Book in Gary.
Okay, the book end for tonight.
This is.
Wednesday, August the 14, th 2,024. This is the monthly meeting.
Of the St. Louis Linux Unix. Users group.
Our speakers tonight.
The Lammerch doing chat gpt.
As a tool for fixing network.
Upgrade problems.
And our.
Basic tutorial speaker is Ken Johnson, who's going to talk to us about Kvm.
Or.
Beginners.
So. Ken is a ken, is our secretary of this organization.
And he's also been a longtime support of the group, including a financial supporter and.
Subsidizing or basically keeping us running on zoom.
So we really appreciate all of Ken's efforts.
The.
A quick announcement. We.
Most of you know we
Have always, almost always been recording these meetings.
So you can sign in with your own name, which, of course, we'd love to know who you are if you do.
Decide to use a.
Anonymity, a pseudonym.
Try and make it 2 names, so that we can identify.
You from somebody else. In other words, if we all have.
Bob. Yeah, too many, Bob's. We need a last name for some kind of last designator. There.
Just so we know who you are. One of the things. Is that so? What generates the ability to vote? And so, technically. If you attend 2 of our meetings in a calendar year, you're eligible to vote so.
One of the reasons why we try and keep track.
With that. Oh! And also, if you have any objections to being recorded.
I guess you can let us know now, or there's an oops during the meeting. Perhaps it's possible.
For us to edit out before we posted permanently. But that takes some effort on someone's part usually.
So.
Try and do it if we can.
That having been said, I guess I'm going to turn it over to Ken. Who's going to tell us all about.
Kvm, or beginners.
Okay, let's see if this works.
Fan, I'd say no.
Got your screen ken.
Yeah, but.
Not the screen.
It's supposed to be.
Oh!
Let's try again.
I wasn't expecting it to.
This is rather a bother.
I'm using.
Impress.
And I tell it.
Run, the slideshow.
And it shows the slideshow on one of my screens.
And I shared that screen.
And at that point
The slate.
You might try sharing the Monitor ken instead.
The other thing. If it's changing screens on you.
Is it.
And just make it.
Don't!
Go full screen, but resize the window.
To the size of the screen. If that makes sense.
And see if you can share better.
Well.
I don't know how to do that.
With.
The slideshow.
For impress.
Worst case. Just leave them in press and show that screen, instead of doing the F 5.
Alright! So my options are screen one.
But in the little preview it doesn't.
When I when I go to say.
Share screen.
Swiping out.
What was there?
And then.
If I select the screen that that was on, then.
Okay, well, let's see what other options we have.
That's really a bother.
That's actually a bother in a bunch of different ways.
I think what you I think, maybe what we ought to see. Find out if
No, that isn't help.
You know.
I'm used to this working.
I wonder if it would work better.
If I didn't use the app, but instead used.
The browser.
To connect to the meeting.
Any Thoughts on.
You, won't you? You won't be able to share.
I see.
So either I can share, and it doesn't work, or I can't share.
Hi.
I'm you know, less impressed with Zoom than I used to be.
I have.
We're doing.
Product in a while, but I didn't have trouble using the browser.
Share.
Been a few months since I did it a couple months at least.
Sean.
What's your what's your.
At least I thought that was Shawn that said it wouldn't work.
No, it was me, Randy.
Sorry.
I was in it. I was in a meeting last night where somebody tried.
To do a share.
And they were in the browser.
Version of Zoom, and the share was not present.
Even if, even as a cohost, he was not able to.
Share, he finally.
Downloaded zoom.
And
Went from there.
And the only thing I was going to suggest to Ken was.
Make sure you've got the latest version of Zoom.
Cause an old version of Zoom.
Can cause a problem.
Could I ask what browser he failed with? Because
I tried it.
Some time ago, but I did it with the chrome browser.
And that worked, okay.
Yeah, I think he was in chrome last night.
Okay.
The changes in zoom have changed, and have caused some other.
Other compatibility, problems in.
That may be one of them.
Okay.
But we're seeing your screen, though. Can't you just drag your presentation over? And even if it's not maximized to show the non maximized.
Version of the presentation.
Well, yes, but.
So that's what it's that's what it looks like.
You see that.
No.
No, we lost your share.
You're not sharing now.
I was gonna suggest the same thing as Shawn run the run that in the in the window that is.
Visible. Yeah.
We see
I see it.
Yep.
Your program, your editor in your document.
There you go!
Yeah, yeah, the the.
Twill.
Let's see here.
Be right back.
One of the things that you can do is impress.
Is that you can have notes that are associated with each slide.
And.
The difficulty with.
The approach we're taking now, of course.
Is that the notes are not.
I mean, I can make the notes visible, but then the contents of the slide will become.
Considerably smaller.
Probably small.
You know.
Father.
So working on an alternative to that.
So. So what happens? So we see it right now. So what happens if you do the presentation mode.
Right now.
Can anyone hear Stan.
Yep.
Yes, we dear Stan.
Fine.
Well.
If I say.
Bummer.
W.
There. You're good. We got it.
I don't think he is.
Share, first, st then.
Do the slideshow. Maybe.
That's my hat.
No.
No, that's not relevant.
Yeah.
Okay, but we're good. Now. We see that we see it full screen.
Swell.
Okay.
So.
For the purpose of this presentation, Kvm. Is the Hypervisor support built into the Linux kernel.
And the user space components.
That enable it to be a useful tool.
So if I say kvm.
I'm referring to.
Group of software, that body of software.
This is what I do.
This is normally.
Where I would talk about.
The experience that qualifies me for giving this presentation.
I am, however, a recent beginner with Kvm.
I'll discuss why I got started with it.
And I'll discuss in general terms of practical use case that does not involve running hosting services.
I have previous experience with other virtual.
Host hosting mechanisms.
Hyper V. In virtualbox.
But.
Kvm was new to me until about.
Month and a half ago.
So some things that we're not going to do. We're not going to do any demonstrations.
Because I have a limited amount of time here.
And that would just stretch it out.
I will not be answering advanced questions about Kvm. Or virtual machines in general.
And I will not provide specifics for a Don Debian systems.
I'm not opposed to non Debian based systems, but all Linux systems that I support.
Happen to be either Debbie and or Debian, based directly or indirectly.
I'm just not in a position to address specifics for other systems.
So so that already.
So, Ykvm, I needed to practice an upgrade.
The customer.
Who has this system that needs to be upgraded.
Has assigned me a desktop system. It runs windows.
Oh, windows has hyperv, and hyperv is great when it works, which unfortunately is about half the time.
My observation is that on systems that are domain members, that with.
Somewhat restricted group policies.
Hyperv.
About half the time works, and about half the time, and says, No, you're not allowed to do that.
Even if you're a local admin.
So.
That was ruled out.
And licensing for virtualbox is a bit more complex in commercial applications.
And I did not want to get into that.
So.
Roughly. What we're going to go through tonight is preparing, and Kvm.
Creating Virtual Machine.
Stirring it, stopping it, looking at the status.
And.
The most basic default, networking.
So here's some hardware recommendations.
And in July series, or Xenon CPU, or.
An Amd. CPU. With Vm. Support.
As.
Kind of minimums.
16 GB of memory, and enough disk storage.
You can probably get by with this. With less than this, under some circumstances.
But it probably won't be much fun.
I know that other than for minimal laptops used.
Web browsing and maybe simple. Doc. Preparation.
I, personally haven't configured a system with less than 16 GB of memory.
For.
6 or 7 years.
So.
Not not ridiculous.
You know, to expect that you would have access to something like this.
Software.
Debian, or a related system.
This seems to do the trick least. It works for me.
It's just, you know, a list of packages that you need to specify.
Additional packages will almost certainly be pulled in to meet.
