.
But yeah, a friend of mine is moving to this area, it's a protracted who but when she finally gets here, I'm gonna take one of these old machines.
I got around here and give it to her for a linear load, linux on, and get she was over here the other day, and she's got boxes of CD Roms Boxes them with only God knows how many movies, on him, Artwork, from professional Artists you know She's very big into the
Scottish plans, and so forth, and I don't know. Didaly squat do about that, but
Hand, break.
Cool.
There's an application called Hand Break Copying.
Oh oh, well, what she did was I I brought in she brought in a little you know a little shirt pocket hard drives.
Alright.
I think it's actually an SSD we plugged it into my Susan machine, and it's still got an operating CD ROM.
On it. I showed her how to push the CD ROM in and I had to leave the room.
I came back, you know, half hour later, and she done a dozen of them already, you know.
And she's been trying for weeks to get it to load on windows.
I said, well, it doesn't make any sense, because you know I couldn't load all the pictures because I don't have adobe Photoshop.
But you know all the stuff is actually there, but you know, and she figure out Linux all by herself.
It's it's just not hard.
No what's the mate so what amazing? What people can do give them the right tools they'll figure out that this you use, you use like a hammer, and this you use like, a screwdriver and this use like a buzz.
Yeah
Saw. So yeah, once, they get, going, Hi, some people take to it.
Like you know, like a seal in water and Others. Don't it just depends on the individual right
It always is nice to have somebody you can ask questions about to
Well, it's it's like Phil is always said.
You know what is who who what what distro should you use?
Well, use the one, your Friend uses, because who else are?
You gonna ask to solve your problems. Who better to ask them to somebody that that's using the same Distro, you are using use what your friend uses
That's actually really good.
Yes, it's always good to have some somebody you can ask question, sir, you, Bro?
That's really good advice. I've got a
Yeah, quoting Phil
Well I've got a Linux box running Sousa 15 dot latest and I'm gonna make that into a router box because I can ask Lee questions.
Right.
He's been using that distro for 20 years, or whatever
So this is a dog on good Distro. It really is.
Oh!
I I just I just got away with the from it.
Huh! I you know I was using a red hat for years and until up about Fordorf, 4, or whatever.
And They started. Starting. I started moving over to the Boot and the Linux meant because of the Newcomer Group.
I wanted to be more lined up with stuff that I would be comfortable recommending to somebody else.
Now the I I never had well I had. You. Know I I learned how to make red hat work with sound and so forth.
I learned you had to download the at the time you had to download the the Codex and all that kind of stuff, I learned did you had to go get a you know whereas boot 2, at the time, and then later, Linux Smith they come with stuff for somebody to run
Dvds to play, a movie, to play this off, the Internet, they just.
They just threw everything in the box and it work. But I got away from.
I never got into well, I tried getting into susa, because it under the covers.
But I had a significant problem with that young thing, it's you know.
It's all menu driven. But if there was something that I could not do with Yum menus.
I could figure out at the command line how to how to bypass, what I couldn't do with the Menu.
But the problem was that I never figured out. Once I rebooted the system.
It would lose my configuration changes. Alright, so I never stuck with with the using the Si sousa yes, it's a say marvelous.
It really is, it's a marvelous disrupt, for you know I'm off on a different vector with with trying to do stuff, that with more aligned with with people that are are not running servers and they they just want something that'll play it music, or they'll play, a movie
Here, or just brows, the Internet, do, their email lot of simple stuff.
It's it's a little bit, different and you know.
And now on you know I'm the kind of guy that you know I I got I set up the PC, or what our laptop, or whatever but I also got you know 3 or 4 other machines, around a house.
That I'm using as file servers. I'm doing this, I'm doing for backup.
So I'm I'm doing server stuff in addition to that that kind of stuff.
So I figured out a lot of it, and I've forgotten a lot of what I've learned that's why, I like throwing stuff at at newcomers what did I not tell you that I need to tell you what is it you don't know because you want me.
To tell you about cause. I I it's probably something.
I know about it took, and it probably I learned something. You know.
1520 years ago, or or further back, and I don't even think about that stuff any more.
So I'll second nature to me, and I find it interesting.
2. To answer, a question for somebody, this this is new to it's new to them.
They have a question. I. I like answering those questions because I have to think about.
Well, what was it like when I you know I said, yeah, I know that I oh, I remember having that problem well, it's, you know the the Solution is Xyz you know blah blah, blah it's good.
And the greatest thing in the world is to see that light come on in somebody's eyes.
