I think that's just a tagline cause usually.
Well, not in the tower. It says it's recording
Yeah, there it is legal, I mean. No, no, that's just.
The communication rules is that if you're in a two-party state although Missouri isn't, you can get serious trouble for not telling someone.
yeah, that's just our backup
wait.
You are recording them, Missouri? Zoom
Okay, yeah, there's no guarantee that old people are from Missouri here.
True. I wanna see.
I'm currently in Texas.
I think that's just his listed name honestly.
there you go!
but no yeah, Missouri is technically one party state, but the law defaults the 2 party.
Yeah, right? And who said, anonymous coward there recording at you.
If there's any quote the doubt.
But you're not a lawyer, are you?
but no, I'm not a lawyer. If there's any discrepancy about.
if phone call or video call between 2 states, the the by, default, the courts look to the higher straight standard of law.
So if you call California from Missouri and record something without their consent, That's a bad idea. Cause.
Okay.
Yeah.
that is good to know well. Oh, it's someone just anonymously record us just the sound effect.
I heard
that's probably Gary doing a snapshot of who's attending, although I'm although I'm recording with with the Linux simple screen recorder on one machine that anonymous coward.
Yeah.
Icon. And that's the backup to our zoom, recording because every once in a while we forget to turn on the zoom recording and good. If And we've even forgotten one time to I record, per capita record both phone well.
Not that that much. He was slack meeting, I think, and it was not We like we did anything with a presentation of any kind.
No us.
If somebody eating
and yes, the clicking where the camera sound was me taking the picture of Okay, how many people and were they who are actually here?
Yeah, start time. I did just talk on the phone to our presenter.
how much.
Donald Andrews, and he's having a technical difficulty at the moment, logging in, so he will hopefully be with us here with so
wow! So Wyoming.
And let's see. So you did say that we're recording Sam.
yes, for the sake of putting a header on the front.
If somebody needs to hear it when they look at the recording or listen to the book.
40. This is twins. Thursday, twenty-second of September.
2,022 Yeah, And this is the monthly St.
Louis Linux User Group Meeting center tonight is Jonathan Gruz, and the topic is is the dump.
Yes.
Lee is our host, and he should probably designate some co-hosts at this time.
yes.
Yeah, thanks to how manytech.net that rightly?
hey! I installed an inversion, a key pass on my computer today.
And what interesting I mean. You know it's got a couple of features that I like, and that's cool.
But the most interesting thing was I start rooting around just for the heck of it, and I see Keypass dot xe.
I have time, I look.
So I hit it with file and that's a Microsoft executable, and it runs under, called Mono.
That I've heard of before today
the re. That's
Yep.
I wonder? Can it run any Microsoft executable
Huh!
No.
Yeah, key, pass, is Key Pass is is runs on windows and Linux.
That's why I initially went to it because I was running windows, machines and Linux machines.
It's time, and I would pass the file back and forth.
You can do.
it doesn't send, it doesn't keep the file centrally on some kind of server.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I I got mine on my file server and you know that that works great.
Somewhere. Are you gonna maintain your own synchronization
But I'm actually running a windows executable
The problem I have with Key pass is, there's like 2 or 3 versions of the darn thing, and it's kind of hard to figure out exactly who who really the the primary there supposedly the The original, is not updated that often it might be some security issues blah blah blah
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, this one came from. Oh, who was it?
who knows and
what I normally do is try to look up the stuff on Wikipedia, and then follow the The host name that it lists.
There, but still you still wind up with 2 or 3 different version is forked.
Hmm.
still works with the same icon. Everything's hunky dory
And
The other thing they've had. If you go to the history, tab, it now shows you. When that particular particular entry was created, and the last time it was modified, which is kind of nice
would like to stick in one other announcement, and it kind of relates back you're talking about
Yup, you did. Don't know why that go off, but Mute kicked on you.
You'd mentioned Don Alice a few minutes ago. And yes, Don is alive and fact.
He's very involved with the first robotics groups.
they're the high school, and I guess also middle school groups that do robotics, teams and compete you know, one school against the other.
they're a lot of fun, and the the normal game season is still coming up.
In the school year, however, they have something. That is, what is it?
Gateway. First competition, which is an out of season competition, and what they do is they basically have been bending, You know, the summer months kinda getting getting the crap together and now here at the beginning of the school.
Year. They've got a basically a one day competition, just local St.
Louis area groups. It's in Charles, and it's on the sloop.org calendar.
The actual competition is Saturday and tomorrow, starting at one, and I believe, going till probably 8 in the evening is basically a setup day.
So they're looking for volunteers to help you set up.
If any of you would like to to go and just help move stuff around helps set stuff up, be able to see the innards of a lot of nice computer or robots, and I'm sure they would appreciate the help.
So we'll look on the sloop.org calendar, and there's an entry for it tomorrow, and on Saturday find out all the information there.
And yes, you'll see. Don't smiling face believe Don is probably there.
As I speak
the the setup day is tomorrow. Friday. It's from one in the afternoon until 8 in the evening.
And the actual competition is on Saturday.
and when is when is that
I forget the Times on Saturday, but if you want, get the snoop.org calendar just listed There
Oh, must be, miss! I'm listening so I don't see it
yeah.
No.
Yeah, I know I I I always have it that way. The ebay founded Microsoft buys Nokia
See it.
Cisco Rocketry Software Development cloud to it Delayed Moon Lost first conference.
Here it is one people. The gateway robotics challenge
I
I'm looking at the Friday entry tomorrow
Boy mine goes 11 Am. 7. Pm.
I'm at slug.org resources, Calendar.
Hmm.
Yeah, I'm at slewd org slash calendar.
so I'm not sure what the Resources Calendar is doing differently.
Am I missing something
No! Let me go back and change the earl to that one
That's interesting.
Oh!
No, I went to slug.org slash calendar, and it's the same
Interesting.
I I'm looking at the same thing and there's G. Rc.
Robotics. On Friday.
And then Saturday. There's just no mention of it.
Kate Very Robotics challenge
Whoever's pulling it up on the on the zoom screen, Stan, I believe, and it it's showing there on the screen right now.
Interesting.
Can you bump that up a little bit, Kate. I see it there.
Hi Stan
That's not what I get. One Pm: I've got audio visual engineers something or another.
Are you in right month, Steve?
oh!
Wonderful.
it shows different buttons and does on a machine. It depends on your your screen size and all kinds of screwy things
Okay.
Okay, what? What? But do not see any gateway thing.
Hmm.
I got September 22
Oh, God! No! I'm sorry. My bad
Well, that's it You Then Why, the calendar that you're seeing seed
Yeah, they, they. They have tried to steer away from them.
Battlebot thing of you know, destroying the other teams.
Yup, what kind of competitions are these like battlebots on Tv, or I'm sure not
Robot, so no, there's been thing look like more similar to a basketball game.
You know where there's a poop the they have to cute balls into our some other sort of target.
sometimes would be the robot itself, like the last school year.
They had, like a set of chin up bars. And so your robot could get extra points if if it could pull itself up, you know, by having a robot arm that would go up there and grab the general bars and pull itself up these bars but I do remember all almost all
yeah.
the years. There's usually a penalty that if you do damage to the other teams, robot, that will make you penalty points
Yeah, that's gonna be exciting. Good.
Yup. Well, that the whole battle about the things somebody spending big bucks rebuilding those I don't know who, but
You know, 4 or 5 guys get together and build a robot, and then go out and destroy it.