The requirements of these packages.
And when it's finished.
You should have what you need.
However.
You need to put your.
Into the liver. Excuse me. You need to put your user in the libvirt group.
Otherwise.
Otherwise the virtual machine manager, which is Gui.
Application will complain.
Okay.
So.
My suggestion is that if you're starting out.
With Kvm.
Plus.
Do you use virtual machine manager, which is gui application to create vms.
It was automatically added to Menus and Xfce. And then some labs, open box.
So probably it will just show up in your menu.
And you.
Select it.
And run it.
And off you go.
Whoops.
Here we go!
So when you fire it up, it's gonna look like this.
And.
You go up to the file menu and say.
Create. I want to create a new virtual machine.
And it will open a series of windows.
There were 5 of them, in fact.
This is the 1st one.
And the 1st thing it wants to know is, how are you going to install the operating system? Because.
Excuse me.
Virtual machine manager is going to work on the assumption that.
You're going to say, Okay, here's.
Use my media, and I want to get started on installing it right away.
I don't think that's a Kvm requirement. I think it's just the way that.
This Gui app. Works.
So you pick one.
I think, and I assume Image is going to be pretty typical.
You pick your architecture, option.
And next.
Well, Ford, I guess they say.
So I selected an Iso.
The.
Server where I ran this.
Is
Couple versions behind.
So I selected Debian testing.
As.
The
Operating system, since that was basically the newest version of Debian available in its list of options.
And that's work.
It turns out.
So here I'm giving it 8 GB. Memory.
And.
On CPU.
This system has.
32 gigs, but it's not a super powerful CPU. So.
Give it a disk, drive.
Give it a name which in this case is template.
The default.
Network selection is.
It then shows you the.
A summary of what's going on in terms of.
The operating systems. Debian testing you're getting it from an iso. You've given it.
8 GB.
20 GB of disk, space.
And then.
Of course we just selected it.
Well, we accept the default of Nat.
If you then hit finish.
It's going to open a new window.
Which is.
Basically the console.
Of your virtual machine.
In my case, the the default.
Was to.
Boot alive.
A live system from the.
From that disk drive. It has several options. There's install option, but it.
The live one was the default, and I didn't get to it before it. Times out.
So it booted up.
Bunsen, Labs, Linux.
And you can see that. That's, you know, sitting in a.
In, the.
Larger Window.
The Host system.
So.
That wasn't so bad, right?
Now, this particular virtual machine probably. Isn't that.
Useful to me, because the next time it boots up it.
Wants to boot off of the disk drive, and of course, because I booted the live image from this from the Iso.
There's anything on the disk drive but.
It demonstrates how this can work.
Start, stop and status.
I suggest that.
You.
Then I'll get into the habit of using the command line interface.
For these.
Purposes.
So if you're.
Virtual machine is not started.
You can.
Use virsh and start it up. And it will say, Hey, I started. That one domain is what it calls virtual machine.
To shut down a virtual machine, you would. Well, if it's a Linux system you're going to use shutdown. H.
Dash, or now.
And then use.
Via RS. To.
Turned it off.
Again. It's really straightforward.
And finally, you can use, yeah, RS to.
What's the status is?
Of.
All of your virtual machines.
In this case there's only one.
Its state is running.
Now you may recall that we selected.
Net networking.
As.
Our.
Network Adoption.
In.
This situation. What that means is that.
Your.
Basically between your virtual machine and your host system.
There's net router.
No, I take that back. There's a net router in your.
Host system and your virtual machine are connected to it.
On the other side of that.
Net router.
Is access to.
Whatever your host machine sees on its.
Local, network.
Would it be fair to describe it as your host machine.
Actually, as.
Router for the vms that are running on it.
Yes.
Given that you also have the understanding that you're.
The host machine is also connected to the virtual network.
On the same side as.
Your virtual machines.
Because what you can do is you can say is, you can connect from your host machine.
To your virtual machines.
Using Ssh or sftp, or.
Other tools that use. Tcp, IP.
So.
There are some commands.
For.
Manipulating the network.
The 1st one lists the networks that you've defined in this case. There's just one. The default.
The second command says.
Start that up by default, so that I don't have to mess with that as an additional thing. Every time I start up.
My vm.
And the 3rd one.
Shows you the IP address.
Of.
Your Vm.
In this case it's different. Vm, than the one I just.
But it, basically, it shows the IP address. So if you want to connect to.
That Debian, 12.
Kvm, virtual machine.
You just specify.
That 19216812287.
IP. Address on your.
See your Ssh command line on the Host machine.
And you get connected.
Your.
Post machine seems to default to one on that same network.
So you can initiate connections.
From the Vm. To the host.
But.
Nothing that is outside the host can make.
Direct connections to the Vm.
At least as far as it's set up.
At this point.
Let's see.
So that means, for example, that if you want to.
You know, if you're doing some kind of work on the Vm. And you've got some result, you can transfer it back off to your host.
Or you can send things from your host into the Vm.
You know, for the purpose of.
The work that you're doing.
So in my particular case.
What I ended up doing was creating.
A virtual machine.
Which I have called template.
And then, when I wanted to practice.
This.
Complicated upgrade.
I would clone it.
And.
Go until.
I had failed.
Try and figure out.
How to overcome that failure.
Throw the clone away, clone it again.
And try it again, using my slightly longer procedure, which you're getting one step further along.
So that's a way that the.
The cloning can be useful for.
My particular test case.
Nope.
Other ways, that you might use this.
On a personal level.
Would be if you wanted to try out.
A different Linux distribution.
On the for the distribution you're currently using. Now, suppose you wanted to try out a different desktop environment.
But you wanted to avoid.
The possibility of.
Inadvertently is drawing the carefully crafted desktop environment you have now.
So those are some ways you can use this for those purposes.
It's.
It's a powerful and useful tool.
Simple applications with Kvm seem to be, you know, pretty straightforward.
And of course, you know.
You can always.
You can certainly take it further if you want.
There is an article at.
The Debian Wiki.
About Kvm. I found that useful to get as far as I have.
And the Pdf. Of these slides.
Including my presenter notes.
Should be up soon. On this look, websites.
So.
If there are questions about any of this.
This is just a reminder of the areas we covered.
This would be a good chance to ask them.
Dead silence!
When.
Either. I've board you.
How does one?
Go ahead!
How does one set up the networking so that the virtual machine can be accessed from.
The the WAN from the general network. So maybe if one was running a server inside of Vm.
That's an interesting question.
This is.
It's there.
Awful!
Are regarded as beyond the scope of this presentation.
Good.
This is Stan. I believe the way you do that is in the network, and you turn on bridging.
That's 1 way to do it.
Right.
You know I.
I.
This is this, as I said, I mean, it's a great question.
Ask. I would encourage you to ask the question on the Discuss Mailing List, and we can get into multiple ways of how to do it.
It is absolutely possible.
If you don't mind, I have an addendum.
To add regarding networking.
Compared to virtual box or something else.
And that is.
Kvm.
Leverages.
What I'll call standard Linuxworking.
So if you can configure something with, if config or IP route.
Or just about anything else to configure networking at the command line.
Kvm. Will happily adopt.
And work with what you.
I have found virtual box to not.
Be that way.
It's kind of a closed ecosystem.
Buried deep in Virtual Box.
So if you mess with a lot of things with networking like I do.
Kbm is a much more flexible.
Interface.
The Kpmt. Manager Gui is a little weird.
But it can be made to work, and you can absolutely.
Guests onto.
Your local land.
Or you can set up routing. So a whole bunch of different things.
This is Stan. Would you use net.
That manager, IENM, CLI and N.
TUI.
As as tools for that.
Within.
I believe.