When it it they get the oh, wow, that they can do this, that or the other, and get to the point where they start, understanding and thinking ahead, and says, oh, I know you know as I I get to some people that that that there, say that I, don't know this I don't know no but I'm
You know, then, that some of these guys, 2 months later, after I've shown them something, I said, they start thinking about some of this stuff, and then they'll ask me about and I said, well, you're learning it better than you think you've, learned it because you're you're now, know enough.
To ask questions about or or or realize that that could be a an area where you need to find out more so that that's wonderful, that's wonderful
Yeah, I I think a lot of people sell the Command Line short
Oh, yeah, yeah, it is.
I don't know if still around, but must have been it.
Yeah
It was before Covid, we had a restaurant. They had some kind of issues with, and when I got there, all their machines were they were from apple and a light bulb went on in my head for it Doesn't usually, happen but I I pulled up a command Line and guess
What an Apple command line looks exactly like a Linux Command line
How about that?
How about that? I think I think they use cashell.
Just to you know, just to make it look special. But you know
It's, the Bsd system
Yeah, but you know, it's not that different. All the basic commands are the same.
The only thing that's really different is. if you want to do shell programming that's a little different.
Right.
It's more like c language than bash is, but it's not that big a deal.
The other thing is if you're using a command line all of these different Umpteen 100, Distros on the Command line they're pretty much all identical.
They're they're 98,% point 98.9%.
The same at the command, line, every one of them guaranteed
Yeah
Guaranteed. That's why when somebody, goes on the Internet and ask for help, with their graphical thing a lot of Times They'll get this response, back says go to command line, and type in this and Bam it's fixed because cause I Don't know what Distro your running or even if you
tell me, well, I'm not gonna bring that up and go through all the the buttons, that you have to push to find the solution that's hidden. You know, in this menu, or that menu or whatever because they're all just a little bit different
I've noticed another thing, Stan, is that Ubuntu is very popular, a lot of people are using it.
And when I pose a question on on the net, answers pop up more on a book to than any other system
Maybe that maybe that means they're online, their their internal help is bad I don't know.
I couldn't say. But there's a lot of people out there use it, a bunch, too.
Hmm.
Oh, God, I'm sorry
I you know I used to use it till I found until they went this unity stuff here with my blood pressure again, and then I moved over to Linux.
Men, and
I mean, I do everything, on a Linux mint box.
I mean right now, I don't. I don't
I say a lot of Times I'll download, other Distro isos, and run them in a virtual box, just to see what kind of Applications, Say Donna what Neat and Wonderful things They've got and and That's, a good Way to Discover Applications, and and and So Forth
Found a number of things that way, and it's kind of Nice to see what the others are doing.
And You know, I think that mx, Linux is really good for for old hardware, couple of other things, whatever
I think, my I think my 2 Current Desktop Machines.
I. Think they date from around 19 22.
Yeah
He's not new machines, by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes.
Hi, everyone, just fine. I don't do high end network gaming on
But you know.
Yeah
No, very few of us in our in our group, as our or gamers, very few, matter of fact.
Yeah
Oh unrelated, unrelated point I watch this, one guy follows, one guy on the web and he uses Elon, Musk, Starlink, he Trails, by Sailboat, and he you know Blogs, his Travels, and what happens in Yada Yada Yada
Yeah
And he was just. He carries the star link with him, and he sets it on a deck.
It works best on a category where the boat doesn't roll too much.
Yeah
You know not too surprisingly, but he said it works great.
He's got the upload speed. Isn't isn't real great.
He says he's so he he tries to upload videos.
And but Download speeds I think it's over a 100 Meg
And we're pretty good, and the price is reasonable
Okay. That's yeah. That's reasonable.
Anyway, that's just you know, popped into my head. Sorry about that
That's okay that's, you know, sometimes is this a different different vectors.
Give other thoughts and things that we aren't really talking about and they're worthwhile, not a problem.
Next slide, talking about PC, management, you know. Most links.
This was their plug and play ready and they they run live to test the safety so it could test them safely.
So you don't mess up your hard drive they they do things like they they detect the hardware and they you know they detect the they deal with the wire, and what wireless, networking and the USB, and fire, drive you know firewire, and a lot of the you know they just this, support things like
Did digital cameras and printers and mp 3 players, and flash Drives, and Memory oh, my, you know the ability is there you know, okay, installing the OS when I can remember I'm I'm talking to to people.
That are, that are wanna be talking to people. That don't know a lot of this stuff, and for installing the OS, first thing, you gotta do if you're gonna you might want it to be safe.