Yep.
Okay.
that could get to be an expensive hobby
Sometimes they run obstacle course right
And and you know the the when when I was doing It's a little bit of coaching.
I I I I noticed, or helped organize it.
So the different kids on the team, you know, concentrated on different responsibilities cause some, you know, kids are good mechanics.
Other kids are good software programmers, and you know, So hey, kind of you know what talents?
You have in the pool and and who's gonna do what?
And the this recent year I I really got a tickle, because obviously a couple of the kids need to go to law school because they they had done something funny funny in the sense of it was a different approach to doing this. One thing.
That got you points, and before anybody could question it, the you know, one of the kids from the team came over to the judges table, and you know, lay down papers and basically said, okay, this is legal because this section here the rules, the section here the rules.
sure.
So what we've done is legal before anybody complains
So yeah, I mean, you need to volunteer to go in tomorrow and help them do the setup, or I haven't looked to be honest, I'm thinking it probably is not a charge to go in on Saturday If there is It's probably you know just something.
To defray the cost of renting the facility.
so
Yup
Okay.
Yeah, it's a fun. But watch.
We're Where's the location?
right.
wait, wait.
Click on the doggone thing, and it might pop up.
Gateway, what
okay.
Yeah, I see. Oh, Event location. Lindenwood University, Highland Arena
I'm trying, and I don't get anything
I know how to cover it
I bet my grandson
There you go!
That's why I went my Kvm switch set up properly.
It helps. If I use the correct mouse
I I use either X to go or remin up rather than a Kvm switch marks for me.
It works much better. But then I wound up with 3 different things, and that gets confusing
I don't know how well it works with the zoom
Now my mouse works on whatever screen I'm looking at.
I don't know. I I've never found that
I'm never found that
And now I have done that
Yeah.
My my hardware. What do you just treat zoom like any other browser display
It's just I've never I've never explored that avenue.
Get enough trouble figuring out what I'm doing. Otherwise
Oh, I see, Jonathan, but he's muted
Gary and Stan I'm sorry to send out.
Is he ready to go, Barry? Or do you know
I believe he is yeah.
I can't get. There's a there's a bug in restore So I'm just gonna give the slideshow, and most mostly pertain to open Bsd Dump restore is deprecated.
On Linux. Yeah. The purpose of this presentation is just a heads up to show you how it works, and at the end of this short 5 min presentation we can discuss alternatives to this that you guys know if that's the main thing.
Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen stand and begin
Okay.
Alrighty. Let me lower this and hold on, please. This is Kabuntu.
Move to desktop one
Alrighty
Okay, this is about dumping. Restore a traditional units.
Backup utility.
And this screen just simply describes a dump and restore how to get it.
I'll share this up Powerpoint or
Open Office. Presentation slides was staying, so he composed it.
You can actually get it at Semi-bug, Southeast Michigan.
Bst user group, I'll post the link in the chat if you don't want to.
He bothered with linking to it Stan I realize you're a busy guy.
So the benefits of dump were that. How
It preserves permissions, ownerships, and modification times.
Now I realize that access times and Linux are turned off, but the backups can be done incrementally, and this is all from Edie.
unix systems, administration.
Okay, let me let me stop my share. It's easier
To dump the files. You use the command, and right here, can you see that guys dumb is 0?
That's the level, and give it a name, and it's on Mount.
It's going to write this individual file plus a directory at the files in the directory.
It's going to ride all those
If you're gonna do a dump on home, you should unmat home. So there's no activity. And if there's any movement significant, movement, you corrupted. So what what dump? Does is it simply reads the Zeros and the ones on your hard drive
It doesn't care what kind of formats there. It just reads the the Zeros and ones
There are different levels for dump. So here's a level 2, And the way this works this flag A.
Tells it to, tells me to record the dump dates and Etsy dump dates on your system, and when you do a net the next level, what does it looks at? That and it gets every file? That's newer than that dump date.
And it stores it in level 2, and there's there's level, So 0, which is the primary primary one.
The initial dump up to 9
This is talking about the the different dumb levels. This is from Openbsd's man.
Page.
No, Ashley; it's from Alien Fish's book.
I scan this. And Ocr did so. This for page 7, 33.
This is an excellent book, by the way, a central system administration
Is dump deprecated. Well, kind of. And so you can talk about this
It. It can't be on a moving file system. You can use it a non- idle file systems.
But with caution. So there shouldn't be any extensive rights. You could.
You can corrupt it. I guess the same would go true for tar, but I'm not sure
And this is just simply page that talks about why it should use time.
This is from the source. Forges. Dump, deprecate.
This is a good page there. So this is where natural dump looks like from open Bsd.
Here. It's a level 0. It's recording
It's logging the the a flag is logging the files to the etsy dump dates file.
And Nancy
And it's dumping home
So it gives the dent. It tells you it keeps track, and tells you how much time you have left, and then the dump is done
Transferred this many. This was the transfer rate
So this was done on Linux, Linux men
So, If you're doing it on individual directories as opposed to a an entire partition, then you can't use the incremental dump feature
This is a script that I wrote for open Bsd to automate the dumps, so I just run the script as root
And age don't file open Bsd home level, whatever the level number is, dot dump with the extension dump
Now restore is the way to restore the files and
You wanna yeah, using this command as root you don't have to be root but you can't restore an entire partition.
If you're not so, this is the level 0. It will change to be.
He.
Prompt will change. I'm gonna go ahead and show this Stan
At the end of this presentation. I don't wanna stop the slideshow.
Root will ask you to set the owner mode
Now these are back strategies, and when to do certain levels and so forth, so that you don't waste a lot.
So if you use tar, you basically off the back of the whole directory every time. And so there's a lot of redundancy incremental backups. Allow you to add to the the different dumps, so you'd have
A file, you'd have a file that would be dump level 0 and dump level one, and so forth.
And so on.
Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and try this once again, and I fortunately
Yes.
yeah.
Alright. So I am. The external hard drive routed, and I'm gonna want CD to home
Okay, I'm gonna do that right now. Stan.
Is that better, Gary
Very kind of want you to increase the font size. There
Good.
bill needs one. Please.
Is, it is is that is that better guys? Okay, So you type restore.
And for some reason there's above dump is no longer maintained on Linux.
I had this working a few nights ago, and that's why I was late I was having these technical problems, so I do.
Hmm.
Don't minus I means interactive minus F means, Use this file media cleavis
Portable Kavanaugh and the last, the date of the last dump which eyes I saved Twentieth twentieth of September.
So now you type Ls: and there's home CD.
To home, Now you're in the restore program. So it's using the born shell in here or something close to it.
Type Ls
And those are all the the files that are in there.
Okay. So I'm gonna go to
Public, and I I deleted this file, mathematical classics So I'm gonna do add mathematical classics.
Okay.
Ls: you see the asterisk there, guys, Do you see that little asterisk in front of mathematical?
That means you selected that If, for instance, you did add report by accident.
Oh, no, I added, the wrong thing. You would type to lead
Report, and it's no longer selected. Once you've selected the files you want to restore
You type the word extract.
Specify the volume system, did it to an external hard drive.
The volume starts at one. There are no tapes.
If he.
And I don't know why it's not it.
Yes.
Could that be because you're within the the directory that you're where you're restoring to?
It might be better if you just did. Absolute file pass from outside that directory.