I believe you could. I've been doing this on Gentoo and older ubuntu for.
Probably a decade.
And that manager was not a thing at the time.
But.
Based on my observations. I.
We'll bet you an expensive fancy.
That you could. If you can get network manager.
To do something with networking.
Kbm. Will verily adopt it.
Sounds good.
Thank you.
This also is Stan. I'd like to point out.
The problems with the.
Ken was having was sharing the notes and the slides is a matter of how.
Leave her office, is configured.
There's an option in there to shows.
I forget, like I think it's usually F. 9 will turn on the.
The, the.
The way that it shows both of those things, and then you can jump from the small.
Image to the, to the notes, and and back of back and forth to the large image.
From.
When you're browsing through the through the.
Impress.
It's a matter of how labor office is configured.
In my experience, anyway.
Andy, where that configuration is Stan.
I have to go. Look for it. Let me go. See here, hang on.
La di.
Minute.
You know. One thing I think, is pretty neat is that you had. That shows the Dhcp lease.
Oh, that was pretty interesting! I didn't know about that, and I don't know about an alternative like a similar thing on virtual box for that, either.
So I thought that was cool.
Because a lot of times you'll spin up a Vm. And you'd be like, what's the IP address that I need to ssh into now? You know.
And so being able to get that so easily is pretty nice.
I think you can get it out of box while the Vm. And is running. You can go into network properties.
Or host properties and networking.
And you can change a few things and see some Dhcp clients. But it's.
As far as I know, it is like 15 to 20 mouse clicks.
It's been.
Probably 12 to 18 months since I did it last.
I'll look up on the machine.
I.
So, Ken, do you have any interest in like looking at.
Some kind of automation as a next step, like what was that called oh, vagrant, or something along those lines.
Will.
No, not really.
You know.
I picked up using Kvm, because I have this particular problem that I need to solve.
You know I have this.
Complex and.
Rather ugly update or upgrade.
That needs to be done to a server.
It has a lot of steps.
And.
I need to practice them, because putting that out of commission is.
Undesirable.
If.
If Hyper V. Worked, I would have used that because that desktop that's been assigned to me at that customer's office.
Is, you know.
Perfectly powerful, enough to.
To be running.
You know, a Vm. In the background, and.
It's got plenty of memory.
And I have very convenient access to it.
Okay.
But.
Since Iber V. Didn't work.
There was a.
And a second server. That's.
And the the customer has, which is not very heavily used at the moment.
So I figured all right.
I'll run it over there.
And
You know, once I get through this.
I don't have.
You know immediate plans for.
Using Kvm.
On any kind of.
Scale basis.
Which is, which I think is where.
Automation would come in.
You know.
I set it up on a certain server at home.
You know, as part of getting ready for.
This Presentation.
And I can think of a couple of things to do with it. There.
But they're mostly.
They're all one off.
Type, things.
You know where I want to try out some new version of an operating system, or.
That kind of thing.
So again.
No.
I don't care much about automation at this point.
Mean, obviously, that could change in the future.
This is Stan.
Yes.
Stan, before before your question, I just want to be respectful of our speakers. Time, I know Ken's got a decent place later. How are you doing on time? Ken.
I can be here small. A small number of additional minutes.
All right, Stan. Back to you.
The answer to the question on impress is, you go into the selection for view.
And in the menu you select views. Tab Bar.
Up at the top, where it says, View.
Select that, go down, mude.
Oh, new tabs are okay.
Just turn up middle down views. Tab bar.
Click! Turn that on.
Like gives you normal outline notes.
When you turn that.
Turn off, or turn on.
You turn it, you click on it and turn it on.
Okay.
And that gives you 4 tabs there, one for normal.
One for outline, one for notes, and one for slides. Order.
Okay.
And oh, so I would turn on that side pane while I'm at it.
At least while I'm building something.
Yeah, well.
On under views, view side panning.
This.
Well, I had been expecting was just to come in and run this, because I've.
You know.
Done this before, and.
It seemed more or less just work.
I I thought the question was how to show your notes.
While we were going along.
Anyway.
Somebody asked.
Well.
So the.
Normally, if I'm doing it running a slideshow, there is.
2 screens, up.
Right.
There's the one that shows you the slides.
And there's this next second one, which is showing me.
Small versions current slide. A smaller version of the next slide.
And the notes.
And that's also where I, you know, hit next to previous or whatever to control what's going on.
But what I was having a lot of difficulty with.
In this case.
Was.
That.
You know I set that all up.
And then I tried to share the screen where.
You know the slides are.
Which I.
And it wouldn't.
Anyway.
Anything else.
Hey, Ken, just just for your possibly help you out.
I have that problem all the time.
And I end up sharing one monitor.
And then I just drag the presentation over to it.
Yeah, I don't know how to drag the presentation.
Okay.
i i i just wanted to make sure that you had considered.
I mean, it's.
This thing's here.
And you know.
But I don't understand it. I don't know how I can drag it over.
To a different screen.
Well, if if you hit your windows key, you get a minified version of every screen.
And then you could just grab it and drag it to a different monitor.
Now, sometimes that doesn't work. If you've done false, gone full screen.
On an application. Oh, and you're in windows, anyway. Sorry.
Forget it.
Poor guy!
So.
I needed a windows. 11. Laptop.
So.
Windows, workly.
Say again.
So windows doesn't work.
Well, I don't use it.
I know.
So I don't. I don't know if what I'm.
The recommendation I'm giving is applicable to a windows environment.
Yeah, I don't use it either. I still got a windows box here, but.
I haven't had turned it on in a year.
Probably windows 98, I hear Delta airlines is considering, not using it anymore.
Last time I looked it was windows 11.
Oh, okay.
I've got a window 7 machine upstairs, which.
Seems to be bulletproof.
Long as you don't run on the Internet.
It's been on the Internet for at least 10 years.
Okay, since kind of a limited amount of time, let's stay focused on any questions that Ken may be able to answer.
In reference to Kvm. For beginners.
Adam.
Barring that, maybe you ought to jump into the Gui middle. I guess we will.
Before we go to the Gui middle.
Yes.
Ken, I'd like to say as somebody who's been doing.
Virtualization, multiple Hypervisors and Kvm, I think you have a very good.
One on one level. Introduction.
That I think people could use as a base to get something installed.
And kick the tires and have a starting point, which I think that is exactly what you were trying to do. So.
You, sir.
Yep.
Well, then.
Good night.
Let's see.
Will there be.
Will it be a video? Just not just slide presentation, but video as well.
Yes, that's our intention. I'll follow up on that just a bit more in a moment, Ken, before you leave. There's a question in chat at the very end.
From Nick.
If you can read it, it says.
Hold on!
Okay. I'll let you go.
You can't read it, Ken. I'll read it off.
Read it, Gary.
Read me? The yeah.
I'm not sure which one it is.
The question is, prox is built using Kvm and Lxc.
Real prox vms.
Run directly under Kvm.
No idea.
Somebody else may know the answer to that question.
I would say that.
Prox box is more a virtualization.
Slash Nascent Distro.
And it uses Kvm and Linux containers under the hood.
So.
Kvm. Running on the prox Distro.
We'll run. Kvm.
Does that help Nick?
Yeah.
Go ahead!
Can you guys hear me?
Yes, we can.
Yeah, yeah, no, that does. I'm so curious about that.
Case products goes another direction.
Becoming very popular.
Great to know.
You could.
Maybe with some small modifications.
Convert the approx vms.
Run.
Directly in Kvm.
Yeah.
That'd be nice to.
As a general rule.
There aren't that many different hypervisors. There's Vmr. Family. There's Microsoft's Hyper, V.
Kbm.
Virtual Box.
And
Zen.
Most things. Linux based.
That are wrappers around virtualization.