Back up your your data files. And if you talk to you know, depending on the person, they may not understand that if you're backing it up, and you're gonna blow away microsoft how are you gonna restore it it all depends on how they backed it up if they use some of
That microsoft soft stuff to back it up. Guess what they need to microsoft stuff.
To restore it, and then nasty, so you gotta be careful there anyway.
Partitioning, the hard drive it may or may not be a problem, and formatting it, and then and then it goes through the processes in the installation process does the system, file Copying and and then once it's up and and running it you know it you you may get involved with the extensive
Configuration and updating of the drivers and so forth.
Huh! And then at that point, if the if the installation had had re had required you to completely wipe away what you had, you might have then at this point in restore your data, Files yeah, whatever this is kind of a I feel in the blank kind of a slide but anyway, this this
Graphical user is about the setup that talks about the the resolution of the Display, and the Monitor, and also about the the sound.
Card. The sound volume is often muted with a new installation.
I found that causing some users to believe that their sound is broken.
All the default is that they don't want to blow your ears away.
So they mute the darn thing. Well, if you don't know how to what button to click, to turn the sound up.
You think is is broken. It's I've seen a lot of guys.
You know, a lot of forum entries for the guys, to my sound don't work.
Well, did you turn, the volume up, if you got a button on your laptop, this that shows a little speaker with a plus on it did you press that button to jack the sound up it's problems like that we'll we'll bite people and the wireless cards more than anything anymore.
Can be the problem. So it's always good to test, first.
So many people will get a distro. And they'll run it.
Okay.
And the first thing they do is do the and see. If they can do the Install without testing to see. If does the sound work on this machine, there's the Thumb, drive work on this thing I mean, the the scratch Pad, thing that touchpad, does that work, I yeah, I bought this
I bought this $99, PC for Microsoft's Center last month.
I I I ran it with the Thumb drive I ran
Lenny Smith off the phone out of RAM.
And I forget which way it was. The oh, it it came with microsoft can on it, and the Thumb on the Microsoft, Tim, the Th the Thumb, the the touch, Pad, One, but I could not get a Mouse, to Work with it an External Mouse, Wouldn't, Work with
This, and it turned out they didn't ride, a driver, for the darn thing for a mouse, external mouth. It only had the driver only worked with the touchpad for the laptop can you believe that
Okay. Well.
Yeah, there's a lot of people out there to think.
The only computer is a laptop
Yeah, well, I mean, and they think that it is because it's got a test touchpad.
You don't wanna you're, never gonna wanna use a mouse.
That's crazy. Okay. Now.
Oh, well! Oh, but I found that that was with the Thumb Drive was using Linux mint 20 like Lts.
Long term. Then the Latest, Linux, met 21, written 2 years later.
Guess what works? The mouse works? Just fine, add a ramp.
Okay, crazy. Just so and A, a point. There is that that relatively, new hardware during the time of that that's something is new.
For during, when that, now that that Hardware was Lenny, it had.
It was, it was 2019 Linux, or not 29.
Microsoft was installed on that machine. It it's sat in some warehouse somewhere, since 2,019 before they actually sold it to me, okay, and And when when it first, came up
That
That touchpad did not work at all with microsoft or I'll take you back.
Yeah, with Microsoft that machine did not work with a mouse.
But after it did the system, updates, it worked for the mouse, because Microsoft apparently wrote a driver for the darn. Thing.
Okay, so drivers can be an issue, you know. So, I, I I may have kind of mixed up the the the problems there.
But I mean it was amazing, you know. So as a as the the software that was installed on it, in in 2,000, and 19, because it it was a brand new machine had never been turned on before it had the microsoft windows 10 from the year 2019. Would not work a wired mouse, okay.
Couple of days later, after I finally got to Microsoft updates on the thing, the wire, the wired mouse, would work and the same kind of thing.
Alright, thank you
Only it was a different story. I forget the exact detail. So I think I think the problem with with the Linux, meant that the touchpad wouldn't work with Linux meant 20 but the Touchpad would work with Linux meant 21 That's what it was they were
Reversed on the Microsoft and the Linux.
So which you hardware worked the newer hardware for both of them. Solve the problem.
Okay, so by test, you know, so why I've got a friend.
He's been Loading Linux Mint 17 on these machines and wonders.
Why, some of this stuff Don't work. So Bill, I'm gonna Mail, you Linux, Mint 21, so that's 17 away anyway.
Yeah
Next slide about applications, talking about applications. Now I would.