It stops here. There's after the last update
Stand, That's a good question. I'm this is the way you would use.
Restore. So I've moved to home. Clea. You know it's restoring.
You're restoring to
Right Well.
But you. You call that program while you were when you were in Slash home
There's your absolute. Here's your absolute file path
Before I before I tried that stand I went to root needs to do, and it still wouldn't work.
And you have to run as root correct. And I'm thinking
So I don't know what's going wrong.
like, I say, it's not maintained They've added a lot of security features to Linux, which you know This is this is from the the early 70 S.
This
So
you're saying it's not maintained in Linux.
I'm gonna just do a control. C: Here.
about current distributions of Bsd
Only open. Dsd has it
Yep.
Okay.
Type the command Id at this point: Would you please
So that's how it would work
Andya Delta alright id India, delta I because in India D.
Is in delta. Okay, this is the first user great
Pwd.
What what was that?
No, it's it says slash home. But okay.
So it's it's it's just not working. I mean, if I go to do this on Openbsd, it works fine
Yeah, possibly such an environment variables not not to be set
System, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's not a waste of time. It's just we're looking at a whole bunch of stuff.
That's a a bunch of things that come into play when you try to troubleshoot, or just see the other alternatives.
Who knows, Dan. It was it was working before the updates. So I'm sorry to waste you guys time, but at least
Right. So I mean it shouldn't be this hard, right
So, if I if I do this, there's my portable Ssd: So you see, I have, like Linux, men.
They're there. Not a waste of time
I use tar guns. It
Of do an Ls face dash l on that, if you would please
Only open
Hello!
Running.
H. Gives you the readable, or the human readable Mormon
By the way, this curve other experimentation. I just tried it on A.
Mac Os, and it has. Lee and I were debating the other week whether or not Macos, even though it's been certified to be as or as unix, you know, is it still Bsd or not and so it yeah the the the dump command exists, but the
I tried, logged in to open Bsd through secure shell to show you this
dump command is now something do with Tickle. Yeah, not not the don't restart. Now we're talking about here.
Gary, I'm gonna go ahead and try to do it on open Bsd: I'm gonna go through secure shell, Is it?
Okay, So
Oh, cool!
and they already Oh, right there. Can you see that Openbsd level 0 dump
Alright, tonight. Restore
Minus. I
For interactive minus F
Now open Bsd is, and nice is the Linux one, so those are my accounts.
There's no tap. Completion.
So I'm gonna restore that directory test which I deleted earlier.
I do add
yes.
You see the asterisk? Can you see the asterisk stand
It's part of one. It extracted it so I must have had a corrupted file.
Okay, guys, if you type. No, here, and you're enroute or sudo on Linux or Bsd it's going to set file permissions to root root So you.
Yes.
Want to press. Yes, Got that
And then we'd quit the
CD. Play this, Then
Let's see if this worked
Well, it didn't
Correct.
Okay, I made a mistake here. Guys, you see what happened
Right. But what's going on here? Is it? Set it to the root permissions
You put it to you. Put a test in a test. I believe
Do you see that. So I'm going to go back?
okay, You don't use add or subtract to use set modes.
So let's go back there and do that
so they're they're all pleased. That's what we want
CD. In
Huh! I don't know what's going on. Sorry guys.
Well, no, because the no, because the permissions are read where it execute for root
Permission, denied
can you see day to test
So
I thought you were running this as route
No, Stan, I'm running. This is an ordinary
Okay, with that. No, when you do that, Lsd: HD.
And test with a slash. Is it? Does that show? I mean in some options with the displays that it shows at the end of the name it'll show like a an asterisk as executable on a slice so that's a folder, and so forth, and i'm thinking maybe
Right. So what I do now is
that
No, there's the owner is rude. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna change the route
Sorry, guys, but this is what I was testing before I came
Oh, so. I don't remember all these long passwords
Okay. So now I'm gonna go to
let's see wherever
There's there's no there's no debt.
that's all there's there stands so all it does
Adult configuration file. There's no dot dump Rc.
Nope.
Or anything like that
It's the dump or not. Don't It's a set mode.
Nope.
What it does is it set modes, It looks at the the file stored in the dump file.
It's it's the thing for setting the configurations you're saying. Does that book is that do it After you restore something, or before you restore something
So when I well, I did, we store minus I minus f that kind of thing here.
Correct: Right.
Okay, It looks at the permissions in that file.
Okay, so is this is going narrative to get the permissions that the environment variables.
Right.
But I have a sneaking suspicion that it's misbehaving, because I'm doing it through.
Okay.
Ssh! Normally, when I do it from the console at my over Bsd box, it works perfectly
What file system structure are you using at the ext 4, or what
On Openbsd. It's the original Esd 4.4 file system with soft updates.
So, My! If I do cat Patsy Stab, that's that's why F.
Stamp for open Bsd. So soft app is combination of synchronous and asynchronous rights to speed up file access time Ffs is the name of the file system.
Or W. Means Yes, it's read right. No dev means.
No devices can be on that system. No suid means, as you set, you would better excluded. You can't.
16,
You can't make any files that you would on home.
Same way with temp user, you can
The rest of these we also they also disallow W.
Or X, so so somebody gets in here. They can't simultaneously write to dynamic memory and execute.
So that's what that Wx allowed me. It's a right and or execute
Okay. It's a loud.
I I believe that's what it is
Right.
Are you safe
But you know what, stan I better pick on that
Of if it is tab. Yeah.
So there you go. Wx allowed processes that ask for memory to be made rightable plus executable.
Using the M. Map and then protect system calls or kill by default.
So
The problem that bad to my
Back to my little file. Here, Stan, the problem is, my friend.
Is that this file
You were saying, Fs. S. Foxnet, Foxx, Syria is the file structure
Has its permissions all screwed up
Yeah, I'm gonna do that right now
If you CD. Into the into that directory, or the permissions messed up
Huh!
Empty.
Is it possible you needed to put it when you were restoring?
Empty. Let me see them
No.
So when I know with you, restore at the terminal.
You need to do a test slice asterisk, or something like that, or an option to yeah, Yeah.
Okay, I just we call that up here
Yep. CD. Home. Cletus
Let me go all the way back up here
I said, Level 0
See where those 3 directories are. All I do is when I do a reinstall by open Bsd I just, do add Cletus, and it automatically adds everything under that file hierarchy and then I do extract, and it restores my whole my whole home directory dot
files the configuration files for mutt, and fetch mail.
Right.
The restore all that stuff
So there's something going on through. Ssh! That it's limiting the ability to do this.
I'm gonna I'm gonna say.
Well, that's it, Guys, I don't want to monopolize your time.
You.
That's really the my little tutorial on a dump and restore
Thank you.
yeah.
I'm sorry it came up so badly
I I've slowly Bush really moved away to let me let me stop sharing my screen
No, it's not not a problem. It's a interesting to look at other options
Is my screen still being shared
Oh, okay.
Yes, just when you're speaking
I'll mention the in the chat. Doug, Elton.
Wow! But Fs. Berkeley, Fast File system
Yes.
guys, I want to make a little announcement, Peter Hanstein is going to give a presentation on P.
F openbsds, packet filtering system on Sunday.
Go ahead!
This coming Sunday at 2 P. M. Your time one be in my time so I don't know whether that would appeal to anyone. He's the author of the book of P.
Of course, earlier in the talk Tony C. Posted to Ls and Ls Space. Dash Ld: space.com: Sorry phone
and ask where?