Are probably wrappers around Kvm.
Or possibly zen so.
I would give it a 70 to 80% chance that if it's a Linux back end and it's running vms.
It's Kvm. Under the hood.
Say.
I have one last thing.
Would the person who's gonna take responsibility for.
Putting the Pdf. Up.
Either drop me an email or put something.
In steercom.
That tells me who to send it to.
Just send it to editor.
At Sloop Org.
I can do that.
Good night, folks.
Big thing.
Johnson.
Thank you, Pam, thank you. Yay.
Thanks, man.
Okay. As I say, big. Thanks to Ken, longtime contributor group.
Connect.
Really appreciate his efforts.
Let's see, with that we are now in the Gui middle of our Oreo cookie style meeting, but that I mean we do a presentation, the basic tutorial you just saw or heard.
On the front.
We do a main presentation on the back. And here in the Gui Center we do general announcements and brief.
QA. Session.
So with that, as far as general announcements, Stan, have we got some slides for this.
You would ask me that.
I would have.
In the meantime I'll just keep until I see something on the screen.
What can we jump to? The newest Linux user question? And I've.
Kinda wanna ask if I can play a red hat new and ask one.
Okay, let's do that. We'll jump ahead 1st and do a little bit of QA. Here.
S.
Okay.
Red hat, 9, 4.
How do I rename the network interface instead of the Ens.
123-45-6789. I hate you. Name.
To Vlan. 3, 30.
What is the approved.
Current.
Red hat, method.
If nobody knows, maybe we better ask Gpt.
It is probably something in the Etsy.
Have done this for a few months, but.
There's a Cis.
I wanna say, Etsy, sis config.
The net config Directory, and there's a text file in there that has the name of the interfaces.
That harks back to what I used to do in the Rel. 7 days. But I found documentation.
From Red hat, says that method is deprecated.
Set it.
Although it is the 1st thing check.
Is this a guiless system, or do you have a gui.
It is headless. I can log into it. Manager.
Tui.
Is functional.
I would really rather not deal with. X. 11.
And fire up a gui, but.
If I have to.
Maybe.
Because I believe, and if you've got a.
Our gui desktop on it.
In the network.
Configuration thing wherever it was. Yeah, I don't have one.
I had them all over the place, and before I retired. But yeah, you could. There was an interface where you could set all of that.
By hand.
Yeah.
Well.
And you could do it. But during the install.
But.
Grant. According to the docs IP. Link set, allows you to change the name. You might want to try it.
And I at many times on many different platforms. I.
So let me refine my question. How do I do it? Persistent.
In the red hat. Methodology.
App. Okay.
So you're saying IP set is not persistent.
No, it is not. It alters the current running interface in kernel.
The IP command period.
Alters the running kernel.
Nothing about that is persistent.
Okay, the second option is put device name into Sysconfig network scripts.
Which I believe that's what I was referring to.
Yep.
And the Etsy Cisconfig.
Or synonymous to it, anyway.
The Link Sean just shared.
So is it just the name that you're.
Yeah, I'm wanting to change the interface names.
Yeah, I noticed they changed the name from I don't know. Somewhere back in 7 to 8, 9, somewhere under there.
Didn't like it, but I just said, Well, I don't care what's in a name.
I'm.
Well, in. In some cases it would be nice to change the name that way. If you've got a set of scripts.
Pointing at.
Free.
You don't have to change the script, you can just change the interface name.
To be compatible.
Yeah, that's that's fair. But
Yeah, if I had script that was configuring specific interfaces to do specific things.
But.
The use case that prompted today's question is a Vm for.
A client that is gonna have 4 or 5.
Interfaces, and I feel like.
Vlan, and the number.
Is a whole lot more descriptive Thans. 192 ens. 224.
And some others, yet to be added.
Shawn, take a quick look at the link you shared up in one.
And I believe it says that is deprecated.
Yeah.
It uses a UV rule to reference. The.
Etsy sits config network scripts. Ifg dash.
Star.
And it's saying, the you dev rule that defines that file defines that.
Is deprecated.
What about the one about renaming the files and the the Cis config network? Is that? I don't know.
It's it's config network is pulled in via the deprecated method.
Gotcha.
At least that was my understanding.
I was thinking this look pretty cool because it talked about like defining a schema and basically ha having it automatically assigned, based on the schema look pretty cool.
Yeah.
Huh!
I should undeprecate that.
Thank you.
Alright. I'm gonna jump back into doing the general announcements here.
Then catch a couple more QA. Before we go into
The least presentation.
So jumping back.
Who are you?
I am the Mc. Of the night. I'm also the president of the organization. I'm Gary Meyer also has a long beard.
Well, I don't know you. You prune back some. That other voice you're here is Lee Lambert. He's the treasure of the organization. He's the host on Zoom.
And he contributes a lot of our hardware effort.
Talk about that a little bit more in a moment.
The other voice you heard in the background was our Vice President Stan Ryker say something.
Something Stan.
There we go. Stan takes care of so much. It's hard to describe.
But he's a real workhor for this group. So thank you, Stan.
And let's see Ken Johnson, who was our tutorial presenter, our speaker, earlier.
He's the secretary of the organization.
If anyone would like to monitor the chat, we always appreciate it. If somebody keep eyes on the chat just let me know.
Like to be monitored, at least for tonight.
I'll monitor it.
Great! Thank you very much.
And topic wrangler. This is just in general somebody to help us line up speakers and I'll mention next Thursday night. Speaker. In a moment.
And again, speakers. Yeah, we're always looking for somebody who would like to present to.
Even if you just have a.
Idea for a topic, but you're not willing to present on it yourself.
It's always interesting to hear what people want to hear. And if you have an idea who might be able to present on it even better. But we'll try and find somebody if we have to.
So.
With that announcement, this organization's next meeting is 8 days from now. It is next week on Thursday.
And that is the Stl. St. Louis meeting.
Yes, that happened.
That one of our new people posted a question in chat a moment ago, asking what was the difference between a new log meeting.
And.
And the Stl. Of meeting.
That was Sebastian, I believe, and so the difference.
Is the new look or the new Linux meeting.
Of.
First, st let me say the Stlenix meeting is a presentation similar to what we're having tonight. It's got slides. It's got a speaker on a specific topic.
And if we talk about other things, that's just happenstance.
The new Linux meeting is for.
There's no specific topic set out beforehand.
And the rule of the game is, whoever comes in and.
Wants to say that they think of themselves as the.
Newest user of Linux, and they have a question.
Then the rest of our point is to try and.
Answer that question as best we can.
And hope that person understand what is so
It.
You know, there's a lot of really good information that comes out of that. It's a really amazing.
So, even though it's not a formal presentation prepared boy is a lot of good stuff that comes out of.
And it's not just for.
New people, because, as you can, you know, see.
It really helps to have.
The old timers, if I can call them that.
People who, you know, are familiar with Linux.
Because they're the ones who have to kind of come up with some of these answers.
And the amazing thing is a lot of times. The old timers are amazed because some other old timer.
We'll approach the problem completely, differently, with a completely different answer. And a lot of the old timers say they learn a heck of a lot being at the new Linux meeting. So well, means everyone, please come. That comes up 5 days after the Stl Linux meeting. It's on the 4th Tuesday of the month.
A quick reminder. Debbie and Tim long support ended already. On June the 30.th
We point that out because.
Our main server, Bach.
Is there anything.
And we intend to upgrade it to Debbie and.
So anybody who would like to be part of the team of volunteers to work on this. It's obviously.
A great exercise, and the fact that you're doing it with a bunch of other people.
You got some some people who are a little more experienced, or they've had experience on other things.
And it makes for a lot more fun to learn with the group. So you'd like to volunteer. There's a mail address org.