It's nice to point out that the the community development model is used to created the the kernel, and the and the Linux distributions which is a a Linux distribution is a Kernel plus an in a package Installation, Package and additional software, all that is used to
make the applications is that process is is used to make the applications
Okay, and I actually have a I need to add a link to the we've got a
Got a handout, that just talks strictly about free open source software except on the slew handout.
Page, I need to add the link in here just to have it.
Anyway, next next thing, a lot of that the Linux, the free and opens.
You know, free open source software, works well, you know it can be created and as documents it's Cross, a lot of Us cross compassible not well not all over there's.
Some stuff that works on Mac And Microsoft that works on Linux, many, many.
Quite a few Applications are cross-platform.
They have, cross platform version. A lot more. In the last 5 years.
Than than 10 years ago.
Communications, Web Browsers, There's Firefox and Brave, and about, you know, half a dozen, others, chrome and Conqueror, and Kde Ice, Weasel You know Links and text based kind of Stuff There's, for Email, There's, Thunderbird and and
Yeah, if if somebody's running Gmail, they they don't need to install an email, client, they just use the browser, and go off the Gmail to do their mail.
Productivity. I didn't go into a lot of the productivity tools.
But I did point and one to point out leave her office suite, which is a very good example of application free applications is that are powerful that run on On Linux just got riders so word Processors got calc the Spreadsheet thing got impress impresses for presentations has got draw for
Drawing and flow, charting and so forth got a thing for math symbols, and so forth.
It's got base for doing database stuff and it's a front end to other database systems it's got a it's got a default, database, that it uses.
It'll run other databases like post SQL and my sequel and things like that and that suite is is it came from open office suite, that was bought by oracle and the Developer Community, forked it and in took that software and greatly, improved it and the first first 2, or 3
Months. They they added a 160, some updates, that that oracle have been setting on, and and and it's it started moving like a fast moving train, and it's been started out of the exact duplicate and it's they added a lot of Fixes and continue to Improve it and
It's at a faster rate, and it's going on much faster.
Now it's a very and you can import import into lever office a lot of stuff from Microsoft.
Yeah, we'll just read it right in and
Other program Downloads, one of the trade-offs, for using Linux is that there's not a lot of Commercial, Off, the Shelf Kind of Application but there's, a lot of Stuff out there, on the Internet, that that's, good the best place to get it is from the disros
Repositories, because they have a tendency to go through that stuff and make sure there's no viruses in it, because they'll build it from the source code.
Okay, Linux Users can download and install nearly any kind of application.
Software imaginal, imagine it from the Internet, but there's a website that that I've pushing is called alternative to.net you go.
There you can find all kinds of Stuff, that, this that it's cross.
Platform, you know and you could say, oh, I I need to use something.
That no, I like
Like adobe, this that of the other, and it'll give you 12 different alternatives.
You know 5 that'll run on apple and in 12 that are run a Linux box, and and and 2.
It'll run On Bsd, and you know, and and Alternative run on Apple or whatever that kind of stuff.
Okay, it 2 years ago, there was wasn't that much there on this this alternative to S, 2.net.
Site. But it's a significant resource anymore for getting applications.
Now, here's a slide that I have that I've been looking for something newer and not having really sufficient.
Google, skills, I really haven't run across anything that gives you the same kind of idea.
This now this slide is from but 2 2,004 2,000
2,008, here and it talked about the the Malware Malware threat still exists, under Linux.
You know, there's nothing out there. That's completely immune
But the open source, Antivirus and security programs. Are there.
Are there are some available that that did not really that necessary, because of the Structure is A.
It's Linux is based on unix is a with a design, to be a network, system.
And it's there restrictions on what gets loaded is a lot it keeps a lot of that virus stuff, from happening, got a 10 min Warning folks normally, we at the if we were at the Library we'd have to be out of here, in 10 min but We're no longer at
The library. So we can keep rolling
So, if somebody can come up with some kind of security oriented slide.
That is way more current. I would appreciate. Then letting me know about it.
Because notice, down there is showing that the on security since that little penguin down there He's only sitting around 1, 1,% some years, is 2, some years.
They say it's 3, another years. They say no, it's not 3 it's one he's, not the low, hanging fruit.
The low hanging fruit is that windows stuff up there. If you're going to ride, a virus, or you're gonna hack something you're gonna crypto lock up somebody system, and and
Try to get money, extort money out of them. You wouldn't have am at the the bigger bigger, voice, the bigger activities.
There but that's about all I can say about this slide as far as security.