I will. I will post to discuss the the jitsy link
Yeah.
I was busy doing that before I didn't have much time to prepare for this.
So I'm sorry guys for the destroying a presentation.
And we will put it on the calendar
Thank you. By the way, and I I meant to go back and do this.
The they're They're about 2 months ago, maybe a month and a half ago there was a presentation on something called E, the Yeah, with it being a small.
E. And it. It looked like it was some kind of extension to the Pf. Command.
Jonathan
I think ebpf is a thing in the Linux kernel.
The enhanced Berkeley packet filter. Something like that.
But I think it's it's not only used for packet filtering.
And we lost Jonathan. He'll be back
Okay.
You can do a lot more stuff with it. I think
Yeah, it's Kinda crazy. You can write your own Ebpf filters. Right?
So in those run in the kernel, so you can write code that runs.
You can write code from user space that runs and the current all.
I think it's pretty interesting, but because you're doing that, The code that you write is has to be very limited. Like.
I don't think you can use like loops They won't let you use like for loops or anything inside of those.
I was wondering what the what relationship there would be Look on our calendar, because I remember and stuff one of our members Grip Sibel had gone to the Ebps talk, and said it was really good
Because what if you make a non terminating loop, then the kernel is gonna crash and hang, or whatever so it's like a really restricted development environment.
Wow.
Nice.
By the way, I found it It Let's see.
Excuse me, there are 2 of them. One was on Wednesday, August; the third was dev night.
and oddly
Boy, that's this is October of 2020 that goes back a ways.
That's just under 2 years from when the and talk with. But at the Central Iowa logged they did a talk on Ebpf
and
Of October of 2020,
It was it does. That was the Central Iowa log, and then the more recent One was August the second or August, the sixth, just just last month, and that was the Springfield Developers group.
when when Gary, what did you say it was
And that was the one that rich which I will compliment
Oh, do you want me to display the calendar or not?
Where, what month.
Hey? Sure, if you like. See? Yeah, look at August The second
Yeah.
Hello! To meet you. Go back and look. I had already not my search screen, but that's good.
Get back, real fast.
I'm so. It's August the third 30
Right away from from what you were saying, Shawn.
yeah, not entirely sure. If it's like just and involved version of it, or if it's something completely different, I don't.
It. It. It sounds like this: This eb pf is is different animal than via
Okay.
Like, I say, if I but figure out who to contact Springfield maybe I'll see if we can get the Ebp.
F person to speak, to say, richcible, thought it was really a good talk.
He was impressed.
October, October, the 20 first of 2020
What else? Gary? September, October.
Same topic, but that one was done at the Central Iowa load
When September
October twenty-first of the year.
2020,
you back with us
And apparently Jonathan is still boyfriend.
Mike: Good: Okay, that I'm sorry.
Just as you started walking away. So starting this comment, you were talking about this talk on Sunday about Pf.
Packet filter, and I was just pointing out, There's this other thing, E Bpf.
Extended Berkeley packet filters and which cycle had complemented the All this talk on August the third, about how good it was not.
Shawn is saying. He thinks this is a perhaps a an outgrowth of Pf.
But it's probably some beyond
I'm back.
Okay, I I I spent a great deal of time trying to learn about firewalls.
There's there's 3 types. I'm sure you guys knew this.
But there's 3 types. There's packet for filtering, and there were proxy firewalls which actually are done through a You're not gonna They're not your computer.
They're done by through a
A separate box.
And what they do is they? They're kind of. From what I can tell, they're kind of similar to network address translation, right?
So that. They're mostly aimed at restricting access to ports and not really examining packets
So, that's the that's an eating nymphs book on.
Page, you guys have this book. This is a great book to get
Hmm.
Could everybody see that
Yeah, that that's that's a really good book.
In my opinion, and it's covered. She covers these different firewalls.
Well, we're seeing the calendar
There's. And so that's what I'm trying to appraise myself of
yeah.
I don't know how to make this I don't have to make the calendar go away.
You have to click on my
I'm trying. I'm trying to shut it off, and I can't find the button
This is why we should be using jitsy. This is zoom thing is really for windows.
Well, not necessarily any better between multiple systems.
Yeah, Can you share that screen
There it is.
I've had good successful gitsy in my meetings.
Yeah.
So here I'll I'll hold this up again
Yeah.
And you guys can click on my image to get the full screen effect. But it's on page 6, 76, and apartment
Yeah, I have that book. It's a good book.
There we go.
see.
So, the the
Coverage milk platforms, but it is a bit old
So to dump is actually deprecated in Linux, deprecated and some of the other releases of well Bsd: as well.
Jonathan is away from his great Harry
Yeah, Oh, yeah, I see any golf in the background.
Oh, did they? Just to pursuing the the obvious follow-on?
Well, first off, what would be? What would be the the newer on deprecated things that would be used instead of dump. Restore?
that is an excellent question, and stand, and Lee Lambert would probably, and Robert Sittak would probably no better than me.
My understanding is what what has caused the demise of definitely restore is the advent of victor and file systems, and said file systems.
Okay, So they these are different in functionality, and dump doesn't work with them.
Okay.
And well. I had a please to give you an idea of how bad it is, Gary and I mean, I don't mean these technologies are bad.
I had a meeting at the beginning of this year, 2,022 in January, where the developer of the Zen file system
gave a presentation on Zfs, and there was assisted me in.
That was furious, that dump and restored didn't work anymore.
And so I had to politely ask him to. We refrain from castigating the presenter until the end of the program.
But
So I'm open. The Nac suggestions. They've the advantage of the the restore is, you can go in there and do Ls so, If if A.
User has. That's that on delete as a file by by mistake, you can add just that file.
Cool.
You don't have to untarn an entire tarball
That's that's the beauty of that thing.
But as far as I'm concerned, Michael Lucas, in his book, Absolute Freebsd.
Oh, no!
So if you get ghost Bsd, which is a desktop, freebsd uses zed file system Cfs file system.
Okay.
Dfs: What was the other file system? Said the cause.
And he had the advocates that you use tar. That's for backups.
No problem.
I think open. SU.S.A. uses bit torrent file system
Bt us, but
Oh, it's not bit torn, torn butter Fs.
Okay, Thank you. We
Okay, you You know more about it to me, Lee. All I can tell you is when I used open SU.S.A.
Yeah, a bit bit torrent as a communication protocol to, you know, transfer large quantities of data and maintain error, checking
And you can also do snapshots with within the file system.
That's that's the main advantage to it. Every time you do an Os Os Update, it preserves the previous snapshot.
And that was a really fast File system. Backups were very fast
That is so. We need a presentation on that gary.
We learned. That's a hell of a gadget
Okay, Hmm.
but Butter Fs is a standard file system for the root partition on Susie has been for a couple of years.
one of the main advantages of it is that what it make snapshots automatically.
So whenever you do an os up great great, it will preserve a snapshot of the previous disc image, and if you bring something, it takes one command to roll back to that previous disc image
and it looks really extract single files. Will it call out single individual files without rolling through the whole system?
Or what.
The whole Snapchat
a snapshot is a snapshot of the entire file system.
So you'd have to mount it someplace else to pull a file off right
No, it's for sure
How do you restore a single File, by E.
You don't. That's not where snapshots for a snapshot is a hey? A second.
I'm showing fear which which screen to share here
Okay.