Drop an email in there and somebody will get back with you, and we'll.
Gets you included.
Call for any other announcements
Any other announcements. Lee.
I think we're good.
Sand.
I don't wanna put anybody in the corner.
Okay,
as I am. These announcements, we'll have a a little more quick. QA. Before we start. The next presentation.
And then, after that presentation generally, the group just.
Keeps hanging around and.
People keep asking questions. So.
There was some talk earlier about the presentation archives. We try and record all of our.
Fixed presentations. In other words, the Wednesday, Thursday Night meeting.
And we try and keep a copy of the slide deck.
Video.
And we've been putting that up on our sloop org resources, part of our homepage.
So you can go there and look back, and you'll see decades of presentations, or at least.
A number of years.
We are just now starting to put that on Youtube as well.
So that's kind of an upcoming effort there we've already got some stuff out there.
The the the breadth of our organization, called Slug.
And
Kind of.
As part of that group.
There's this general monthly meeting. As I say, this has always got.
Or almost always got a fixed presentation, usually too.
The new Linux meeting.
I'm sorry. The St. Louis Linux meeting.
Is another fixed presentation, one.
The new Linux meeting. I told you about that a second ago. That's basically whoever's the newest person in Linux. Then we go through who's an excellent newest, is ask questions.
And then the slack meeting St. Louis Area Club.
This is a bit more hardware oriented, so we'll even attempt to.
Deal with questions about oh, God! Microsoft.
Or other things. So it's a little more oriented towards the hardware.
Calendar. There is slu.org, slash, calendar.
We try and keep a calendar of anything that we think our people are interested in.
Since we're St. Louis based traditionally, that.
Had an emphasis on.
St. Louis type events. But since we're getting more and more people coming in online.
We're also trying to cover events that aren't centered here in St. Louis. But the type of material are people who are interested.
If you have a suggestion or something that should go out on the calendar send it to editor at Sloop Org.
And there is the calendar.
So it gives you an idea what's on it?
Via the top lines are usually things.
Cover the whole day, or sometimes they're historical references, those ones that usually begin with a year in front of them.
And then there's an hourly thing throughout the day.
So.
See stands, or anything else I should point out on the calendar. Oh, up there in the corner. Yes.
So it's actually 3 different calendars one is.
Our meetings, the ones that this organization runs.
That's the one that Stan has highlighted right now. They're the ones that show up in red on there.
And again, those are the meetings we run.
Different one click on the next one.
Okay. Those are St. Louis. Local meetings of.
And it used to be in the old days. Most of those were.
Physical. There are some still, some that are physical.
Some of them are now done by zoom or gits.
And she had to actually kind of just look through them and see.
If it's available or not. And the other thing on there is.
In the interim.
Oh!
Stan bumped the font a couple times. Would you please.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Anyway, those those are meetings which aren't specific to St. Louis. How much better, much better. So those are things we're definitely picking up off the web, as you notice, from the names Birmingham, Atlanta, Las Vegas so these are meetings again that we've seen.
They're available out.
By the network. And we're just thinking it's stuff that you all may be interested in.
Okay. I think that covers it.
Okay, I've lost my screen folks. Where'd it go?
Okay.
Alright
Let's see, as I said earlier. Oh, one thing Sebastian was nice enough to say, this is his 1st time with our group.
Hey? We always love new members anybody else who's new tonight, and Sebastian as well.
If you care to either turn on your mic and just tell us where you found out about tonight, or if you're shy or don't have a microphone, maybe type it into chat. We're just interested in how you found out about us. What brought you here tonight? The topic or the general interest, or whatever.
So.
Not hearing anybody turn on their mic. But anytime you interrupt me. Go right ahead. Otherwise you can type it in.
Mailing List.
Balen, List.
We. We run a couple of mailing lists the announce mailing list is very limited we usually just use it to announce important things like we got a meeting this week, or something like that.
So you can subscribe to that. You probably won't get bothered more than 2 or 3 times a month
The Discuss Mailing list. On the other hand.
Is anybody who subscribes. And it's basically just like being here as part of the QA part of the meeting. You can ask any question, make any opinion known.
Within reason of being technical and not political, whatever. So it it. There are some days.
You know, when there's no traffic. There are other days.
When you know, somebody asks something that's just a really hot topic. And all of a sudden there's 20 responses.
So you get what you get.
So.
The steering committee. If you like to see sausage being made.
Yes, join the steering committee. And so that's that's where we talk about. You know who we can get to be speakers. What type of thoughts we want things like that.
It's not an official position. It's just anybody who wants to help.
The Sys Admin list.
Or the people who keep our machines running.
And so it's a great place. If you want to sharpen your sysadmin skills. As I said earlier, you wind up working with other people. They've done a differently.
And the.
But but that's for somebody who wants to help us.
If you have a Generalist administration question, you can ask that on. Discuss.
Correct.
So yeah, the Sys Admin list is admin of our machines.
So, but it does.
Yeah.
Give you the experience that way.
Okay, next list, or next slide.
Call for help before we go. Let's see.
Our members ask questions and sometimes provide answers.
From novice to graveyards. All experience is valued.
Various use cases are interesting and instructive.
Questions, proceed, answers, questions can be asked on, discuss.
And they can also be asked here verbally.
What did you break recently.
What might.
Be able to help.
What were you trying to do? That gave this strange result.
And what was the surprising or unusual answer to your problem?
So if anybody has anything that they've broken recently this week.
This month.
You wanna tell us about it.
This is the opportunity.
I could jump on.
Sure, go, Nick.
So.
So we, the tool, go.
I had an issue.
Trying to close a drive.
Was wrapped around.
A
Cfs, partition, map.
I got some great advice.
Believe it was from Tony.
To follow some instructions to try to remove that wrapper so that
Believe I used 2 parties with C.
All the partitions on the drive.
And
Tony. I see you on it. It actually worked.
I was able to take that drive and clone it. I ended up using Dd. To do the cloning.
I just wanna take a moment to thank you for that.
Point me in that direction.
You're welcome.
I wasn't the one who did it, but whoever did.
I'm sure they'd say you're welcome.
Yeah, it was an interesting exercise. I mean, it was a test before I had a clone, something.
A lot more important, and I had some.
Funny experiences in the past where my clients didn't work out the way that I you know I intended them to to work. In fact in this go-around. It was a windows partition, and I had to resize from a floor.
Terabyte, drive.
Trying to fit for this test of 750 gig drive.
So I use G part to shrink the windows. Partition.
C, drive.
What?
I couldn't get you parted to do the cloning.
It wouldn't boot off of the clone drive.
But I ended up using Dd. And that worked perfectly.
Took a while, but it worked.
Excellent.
Yeah, really.
Which meeting was that at do you remember?
Was it the slack meeting or the new Linux user meeting that you asked that.
I think it was.
The new Linux uses about 2 weeks ago.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, it's always good to have.
You know your your expertise actually help someone.
Later on in the meeting. I'm sure.
And it got a lot of brain cells.
Juiced up and thinking about different possibilities.
I'm just glad it worked.
Yes.
And sometimes the big issue is is describing the problem.
And now.
You know it.
Sometimes there are different ways to describe, something that.
That trigger
Knowledge from somebody else.
Anymore, call for help.
While people are thinking, I'll.
Do one final piece of info that I want to put in the announcements, and that is, there are no dues to join this organization. And in fact, it's kind of just an automatic thing. If you are here.
Or any.
2 of the different 4 set meetings are even some of our special meetings.
If you're here for any 2 meetings during the calendar year.
You have the right to vote.
And that's the only way we define membership other than that. It's
Unless we decide you're being rowdy. You're here at the meeting, and we welcome you and.
Try and respect everybody's opinions on things so.