Is it's a
What are the other ones.
What do you mean, the other ones
What what are the names on those other pieces of pie?
Oh, well, there's Apple there, and then there's no
Combination. I don't know
But what what's is one, that's 24% what's that 24%, one.
I have no idea.
Oh, okay.
Let me that'll be honest with you. I have no idea.
I just found this slide somewhere, and it made sense at the time.
Well, actually, I didn't find it this is a slide that micro center had and they didn't have any specifics about it at the time.
You know notice that icon for windows, that's the windows
7, I think Icon, or maybe this I don't know.
Okay.
Then below, to the Left, There's the Mac Apple Thing, and then there's, a the in between the 2 of those is this kind, an Apple with the windows colors, you know, kind of a Frankenstein, I guess and that that Thing, down at the bottom the Gray with the with the other
is I don't know what could possibly be the other.
Maybe it's just stuff. They did not identify as one of the other
Like I said, that's the slide that came with what micro center had put together.
I have no idea where they got it. What I've I've been looking for they you know they there's a couple of different websites that used to say you know used to track how you know desktops and they said you know used to say there's a one of them a couple of years.
Ago, they said, we can no longer accurately, you can no longer say that they are numbers are accurate here.
So we we're stop. We've quit tracking it.
So they, I kind of think that the their numbers for for for linux, were growing so big that they didn't believe what they were seeing but they said, oh, this can't be right.
This no longer accurate let's just quit publishing.
It, and they did. So, maybe maybe that's why they quit publishing it because Linux was growing so big.
They they didn't believe it was getting that big hell.
I don't know, but they have stop tracking it.
It was one of the big big office. It was tracking that
You know, as far as I know. Nobody right now, is tracking how many Linux installs are out there.
How how do you how do you track that you can download one isol and and and load it on 300 pcs.
You know
You know, there are majors, there are major education systems in Spain.
They've gone over to Linux. There's the the the police Force in France have gone over to using Linux.
There's a lot of other countries that are going over to learning Loading Linux.
Well, if they got, you know, if so, and so department or or in such and such country is is doing Linux, how in the heck can you count how many distros of Pcs, are they using with linux on it you, can't they want to keep you out of their their system, they got
Things, called firewalls. They don't want you in their accounting anything, let alone do any other bad thing
Who's Who's Counting Linux, Anymore
You know
They they they count smartphones, because they smell they sell them with with the android android on him, but they counted because somebody you know they they the batteries, die, and every 5 years, you gotta buy a new smartphone because the Battery, dies or at least they're Working toward
that right.
Every time you turn around Apple is is got a new thing coming out says with people with all the money.
You're buying the new thing. Okay, I don't know who gets the old one who loads, who loads Linux on the old apple thing.
How's that being counted don't know whatever
Enough of that resource. I've given a bunch of these things here.
That's just a page, the links don't actually actually work out of this this note, Pad, here and there were a couple of others I wanted to add, I want to add the Alternatives, to down Net and the wikipedia has a List of Linux Distros, it pretty much
Lists, all of them much like
Distro watch and that Linux Screenshot, just see our Screenshot, Site, this I think it's it's not Secure.
They don't have a They don't have https.
They don't have a secure end entry into it.
Because you're not you're not interactively downloading, thing and they're just they haven't bothered to set up, a the car what do you call it the Certificate whatever the Beyond that in some ways.
They you know, I like to say you can say it advantages or disadvantages.
I don't like saying advantages disadvantages.
I like saying some advantages and something else, the the original slides said Trade offs that was sounded better than disadvantage, but I like to use the word challenges so there are advantages to using Linux, and there are challenges to using your linux okay, you know one of the one
Of the advantages? Is it costs, you know, and
That's just all that slide is there I you know, and my eyes are getting tired and I'm getting kinda hard to read that myself.
That's inexpensive to buy free and for download multiple versions different features.
Okay, we might. You might like one that's better than the other.
You know how often does it does a new new version of Microsoft come out with new features. And look different.
Well, every every couple of years, because they want to sell you something.
Well there's 266 different Versions of Linux out there they all look different.
You might want like one look better than the other, and it's safe to run live a trial before installing.
It's safe to do it. Works on many Pcs and max systems, especially older stuff.
And it can coexist. It can coexist with the original vendor OS.
If you really want to do that
The Chances and the trade offs are this less over the counter, software, and sometimes can require more complex installation of hardware and set up a peripherals but that's why we have our sponsored, groups here we Sponsor, the St Louis Linux, Uses, group, now that does
presentations. So you learn about stuff. They don't really really healthy with stuff.