I get to write one. Yeah, Yeah, this is a set of backups for a year.
Maintained by our snapshot, and then each one of these on that day.
This was today's. Each one has an image of all the files on the share where you want to preserve you don't grab binaries early.
I don't usually, because you know you can't restore to bare metal.
we're short and a bare metal. You have to have a program that can talk can run separately from the Os and it's very seldom that it actually you know you actually crash the system where you don't have the os so most.
Most of the versions that we maintain are for individual files like, Here's home
there's only 2 users on the system
This is my home directory, and this is an image of what that Directory looked like.
Good afternoon. If I want to go back in time
I want to go back to November last year
This is what that Directory looked like on in November of last year.
Now, if you want to be able to restore a single file or single directory, our snapshot or snapshot, our snapshot is a way to do it in my estimation, because the biggest advantage it gives you is
You can keep whatever versions you want on whatever schedule you want.
So. Say, Say, I want to file from March fifteenth of last year.
I would go to Monthly 6, which had an image as a February twenty-first of all the files in the backup
On the other hand, let's see this guy. I I didn't even use Cfs on
And let's see, this guy is butter Fs.
Now these are the snapshots
And these are the versions, snapshots, These are the snapshots that are being retained by this system.
I haven't cleaned this off in a couple of years, so you got a bunch of so if I wanted to restore this system, disk, which is a root partition to today, before changes were made I would roll back to the snapshot.
You know, if if applying Updates broke something I I could roll back with a single command.
The thing is you wanna make sure that you're only only your system files our track with butter.
Fs: because it is the best way to maintain a current backup of your operating system.
Home Directories. You don't want user data. You don't want, you know, Docker, shepherd docker partitions or or containers are shepherd you know, but butterfs, is, I think I think it's in the red hat now but again, it's what you use for
the system partition, and it's designed to enable you to roll back to any previous version.
What distro that we look at here, please.
You know, for example, there were 13 made worth of changes done today
What were you saying there? Just a minute ago I was I I was somewhere else
What distro is this
Okay, just say if it's Lee, it's open.
Open to see 19,
Thank you.
I think pretty sure other distros are using it out too.
Yeah, but it's the default system, partition file system.
You know, Notice that I don't use, you know, like I say, I don't use it for anything else for user file system.
I I believe Red Hat is using. Has it available
I usually use Xfs, because that can grow a heck of a lot bigger than a normal file system.
it's like that slice you. Is that like?
Over here
No slash you is from bst 3 part or 4 Psd.
4 days, or you is user craft that isn't part of the root file system
Slice. Usr. If the binaries
I liked it back then, and I still use it today.
Yeah, Well, th, this is where all of the on this machine.
I remember using it back then, but I don't remember how
These are all the backups Yeah, we run every day.
There's what 25 or 30 of them
that's in that slash user slash you partition.
On this machine. This is a raid 6 machine. With what is it
Right mine on! Slash you 22 TB.
There's 6 2 TB, in fact, they did a presentation 18 months ago, or something like that.
When I did a hot upgrade from one to Terabyte drives the 2 terrified. No, 2 to 4 TB drives.
That's right. So 6 drivers 6 drives in there
4 TB is 24 TB
Correct.
Okay, yeah.
Shame. We don't have a recording of it
Well, I think we don't. I don't know.
We don't
It's on that distance Don has
Yeah, maybe we need to take a couple of pieces and just knock on a door someday
Go, and and the other good. Nice thing about our snapshot is is designed to work over.
Ssh
So this this machine has a crown tab
It runs a set of backups every day
Come on!
You know, every every one of those backups is daily, weekly, monthly, and you can define whatever sequences you want.
I like data daily, weekly, monthly, because I set these up 1015 years ago.
Nowadays they don't like Alpha Beta gamma
That doesn't make too much sense to me. But in personal preference
Shoot.
Yeah.
You can. You can back it up to any mounted file system locally. You know.
The reason for that is, it uses hard links to conserve disk space, and you can.
Leah, I have a question, Zoom. If the let's say you use this, or snapshot, can you back it up to an external hard drive?
You can only create hard links on a local file system
Yeah, that's the problem. So it if the machine gets destroyed, then there's no external hard drive that has the backup.
Why Why is that problem
No, no, no! These backups are on a different machine.
So okay.
Physically.
I'll go
Oh! And is it? Is it possible to back them up to a hard drive?
Why?
Well, let's put it this way, If Amy tries to break in here, they aren't gonna live through it.
Well, read it. You can't put the machine in the safety deposit box at the bank.
So, using the
Okay, Well.
That's that's your scenario, that detail.
But I'm speaking of people that have to use this for what like their laptop, the laptop gets stolen.
Well, don't saving your backups to a bet to a laptop.
And now they have to, after we
It seems like not real smart to me.
If anything happens, if it happens this place, I have a lot more problems than backups
No, I'm saying you. You would save the the backups from the laptop to a hard drive
No? Why, Why why would you that Jonathan? What?
Well.
Why, how would you want to back up a laptop
You have important business information on it.
Then it should be replicated somewhere else. For in the first place, and that remote location backed up like we do, with own cloud
Well, I I back up my stuff by tar on. I used the 3, 2, one system so it's stored in 3 places.
2 of them are external devices, and one is stored off-site.
Yeah.
So that's that's how I do. My backups and then it's worked well for me for years.
So. I mean you. You back it up to an external hard drive.
Used to be tapes, but I have no experience with tapes
Yeah, to to
And so you take their those little slim, slim line.
Okay, But yeah.
External hard drives to the bank and swap out the from the safety to deposit box to the the next set, and bring those home for a week and back up to that
My point is is, it's got to be able to be restored without with with the computer gone.
Okay.
So. In other words, your business man, or a business woman, and you have important presentations on your laptop.
It got stolen at the airport, and you let's say you're using open Dsd.
Or 7 foot. You can go there and okay buy a new label and then restore it from you.
Yeah.
Could computer at home or
Well it might. My My point would be is, there's I don't have any reason to do that, because everything that I have that I is critic
No? Okay. No, I'm I'm just saying this is this is open source software.
yeah, well, no.
Remember.
All of the you know. I can run 10 machines with the exact same information if I make a change on one it's replicated the other 9 within a minute.
Yeah, But that that's your special operation in general.
But I'm doing an ordinary business man or woman.
Their laptop is stolen. They need to go home and and and get a new laptop, and then restore the information.
Or 2 at most, all that
How are they going to do that
They don't have to. This walk over to a machine with a web browser and go get their files
From where.
From the own cloud server
Well, I'm saying, if they don't have the expertise or the the where
I don't know how some secure Google drive is.
Well, if it if you don't have the expertise to sign up for Google drive
Okay.
I'll tell you that right now.
Well, I mean you, you either want expertise or security. I mean, if you want security, you you do it yourself.
Okay.
I mean
You gotta pay Once once you start to put a bunch of data, you put 40 gigs up on who will drive?
You, could you? You could run it. But then you got to pay for a storage
They're going to charge your money, and I don't know how good their security is.
perfect.
Okay, yeah, Well, I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that if if your mugle you you don't care about security, and then that's easy, solution
Okay.
Well, this is an external backup. It's back.
It's backed up to the the the own cloud server in Iraq here maintains synchronization between all the machines.
Well, I still say that the external back of back up to the hard drive
It gets backed up to the core machine show to answer.
Little Leland
So it adds, like 8 or 9 backups
We went. Your average desktop user doesn't know how to do that.