At least technical opinions.
With that any other thing. By the way, there is a like, I said. There's an opportunity for questions after the main topic.
So we can follow up on more of that if anybody needs to ask one right now.
Otherwise I'm gonna turn it over to our main speaker. The evening.
And let's see, our main speaker is Lee Lambert.
Lee's a principal at Omnich.
And Lee and his company have done incredible sponsors of the organization for years. As I say, he's hosting our our machinery right now. Our network connection.
And Lee is always.
Available to jump in help. Whatever the technical needs are, the group. So we really appreciate it.
And tonight.
He's gonna tell us his experience with artificial intelligence.
Fixing the firewall with chat, Gpt.
And with that I'll turn it over to Lee.
Alright. Gary, Gary, thank you very much.
Hey, Lee, before you start.
I'm hearing some audio artifacts.
That sounds like somebody might be eating while having an open mic.
Doing dinner, great.
Oh!
Yeah, somebody needs to mute a mic.
There we go! There we go!
Thank you.
It sounds like the.
This time. It's not me.
Alright!
Welcome!
The whole point of this presentation is, I've been playing around with Chat gpt.
And actually finding up some finding out some useful things, and.
Solving real problems with a.
In this case the example is a firewall problem.
Let's let's talk about.
First, st though, for a little bit.
You know what is chat, gpt.
Well, it is an AI tool.
It is called a chat bot, because basically, you have a conversation with it.
We also considered a virtual assistant.
It was developed by Openai and launched on November 30.th
We have heard a presentation last year. I think it was last year or last winter.
It's based on a large language model.
And it basically permits a user to.
Start a conversation and then refine it.
And hopefully, you get a result that's useful.
There are successive user prompts.
There are.
Different Stages.
Bring up a couple here for examples.
You know? I asked a question.
What is the best way to learn? IP. Tables.
And chat. Gpt replied.
A whole boilless. Understand, with documentation, use, visual tools, hands-on practice, use resources.
Analyze real world scenarios, stay updated.
Document, your learning.
To most people it's common sense. But if you're Newbie.
You know there's some good options here.
Hands-on practice, set up a virtual machine.
Begin with, basic.
Like it gives you an outline. And that was all based on a simple question, what's the best way to learn? IP tables.
If you want to change it.
You can edit it.
And run it again.
What is the best way to learn. Let's try Linux for the heck of it.
And you can get another script.
Very similar.
Similar shift.
You know, we're using very similar topics here. So a lot of the bullet points are common to both.
But the point is.
It's a conversation.
You call a conversation or chat.
Whatever floats your boat.
Now.
The big gotcha.
With any AI tool.
Is which term domain, specific knowledge.
And if you want to ask a question of an AI tool, it doesn't know what you're doing.
So you have to.
Give it enough information to figure out.
What you want to do.
If you want to ask a question about networking.
You have to provide enough information for Chat Gpt. To assemble.
The data that it has available so that it understands networking. First.st
Before can address your question.
That's very important.
You have to be able to understand the answers of Chat Gpt or the Chat Bot is providing, and then modify.
Your question.
So you might be able to usable answer.
One of the most important one is you have to be able to tell when the chat's hallucinating.
Yeah, last year, I.
So I had it right a couple. I was having a problem. I was writing a bash script to automate something.
And I had a I asked you chat Gpd. To ride it.
The script didn't work.
That's what's called a hallucination.
I got enough ideas to build from that, though.
And then you have to be able to recognize an answer. That's useful.
Apply it.
And test and verify.
Alright! If anybody wants to follow along, you point your browser chat. Gptcom.
You can.
I think it's 4 or 5 conversations a day, or something like that.
For free.
I pay 20 bucks a month.
That gives you access to a lot of stuff you don't get for free.
You get access to different chat gpts. There's a 4.
4 0, which is the current one.
There's a mini, which is a little faster.
Our legacy. Gpt. 4.
You've also got things like website generators, logo creators.
You know, you can work with photos.
There's all kinds of stuff you can do.
But.
Let's get back to the point we're looking at.
If you want to save a logo, I'm sorry if you want to set up a login, you can save sessions, but one of the other things it gives you.
Is when you are.
Working with Chat Gpt. You see the little arrow up here.
Share, chat.
You can use that to get a link.
To actually download the chat.
Here's the one we're going to look at today. Here's iptables learning.
Had it downloaded, so we can have it offline.
Here is the.
Quickie the other day.
I forgot how to put.
An IP tables at the top of the input list.
So I asked, Yeah, Gpt, what is the IP tables rule to immediately drop all traffic from an IP.
Here's the rule.
And it works.
Next one here. This is one we're going to be working with today.
So I'll get into that here in a few minutes.
Here is the one.
That somebody has asked about.
How do I rename a network interface on red hat.
As the point, you know you can do it with IP. Link grant made was.
This isn't persistent.
But there's other ways to do it. You can modify the if config rule.
And put a device equals in.
The if config file.
And that should be a permanent.
The example, here is a network we've got here in the back cave.
It's kind of complicated for people. I'll show you a diagram here in a second. But to start off with.
We have a server room.
30 years ago it was 2 ISDN lines. Once we got rid of modem.
An ethernet over copper for about 20 years.
Now it's
At. And T dedicated Internet 20, Meg in the process of switching to 50 make because it's cheaper.
And then the office has a non-dicated Internet access that runs at higher speed.
Free. For 30 years we've had charter 300.
300 down and 10 up.
Couple factors about charter.
It has a public. IP.
So the Firewall box has a public IP for the default route.
We have multiple internal networks.
I think 3 of them, if I remember correctly.
There's a fireball box between them and a standard PC. With 3 network interfaces.
And.
Historically that firewall box routed.
Traffic directly to the Dmz.
Here's a picture of us.
Our servers in the back. That's the Dmz.
We have a class C, 261-97-2514.
Currently that is running on.
Dedicated.
Fiber.
Office here, internally.
Also shares the same firewall.
I'm sorry to share the same fire. All but the firewall is also connected to the server.
This firewall box has 3 nicks.
It has a 2 0. 6 IP. From server side.
It has.
The basically the the main internal network, 10 0 0.
And it had a public IP from charter.
Work great forever.
The only problem was, every few years a charter modem would go bonkers, and I'd have to play games rebooting them 2 or 3 times.
To try to get the firewall to pull a Dhcp address from Charter.
Sometimes I set it manually, and it was a nightmare, because you, charter support, was worthless. They didn't even know what Dhcp. Was.
Or how their system works.
Yeah, I had the same experience where Charter couldn't tell me.
What IP address. They were assigning me.
So, yeah.
Yeah, cause, because nobody knows it's it's all Dhcp.
Right, but they couldn't even look in their records and see where what it was now, so that.
That's why I switched at. And T recently.
Yeah.
Not fiber, but it works.
About.
Well, the problem with at T until fiber rolled out is the speed.
So slow. The charter was a no brainer.
I agree, but.
If I needed higher when I was working it was a real problem, but when I.
Once I retired, I thought, okay, spectrum. You're done.
Well, we had.
About 2, about 8, 6 7 weeks ago.
I woke up one morning, and there was a black wire hanging between the 2 phone poles behind our house.
And I walked out there and looked at and said, fiber? I said, wow at. And T. Is here.
About a month later.
So my team, you know I.
Called at and TA couple times and went online. And hey, when can you get services? What service.
No, nobody knew there were service, or even though the fiber was on the pole.
So about a month after that happened, nice chap came walking down came.
Knocking on the door, ringing the door. But I'll say, Hey, would you like fiber? He said.
I said, come on in here, my friend, and sit down. I've been waiting for you for a month.
So what we did was.
The server side is unchanged.
Servers are still the same. Yeah.