But that's why I started the th this was now known as the New Linux, user, the newcomer, Linux user group.
As for helping out new people and the slack Group always almost always has a, because we never have haven't in the last 3 years.
Had anything otherwise to do. We just have a configuration Linux, workshop, help you with hardware, put your Linux on the Hardware Configure What's what's what you put on there, the Linux and so forth, a little Harder To do that we Don't
Meet, in in person, but we've we've done it.
We've solve a number of problems that this slack meeting is surprising, just by asking questions of of the person that's got the problem.
Okay, and i've used Distro to remotely Install Linux across the Internet
Using
Some, software, get, so I couldn't remember the name.
Thank you, Phil, matter of fact I've I've helped Norm Miller Install get so on remotely on a on on machines, on one, on 2 laptops, and I think a a a tower we're, completely remotely from my place, this place is he lives, in South County I live up here, toward the
North and it can be done
I'm done any questions, anything anybody like to bring up recommend.
I'd I'd appreciate recommendations and and comments, and so forth.
No kidding.
Good morning, hey, Stan!
Yes, sir.
I was looking up while you were talking about security. Oh, PC Maggie Magazine published a Survey they did for 2019 in the first quarter of 2020, so there's some updated numbers.
Cool.
There, and at that time, 2020, first, quarter, 2020, windows had 83,% of the now, where
The there's no pretty graph like you had before, but
I can make crafts send me the link to the numbers
Web? Web Browser had 15, about 16%. well, excuse Me.
11,%, in 2,000, and 20, first, quarter, android 2, point 7, no.
3, point 2. They got, 19 and 20, all of 19 and 20 and first quarter of 20 is what they've got.
But anyhow, Ios Macos and Linux accounted for just 1.9 1% malware in 2020 water.
9 o'clock on the Dot Perfectly Timed
Huh! Rich. I really appreciate that if you could send me the link it would save me.
Okay.
Looking for PC magazines. Thing, I really Stan are It's loop.org, like there well, that that's for me, that right there is worth the whole me doing the whole presentation, to get your input rich, from from finding that because I am terrible at finding stuff that I'm looking
For no matter, what search engine. I use, okay, always always have to call Phil and talk to Philip for 10 min.
And he'll find something in 10 min that i've been looking for for 3 days.
No
I hate to bug him all the time
Any, other, thoughts, okay, do do people think that this is is too rudimentary for an introduction to to Linux, I think it has this good point, you know, I mean, if you got a nephew, or or or cousin or a friend, down the Street, you know, and so and they happen to see if you're
Running this, what's this thing you're running on your machine that's not that's, not that's not an apple, is it?
It doesn't look like Microsoft, why, no, it's my it's a Linux machine.
Would you like to know more.
Get to sound like a somebody out of start starship, troopers.
Would you like to know more.
Any, any, any, other.
In a while.
Say again.
I hadn't thought of star shirt troopers in a while
Oh, I think about it all the time I I would have loved to have been a starship. Trooper.
Yeah, no kidding.
Yeah, do, jumping around, shooting bugs, dropping nukes down, a hole.
Yeah, I would love that oh, man.
Get so
Hmm.
You bet you hmm, hey? Wow, okay.
Hi, okay, I think, rich, I got your your link, your email.
Thank you appreciate it
And if you actually use the title of that in my search engine, that's where I got to it
Okay, cool. Cool.
No, okay. Next, Thursday. We have the St. Louis Linux, Users Group, with Scott Graniman's, gonna do the thing about that and I the AI saying I Forget, the Title, It's it's upon a way, or the Web Pages, It's there
And the week after that on a Tuesday will be the actually the 26 is 27.
It Buff after after Christmas and before New Years will be the next a New Linux user group on a fourth, Tuesday of the Month Figure. Everybody will be
Done with Christmas shopping and and Christmas Family, get together, and so forth, and even though the 26 is a legal Hobby, Federal or whatever following to the next, Day Tuesday You'll have the new Linux Users Group, and I'll be Glad to to that It's, all Free
format nothing particular going on. If somebody wants another some kind of presentation to talk about this one, or any questions about Linux They're welcome to come there now
Of course.
I've got nothing else, folks, you know. We got anything to talk about let's talk about it.
Lee and and and now Gary, she, we stop the recording and so people can feel free to makes night remarks about other people
Oh, Phil! That was good.
Or what? Okay.
Do that
Yeah. Probably. Pale slate. This was the St.
Sure.Louis group, main meeting