They can use Google drive you. You think you have a desktop user.
It's gonna be able to integrate
encrypt, encrypt it before you put it up there, and then decrypt it.
I don't trust Google's no hype, and I don't trust their security
When you get it down. What's the problem with that
What.
Well.
Course it would
So that probably will work, Stan. That probably would work
Yeah, our my point is what model is could be able to do a backup like you do
That's a good
Well under under under Ubuntu and Linux.
Kabulintu and Mint. You could just simply drag and drop them the files to the the
Hey, can spell, tar.
Yeah, and and if you're forget to do that, your host, that's why own cloud is better.
The hard, drive.
Because if you could, if you could, if you can run Linux, you can run on Cloud if you can.
That will drive is your solution.
Whatever
yeah, their own clouds. I don't run the the server for own cloud, but I use it and seems bulletproof to me.
and if you're concerned about security, just encrypted before you store it somewhere and you pull it down unencrypted.
And just that it acts like another disk drive. I keep it, live on my system, and it's just you know it just appears to be another just drive somewhere, but it's 60 miles from here.
You know
Yeah.
You know you'd write a simple script to do that just a matter making sure you don't forget the password for encrypting it and decrypting it
Right.
That couldn't happen
Yeah, you, and as a system, admin of any kind, it's your responsibility to teach your users how to use a security vault or storing their passwords.
Hmm.
or make sure. You No, no, no; make sure you save in your password your password vote
I gotta do that with my wife When she was in the hospital for months last year.
She she's just really couldn't operate a computer or phone or anything.
She was sick and you know she lost the passwords to her iphone, and oh, is a mess.
It's a horrible mess you know. And she's got the passwords all written on a piece of paper, and I've got high-risk scans as a piece of paper.
I know it takes a lot of time. I'm still working on my sister-in-law trying to get her to use the password ball
I have. No, I yeah, is certainly secure. I couldn't begin to guess what half of that means.
Good. Oh, God knows, yeah. She goes around the edge of it
Is it written in shorthand
I've been wondering how is on plaid doing after the fork?
yeah, well, I mean for like 10 years ago, they're they're designed for 2 different markets.
Own Cloud is designed for a storage market. Next, Cloud is designed for development market.
Next cloud has so many features and stuff that that I would never use, that I looked at a couple of times and gave up
But there, you know, there's a couple of critical features that if somebody had it I would jump on it.
I know I've seen more about next cloud these days. That own cloud zone cloud still doing well after after it was forked
But nobody has it. The only calendar I've seen with an agenda view is Google
I think, after that latest Google photos thing, though, you know, I don't know if you heard about that where they canceled a couple of people's accounts and won't let them won't reinstate them for any reason people have been looking for like how can I get my
photos out of Google because I don't want that to happen to me.
And so I think some people are looking for something like that.
Okay.
I don't know if own cloud or next cloud can do things like that, though
Yeah, I wouldn't know what to tell you, because you know, it does take a little bit of technical expertise to manage it, although I believe on Cloud will show you an instance if I remember correctly
Well, yeah, but the the nice thing about Google photos are all Maggie links your camera.
What I do is I take a picture fine. It goes into Google photos a couple of hours, you know.
Yeah, I've been wondering if I want to like set up an own cloud like do that for our photos, you know, because it's so nice just to shove them into Google photos and not have to worry about managing all that crap, myself you know But I don't know this reach it
Yeah, I think it. Yeah, I think at this point, just having a backup.
Now, now that they're like canceling people's accounts and not reinstating them for any reason. I don't know.
The next day I'll suck it out of Google photos and throw it, and in my own cloud
no, I just can't ask you if you could elaborate on that, I would.
It's just. Did you hear? Did you hear about that story?
Okay, So basically what happened was, And there's multiple stories, but one of them was really popular, and that and hit the blog sites.
But basically more with the pandemic. Now, more people are doing like telemedicine where you know, and the doctor that you're doing telemedicine Once you just send photos to them, and stuff like that.
Well, this parent, their child, had a rash, and so he took a picture of his child's private area to show the doctor through telemedicine where the rash was.
But since his phone was linked up to Google photos, it automatically got backed up to Google Servers.
And then what Google did was they packaged up the last like 10 years of this guy's Gmail and you know photos and everything else in his Google account, and sent it to the authorities.
No.
And then they flagged his account and locked him out.
And now the authorities have cleared it, like, yeah, this guy was just doing telemedicine and wasn't, you know, it wasn't child point or anything like that, but Google, still won't give him his account back so like No, once you're flagged you're gone and once the story broke and got
big, then a couple of other people said, Yeah, that happened to me, too, and I still don't have an account, you know, and like one of the guys is like trying to close the mortgage And now his emails, gone so he can't close his mortgage because you know, he no longer. Has an email.
Or is the email. He was using. He can't access it anymore.
Yeah, I and I had heard the the, the first instance, that story, Sean the I hadn't heard. There were additional people now as well
Now, now, and I know there's a number of us here who think of Apple as the the next generation of the horrible Empire.
But I mean apple as it's photo storage.
It's it's, and of course it It runs on your own machines, back it up to the apple cloud.
One of the nice things about Apple opposed to Google is that that's what Apple sells.
The fact that no, they don't. Data mine everything. They are not looking at everything.
So it's just I don't know. This is weird
Yeah, I just wonder how long that's gonna last, you know, because I think you know, it's cause I My theory is, as soon as Iphones say, I'll start going down right especially in the economy.
We have now. People can't by $1,200 iphones every year anymore.
Stuff like that, you know, Are they gonna move in Google's direction, where they start doing more services and more ads and stuff like that.
Like, I think there's nothing stopping them other than the fact that right now they think they can make more money by saying we're a privacy. Focus.
We don't do that stuff. They think they can make more money off of that message than they could trying to compete with Google on like add sales and service sales right?
But as soon as as soon as that calculation flips where it's like Oh, well, now, all of a sudden, we think we could make more money by basically doing what Google does, and and looking through all your stuff and selling, you ads based on it I I don't think you know I don't think
they'd stop from I don't think that I think they would do that if they think it would make them more money.
It's all encrypted and Apple doesn't know, nor do they care about what stuff is in your in your photos?
Album.
Yeah, I agree in in In the end, money is going to be the driving factor.
but but yeah, I think as soon as they would do that, though.
Then that's going to immediately suppress there actual sales, prices that they're going to be able to sell iphones and other equipment for, because and that that'll shatter their image of being the privacy company that's a trade off
Let me jump over to the chat for a moment.
Doug and posted in there. Borg, backup.
Doug, you want to. I don't know.
Do? You have a mic? Not sure. If you have a microphone, Doug: Good.
Okay, You You want to tell us a little something about board backup.
yeah, yeah, I do.
I don't have all my thoughts on an organized, but yeah, it basically it.
Maybe
It's able to handle what you were describing with, or I can't remember who it was, but with the external drives, so it doesn't require a server to be able to handle those it can do the incremental backups it does encryption.
but you. It does have a a server side to it that you can run in a similar way, like over Ssh.
And be able to manage it with an external server that way, and you can also just use it.
Just stand alone, like on your machine to back up specific directories to your board backup location.
It's basically set up like a repository.
You know
And I've heard people talk about board. They always say it's big like I always hear Borg is big.
So you have to use the Board command to interact with it
What do you? What do you think the people mean when they say that
click The collective is big. No, they're saying that they're saying they collect.