As a dedicated link again. It's right now. It's Adi.
The upgrade was now upgraded to one gig.
And has a ONT. If nobody's seen that before, it's optical network termination.
And the firewall interface in the firewall box. I switched to 2 and a half gig.
Hold a cat 6 cable from that firewall to the ONT.
And if we're looking at the config options.
There was a server mode in the ONT.
Where.
The ONT. Would have the public IP, and it would forward any incoming traffic you can either forward all or you could forward specific ports.
To a server on the internal network.
Because of that mode. I also have 3 extra full speed, 2 and a half or 2 and a half gig ports.
On the optical box that I can just pop a cable in.
And I've got the full network speed without fooling anything here in the office.
So that seemed to provide an advantage.
This is the ONT. Here in the back room.
The green line is the fiber plug from the garage.
Lot of fun. Run a hundred and 100 foot fiber cord.
The purple one is the cat, 6 to the firewall box.
And you can see the 3 yellow ones here, which are the.
Open ports.
All I have to do is grab it, plug it in there. It'll pick up a 1, 92, 1, 68.
And you're good to go.
So the only change.
So that is a a fiber modem.
It's well it's called ONT optical network termination.
Okay.
Here's the here's the fiber line down here. The green plug.
I forget what the identifier of it is, but it's.
It's very common.
Dave.
The at T. Guy originally sold it out in the garage.
But then I realized that I could have 4 ports on it.
So I move the box down here and pulled a separate.
100 foot fiber patch from here out to the garage.
The green is referred to as angled, polished.
Or Apc. For short.
And it is an Sc. As in subscriber. Connector.
Is the physical size of it, and it's.
A very, very, very standard.
Part, and Lee, I presume you.
Use the Amazon link. I pointed you at to order the proper link.
Yeah. But I found out later that they have a different one for a little more. 10 bucks more.
And you get one that's actually in a shield.
Okay.
Which which would have been a lot better to pull because of the physical. The physical.
Conductor itself. The light conductor is a lot more robust.
In fact, he actually show you.
You know, bending it over itself and putting the poll cord on the bend.
Which amazed the dickens. But anyway.
That aside.
And I really but I do appreciate the hint.
Because that.
Gave me the idea to move it downstairs.
But anyway.
Yeah, so that purple wire above the green one. There is basically your.
Internal network that happens to the firewall. You're showing there.
Correct. Right here.
But okay, so it it kind of, I guess the the basics of my question was.
That box in the upper left is kind of sort of the modem.
Yeah.
That you had with.
Optical Modem.
Previously had with spectrum.
Chick.
But it's no longer.
There are spectrum coax that's now a fiber.
Except it's about 4 times the size.
Yeah, cause it looks kind of beefy.
Yeah, it is. It's about
Oh, 10 inches tall, 4 inches thick, and 8 or 9 inches deep.
Yeah, okay.
Yes.
So make sure you have a shelf big enough to put it on.
Well, that's actually hanging on the wall. They give you right. It comes to the right angle bracket. You screw the wall.
And then the strap here holded on a bracket, so it doesn't fall off.
Oh!
That does not come with all of them. It did not come with mine.
So, and I have the same ONT.
Huh! I I bet it was in the kit, and they and the tech either.
Had unboxed it before, or didn't bother to give it to you.
And it's interesting, though this is the same physical box.
That I've got in 2 clients.
In 2 client locations that have recently upgraded.
And so so once you learn this box, it works for any.
Yep.
Okay.
So.
Everybody's got a handle on that.
The, the.
The issue here is when we plugged in, or when I plugged in the.
Network cable to the fiber box.
Yeah. You know, I had to fool around with
Firewall little bit since I change names, but I got everything up, and running very quickly.
And I thought it was working fine for a couple weeks.
And then.
I have a little script.
On, the.
Firewall, box.
Let me find my tab here.
And see, this is the script.
Not too big.
Actually.
About 8 years ago.
My good friend Chuck was hanging around here, and he built probably 80. He built probably 80 of it, so.
He's got to get it for that. But he didn't. He didn't.
Didn't want credit, because I think some of it was kind of ugly.
But anyway.
You know, this is what's been running for 8 years.
You know I've been. I play with it a little bit.
You know I.
At 1 point our alarm company needed access to.
Manage the the panel remotely.
But since then they've gone to cloud service. So I don't even need to open the ports anymore.
Most of most of it's fairly simple.
And
One of the one of the things we did find out.
Was.
Every once in a while it stopped working. At 1 point.
Couple years after, after we had done.
And come to find out that.
When we did it.
IP. Forwarding.
For some reason was on by default.
And then all of a sudden it was turned off after an update.
So.
Once we figured out what was going on. The force in here.
Where every time you run a script it sets IP sets. IP. Forward to one.
Anyway, this is the IP table script.
And.
Hermes is the Cisco router in the back room that handles the.
Server, side.
Notice that.
Well, actually, I at 1 point.
I was. I was seeing a delay, because every day, every hour, I'm going from the internal network to the mail server which is in Iraq, in the back.
And I was seeing some pretty long delays, you know. At some times it was like 2 or 3 seconds.
You know, do something, and wait a long time to reply, and.
Got
Little.
Pepe did it at 1 point, and I started investigating. I was seeing ping times like.
40, 50, 80 seconds, sometimes over, or milliseconds, sometimes over a second. So I did a trace route.
And.
Noticed.
That.
Trace route from internal to Dmz.
Was going out the default route.
1, 2, 50, tor.
2, 54 is the ONT, the.
If I remote them.
And was going out on the.
On the fiber.
Coming back around and then coming in.
Through, at t, on.
Their network side.
Which is.
Is not good.
So.
I think we've covered most of this ONT. Like, I say, using the private IP network, gave me access to the 3 other ports on the box.
And when I did it I didn't think there was a problem. But when I found a problem, then I wanted to fix it.
That means the default route is now and off net route.
The firewall IP. Is 100. The ONT. Is 1.2 4.
What, Lee? What do you mean by off off route.
Off net 1, 92, 1, 68 is a private IP address. It's technically called off net.
It's not routable.
Okay.
Right.
Just like 11, 9, 2, 1, 68, and there's a 1, 70.
1, 72, class speed. This is the class C.
Okay.
So.
The issue is.
The default route should not be carrying Dmg. Traffic.
Right.
Because normally.
Though you know the the trace should be right there.
In fact, did I have that over here.
Hours from here to the rack.
Is one hop.
Point 9 ms.
From my workstation.
It's 1.2 ms.
It's actually 2 hops, because the marvel is a firewall box. He's in the middle.
That's the way it should look.
Not.
You know. 30 what we got here? Time 2, 3 and a half, 5.
1520, like 25, ms.
Not acceptable.
I started to play with it I started to play with some of the.
Now.
Rules.
And.
I figured out part of it. I couldn't figure out the rest of it.
So I decided, well.
Which assat gpt.
Here we go!
Given this network configuration.
And I'm just asking about internal external. And Dmz.
Because those are the 3.
Interfaces here on the firewall.
In other words, one's a Dmz. One's the internal, one's the external.
What are the IP table statements to redirect traffic from intern to Dmz for the subnet of.
Direct.
And the Dmz.
And.
Catch. Gpt said, well, first.st
Make sure forwardings on.
That we did.
Notice that this isn't the right way to do it, though.
Because proc is transient.
So every time you reboot the machine it's not. It's going to go away.
Which is why I put the statement in the Ib tables.
And so we want to modify.
Pitch firewall.
The intern interface is ETH. 2. The Dmg is ETH. 0, and this is the subnet out there.
So basically, we want an IP tables rule.
To on the forward chain.
From internal net.
To Destin for the Dmz.
Of that subnet, except.