I don't know. That's a good question. I I mean you mean they're saying it's bloated or it has a lot of features that I don't use.
They're saying, the collective. They're saying the collective is big, you know.
Hi!
The Board, Collective
I'm sorry. What
Many have been assimilated. That's true.
I think maybe like the context. I've heard, and maybe like you have to like.
There's a lot of concepts you have to learn before you can use it effectively.
yeah, and there's probably a little bit of a learning curve.
But you know you can get started with it right away, and just kinda adopt more features as you learn more about it.
but yeah, it's it's saved My, butt a few times already.
I just I have a chrome job that runs the board commands.
I need it to, and I can go back in time and various intervals.
it's also you can have your chron job.
Be like where it's kind of self cleaning.
I I don't know what the right way to say.
That is but where, If maybe you decide well, you don't care too much about your hourly backups like next week, you know, so you'll just keep maybe one weekly backup that's beyond like once a once a snapshot is past 7 days maybe it just keeps one from the the week.
Or from the month, or you could just say, you know what after 6 months, just go ahead and delete those backups that way.
You can kind of figure Oh, how much space you're going to use!
And it make sure you don't go over that by just keeping all of your backups and definitely
you can also mount your your backup, and at, the different, the different different snapshots.
So if you wanted to, You know, like I think someone said, you know, just open open it up and read one file without having to process the whole thing like you have to do with the tarball you can do that you can either do that through the mount or extract commands that they have they have a lot
of sub commands, and those are
Those are, I think, what gives it kind of a high learning curve, because there is a lot that they can do.
that's a good feature.
Nice. Nice Is that did that grow out of Linux grow out of Bsd. Wha!
but they're their website. They're Their documentation is pretty well organized.
I'm not sure where and originate in I don't.
I don't know it's history, but I know
You look at that that same the same page that I linked to in the chat.
Where is it? There
It has a list of all the different distributions, looks like Vsd or open Bsd.
Is one of Them Freebsd, as well
Okay.
Debian has a package I don't know. I guess it's just in the standard repository, Hey, Debian.
Okay.
Excellent.
Oh! Oh!
Stay, Stan, start a screen, sharing.
About some bigger font. Stan
Yeah, So if you scroll down a little bit where it is, that distribution package section. There's that table that lists out, I guess, everywhere they support it officially. I would imagine there's places you can install it that aren't in that table
Bump it 3 or 4 times. There you go. How are you
Looks like it's in most of the main repository.
I guess from source you could can navigate to the from source installation, instructions
Most of the main distros
Yeah.
And what's the big stick about that
About
About boring like, What's It's
for me. I I don't know what I don't know how they advertise themselves.
Really, but for me it's just the the incremental backups, the encryption as well.
they have, they also have
Oh, gosh! Cause let's see the other one. We were.
Or I mean, what's its main main focus? Name to fame
I care with Dump. There was the issue with backing up a mounted file system where it could change one while you're reading from it.
and Borg has the check sub command where you can actually verify.
you can verify that your backs up your backups contain the the data that it thinks it has, because everything's hashed when it's backed up, and you can.
Yeah.
I think that was something that you had commented on was that Jonathan the that aspect of doing dump on active file system
Got you with an air shot
we're just kind of curious as to what brought to you tonight.
no, this is a Did you see this particular topic?
or just something that you happen to see on on our calendars, or some other calendar, or meet up, or you know what what attracted you to come tonight If you haven't been here in a while, If anybody carries to either and top turn on your microphone otherwise you can put it put it in
yup
Gary, the only relatively new person here is Doug.
chat, or if you want to be private, just Yes, sir.
but yeah, so a little bit about me, I'm currently on a parental leave from work right now.
So yeah, yeah. So they're giving me 4 months. I'm about half way through.
And you know I I've just been trying to keep busy. Normally.
I just I work on a lot of web development stuff, but I'm just like working by myself.
Okay.
So I thought, Well, if I'm not gonna even work, and alright, I gotta at least be meeting with people talking about stuff just trying to stay sharp.
While I'm off work. So I can kind of hit the ground running when I come back.
But anyways I've been trying to do something just you know, something like this looking through.
Meet up. That's how I found this was through. Meet up.
But just, you know, like 1 1, 2 of them week.
And yesterday I was actually supposed to go to one. It was in person for Javascript, and they updated the the meetup location yesterday morning, and it was like Well, we don't have a topic we don't have any presenters we're just gonna meet.
at this brute at this brewery downtown like Well, I don't know that that doesn't really seem like the that doesn't seem like my goal, like.
I'm not just trying to hang out with people. One, you know, have have some peers, or whatever It's just not my team.
So that's that's what made me look further.
Because right now, just been doing the Indianapolis meetups.
That's where I'm at. So I got up on. Come on, meet up and saw you guys there.
Everybody else's whole time
So alright, join
Another question: What are you doing for continuing education?
For continuing education.
Yeah, you certification, or just just Youtube, or anything
No, no, I'm I'm just always doing something, just trying to learn something new.
nothing, you know nothing official, nothing where I get a piece of paper at the end.
Yeah, great, good, good, good.
But
I think the honor is unimportant. The The continuing seeking of knowledge is important.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's one of the main reasons why I got into Linux is because you know, that's just a rabbit hole that just keeps going.
cool.
Well, you've certainly been a welcome addition this evening, and we certainly invite you to come back at any time.
frankly, this is I'll although it's been a very nice presentation by Jonathan.
I appreciate it Yeah, relatively brief.
He's been There are other nights where it seems like we.
we, we over plan the evening sometimes, and put way too much material, and we've been thinking but so we're trying to come down to a a better size.
But so. And also I don't know if you've seen our schedule, but we we actually do
Technical meetings, a month, one that we just call our general meeting tonight, which is the Linenx meeting St.
Louis Linux, and then one that is called the The New.
Users meeting where the rule of thumb is. Whoever whoever considers themselves to be the the most neophyte user, the newest who is user, Linux gets to ask the questions until his questions have been adequately answered and then it moves up taking order.
And you know can't. You can't run out of new things to learn
So moving train.
so
I I like it. Yeah, I'm I'm just now seeing this.
does it? Baker? Calendar? Yeah, that's there.
The the phone.
Okay.
But 5 nights from tonight is the new Linux user group.
It's free format and newest guy in the room gets to ask all the questions. Also.
The first. That's usually the fourth Tuesday of the month.
Oh, good.
On the first Thursday. The month is a slack meeting which traditionally had been at the library, where you'd bring in your hardware and we could. And we'd fix it, figure figure out the configuration problems and things like that
Yeah, and we've actually had one of our guys.
One guy came in with the apple machine. We put Linux on it.
Then the following month, they came to another meeting and feel a bunch of got his apple printer to work on the Linux machine running on the apple machine, so no since Phil used to run up partnership.
In and I hard work. Peter Harper shopping. He knows a lot of hard work.
Please don't think poorly of us, but we'd even answer Microsoft questions on those kind of nights.
Hammond, Gary Mckee, a few other, and it's usually free format and surprise. You?
May we have even been able to do a lot of stuff remotely.
Even though we're not face to face with the hardware, the most difficult thing we have is bios configuration things, cause we can't see what's on the screen, and it's often difficult for the needle fight to to describe what's on the screen and plus he's only got
one machine, so if he boosts to look at the Bios, he's not talking to a city park
But we have and I've done it with a number of people that remotely help them Install Linux on a windows, machine, get them to build up, download an Iso build a build a thumb drive that's bootable boot the thing, up live on the wind on a
machine and go into get so, and then I'm got a remote desktop environment where I'm in with them.
yeah.
Clicking on the mouse buttons and and putting in the configuration stuff. At least we've been able to do a lot of stuff
Yeah.
Yep. I was just thinking the other day how much I take for granted that I'm not down to that that origin machine, you know, like when you've when all you've got is the one, machine, and if it if your installation goes wrong, you don't have any other device to look up information
on.
Yeah.
Yup
Yeah, yeah.
Oh! And then sometimes I've even in the past I remember installing I had a had to reinstall wind windows.
I forget what version on a box, and I went to install the darn thing, and it didn't have the device driver for the for the the graphic stream, and I had to go to another machine pull up the device driver down copy out andrew I think around with a CD at that time put it
over our machine because the laptop or it was on did not have a phone drive connection, and in ported the driver, and then by memory
Install the vam driver on the link on the windows box.
I could never do that again. Oh, my gosh
so
So if you had sound you could turn it on type in your password.
But some of the guys here can do that kind of stuff, and if we're always fortunate, we are always
I am here. I did it. I don't remember. It was.
It was like 10 steps spending day bad at, and I did it all for memory, because I only had that one machine. That was everything else was Linux
No, Huh!
Oh, well, and I I've given up on on windows, anyway, so it doesn't matter for me anymore.
Hey, Cook, guys, I have a question
This is for Lean Lee. I'm gonna try your suggestion.
All the Linux distributions are running down, using the ext 4 file system, but eventually I will use Btfs.
Oh!
Wait, wait! Wait! Wait! What What are you gonna use? Besides, the HD.
My question is, if I
But yeah.
Better of it. So my question, Lee, is, if I use third party packages like a softmaker office.
Do you mean better? Fs: right? Yeah, be it's it's actually the full full acronym and Bet: Rfs: That's why people call it butterfly yeah, okay.
Monter Fs is only clickable to the Os.
Will that work on Bt. Rfs: Do you know
The kernel, all, every every every file system. Api presented to user land is independent of the actual structure on the disk.
Okay.
That's abstraction. At the kernel provides.
Got it.
For
Gotcha, so I won my softmaker office
So
Yeah, yeah, it is the only thing you want to be concerned about is is, if it is not well supported on that distro, You know some versions are older than the current.
Ones yeah, go ahead.
Okay, my next question. There's if I'm using Btr Fs and I back up the whole file system occasionally, it will preserve all the all the prior backups and Btrs that I backed up to the external hard drive is that correct
It would, but they're not gonna do any good. Okay, because the kernel manages snapshots, and I doubt if you can restore snapshot that there was not made by the running colonel You might be able to but as a rule when I back up something with butterfs I exclude the
Oh, would be!
Okay, have to look into this for with more. My buddy's by Openbsd and freebsd Buddies Ghost Bsd uses Bbt.
snapshots.
Rfs, and not btr Z fs, which is, I guess, A.
Yeah, yeah, it's similar. Z Fs is older.
it is, it does not have as mature snapshot capability as butter.
Fs. But it is more robust in terms of error.
Similar is that similarly
Tolerance, I believe. Oh, it's using a lot of nas systems
Well, both both of those 2 are fast, as all get out
Yeah.
Okay, alright. We've been a big help. I'm gonna have to look into this
so leave. If if I understand this, I've been following this with a half an ear that's about how my brain can handle these days.
Sure.
Yeah, I I like Xfs, because I know for fact, it'll run on multi terabyte.
Oh, file systems without a problem. And it's also very easy to scale, like if you want to take a 10 TB file system and make it a 40, TB file system.
It takes about 15 s. So it's a heck of a lot.
you would use butterfs for your partition, and what it and some other file system for the rest of the machine
Yeah, simpler and faster than doing it with ext 4 or something like that.
You know. There, there's a lot of. There's a lot of reasons under the cover.
Why, but you know I usually don't. Don't dig too deeply.
Okay, how big it
Yeah, that's all I've ever done. Just you know.
I never had any kind of difficulty, you know, with the phone system they I run mostly a blunt and I've got one Susan machine, and they all seem to work and the file system just sits there and serves files and you know, I don't think about it too.
That is, at his trust with the base file. Systems are for the distro running
Much, never had a reason to think about it, You know
Yeah.
Yeah, is is mainly because most people have their video turned off.
I've been sitting here watching this Zoom meeting, and this thing takes very little bandwidth
Yeah, we'll do it.
Yeah.
So your screen you're screening. Your screen's fairly static, and you only think this is taken banned with the audio
Okay, sorry about that. I had to drop off
Yeah, no notice when I turn my hello, when I turn my the upload immediately jumps up.
I mean. It's not real high, you know, but good desktop
Oh, oh, yeah.
That's okay. Great. We didn't miss you.
Do you hear my comments about Bit Meter early on?
Where are you? Okay, Yeah, It It seems pretty nice. I'm gonna I want to write myself a set of instructions for installing it because I'll forget it by next week.
hmm, yeah.
Yeah, my my only problem is Yeah, I forget what it is.
But I put a tool on on one of my showers back in the days when they were feeding a hub, and I could watch traffic on the entire network.
But yeah. Go ahead, go ahead, laugh.
Okay, yeah, a lot of it. Infrastructure. Just it seems to work just fine.
But once once we migrated to switches about 15 years ago, it wasn't worth playing with anymore.
And I don't have to worry about it too much.
Yep.
But I'm back. Oh, there we go!
let's see it. It looks like we're winding down.
Which is a good deal for me
Okay.
We've lost a couple of more people. Yeah, although, obviously, Doug, if you haven't figured out, Yeah, this is almost like being at one of those in person meetings where Yeah, if you have your hand, around a beer, and there's a piece of pizza in front of you Yeah, we can
This is true. This is true.
keep talking, technical stuff to the wee hours of the morning.
But but yeah, it. You certainly welcome to come back in any time to one of our meetings.
and if you just want to, if you just want to be in contact with us, you can see my email address there on the screen.
but Editor atslude.org usually goes to at least 2, sometimes 3 or 4 of us.
And so yeah, send anything you want to editor. And that hopefully will attract somebody's attention here.
And obviously, we're always interested with, you know, talks that are being hosted elsewhere.
getting okay
We'll put them on our calendar, just so other people can find them.
So
Okay.
And our discussion mailing list is where you can ask questions, and sometimes you get good answers, and sometimes I answer it.
Yeah, that's true.
Okay.
Hi, Gary, you want to do the upside down Clapper
You know in in a movie. The the clapper right side up.
The ups, the upside down clapper. Who is that? Like the putting the closing comment on the thing
It starts at the upside down clapper, stops it.
Yeah, yeah, they they bitch at me when I held the wrong way.
Oh, I didn't realize that. Oh.
Okay, Well, we're gonna stop the recording. This has been the monthly St.
Louis Linux user meeting. This was Thursday September the 20 s, 2,022.
Our speaker this evening was Jonathan Drews.
His topic was dump restore, and we appreciate his talk.
Jonathan is a long time member no longer lives here in St.
Louis, but we're happy to have them.
You're you're outside of Detroit. Right, Jonathan.
40 years ago.
that's us and learns
Oh, cool!
But you're a wile minutes. Right? That's right.