And then on the return hop.
We want to accept packets coming back if they're established.
Accept him on the way back.
And again this is Chat gpt.
One, try.
With.
2 2 setup prompts.
And then the question.
Amazed the devil out of me. I'll tell you.
And even get a good explanation here.
So I tried that.
And let's see, I have.
That's the original.
One is the updated one.
Are noticed.
Let's jump over to.
Show up over tomorrow.
Okay.
Here's the updated script.
I have my subnet to find.
Here are the 2 statements.
In other words, accepting accept traffic from Dmz to subnet.
And.
Except established traffic.
From.
Dmg. To intern.
Right.
You might see a problem with that. It didn't work.
On the surface. I agree with the rules, but that's in a vacuum, and I have not analyzed the rest of your tables. So.
Well? I asked. Chat gpt.
Sorry does not work.
All traffic incoming on intern still routes to external gateway. What could be wrong.
This is the exact.
Problem.
That.
The ONT created.
Because the private IP. On the firewall.
Will that.
Trigger forwarding.
Because it is an off net address, and it is not a route.
So you have to add a static route.
2, that 2 0. 6 subnet to the Dmz.
On at 8 0.
And let's see.
And so those are 2. Those are rules we had up top.
If we looked at the route.
And added.
And I see we got IP forward, still.
So basically.
I added a route down here.
IP route add subnet via ethere.
Which added the static route. Here.
And that fixed the problem.
I have.
I understand why it fixed it.
I don't understand how you got to a scenario where the 2 0. 6 address.
Where you didn't have an address, or I'm sorry. A route.
For a locally attached link.
Because there is no route. If you just have an IP address.
That's.
Hi! Everyone.
Go back to your prompt. You should have it.
Go back to your command. Prompt.
IP route show table, local.
His IP address is 2 52.
On the Dmz. Side.
So you should have inherently had.
Something happened to your routing table.
Because.
Linux by default.
When you add an IP address.
To an interface.
It adds.
The local and the broadcast.
And the network.
4.
The interface. You're for the network you're adding to the interface.
And the route command that it had you do was re-adding.
That local.
Sub, now.
I understand what you're saying.
Except.
It did work.
When the default route was a public IP.
Right. It doesn't matter. The so the default route.
On marvel.
Which is your firewall.
Is where it sends.
Traffic that it doesn't have another route to. That's where default comes into play.
Right.
It could have had a route.
To the 2 0. 6 subnet as directly.
Of one of the interfaces.
And if it lost that route somehow.
Yeah, it would fall back to the default.
But.
Balancing that interface.
Or rebooting the router. I'm sorry the firewall.
Should have brought that.
IP. Address and route back.
Yeah.
It didn't.
I don't.
That I don't know.
Yeah, I understand why it had you run that command.
I don't understand how you got into a situation where you needed.
To run, because, like, you could recreate your problem.
By removing the 2 0, 6.
From your local routing table. And anyone, you added.
From the main routing table, which is what you're showing. There.
Maybe route delete.
At IP.
In front of it.
Okay.
So do I.
Route Show Table Local.
And.
So.
The 0 interface. Can you shut it down like, if config down, and then it config that interface back up without.
Adversely affecting what you're doing.
I do a fashion.
Fair enough, now, sure.
And there's functionally back.
Take it down.
Show your local route table and bring it back up. And I bet while it's down that local.
2 0, 6, 1, 9, 7 won't be there.
Hmm.
Yeah, it's it's down.
But it's it's in the in the route table.
Alright!
Different kernel version.
When you took it down it. Okay.
This is 5, 14 still.
I haven't upgraded.
Fair.
If you want to play.
I would remove that IP from it. Make sure the routes gone.
We add the IP. Bring me in and bring the interface up, and it should come back. But I don't wanna hijack presentation.
No, that's okay.
As long as that's the only thing I take down.
Yeah.
IP adder.
Delete.
The 2 0. 6. Whatever it is.
Space dev 0.
So, and it should be gone. Do an ipad or show.
And it is I no longer see it on there. Do an it route, show table local.
And it is gone.
Now.
Do an ipad, or add.
Yeah, and add your slash. 24 on the end of the IP.
And make sure the link is up.
Did he come up.
Scroll up a little bit.
Yep.
Do an IP route.
Table, local.
And.
You have your local and your broadcast back.
Which is what I would expect, pinging it.
From that machine, and then.
I'm surprised you have that.
Sort of surprised. You have that device in your main table.
But.
Try the ping from your or trace route from your works.
Hang up, hang on a second.
Sure.
I don't know.
So why would it work now, when it, when it hasn't worked for.
Last month.
I don't.
I don't. Yeah. It's weird.
You get the feeling.
That there's.
Aliens inside the networking system.
No, not aliens.
I would actually.
So Lee was your old.
Non.
Server Internet connection. You're.
Whatever you have that you replace with the ONT. Was it configured.
I would be willing to bet your Dhcp. Client is to blame for this messing with your routing table when it brought up.
The.
Interface.
Oh, okay, that's the other way around.
It was Ghcp. Originally.
The the Charter interface was Dhcp. Which is a major pain in the but.
Because they change. Ips like once every 2 years.
Yeah.
And when it changes sometimes, you know you, it'll grab it sometimes. It won't.
So the the DH client.
On the charter, IP.
Actually fix the routing table.
When it got an IP, whereas.
Now.
When it's static.
It. It won't.
Is, that.
Is that what we're we're concluding.
Well, I was going with your Dhcp. Client was messing with something, but.
Maybe.
It's too little too late to.
Truly diagnosed would happen, because we can't.
Easily reproduce it.
But.
Stock, Linux.
Network.
When you have.
The 206-19-7251 dot.
2 52, slash, 24.
On an interface.
You should have your.
Main, IP.
Plus the network and the broadcast and the local table.
Okay.
So.
Something squirrely, and the route command it gave you.
Re-added.
One of those 3 routes.
So it gave you the right answer, but 0 hence, as to how you got into a situation.
Where it wasn't there.
Got it.
Okay. Well, Chad Gpt was happy, and it worked so.
Well, you didn't ask that question, you know. If he asked
You know why is, why do I need that command?
Then maybe it would have answered.
This setup ensures any traffic from intern for the 2 0. 6 routes for the Dmz.
That.
Is.
Not completely accurate. But yeah.
Like, if you've got a system on intern.
That actually uses a default. Router.
The box you're working on won't see the traffic.
Let's hope.
Right.
I have a question, why do you need that inbound, or the that one the one that's the established one? Why do you need that I thought that once you established a connection that, like replies were automatically.
No.
Good to go. So why do you need that bottom line there? The very bottom line.
No raw IP tables.
The inbound reply.
By default is not allowed, you allow it with established or other more explicit rules.
Yeah, well, to and to answer your question. A lot of tools.
If you, if you.
Create this scenario. It'll automatically create scenario.
But if you're doing, if you're doing it at the lower level like this, you have to have to create both of them.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
One of the things that I think is interesting is.
Established. Yes.
Why is it still telling you to add related.
Related is, as far as I'm concerned.
Mostly not needed anymore. That was for things like Ftp. Where it was multi port. And you had Nat helpers in Colonel.
To realize. Oh, this other.
New flow is about to come through. It's related to.
An existing flow.
And for the last number of years I've actually had those related and established as separate rules.
For counters.
And related, is.
Such a small. The counter unrelated is such a small number compared to established.
Lately. I've not even been putting related, and I have not found any.
Problems with it.
Jack, can you ask it that I'm curious what what it would say about why, that is related.
If you saw this chat.
Somewhere.
Grand Lunch.
Are they from the Kremlin.
Okay. Everybody.
Anybody have any questions about the problem, the solution, or.
Zoom.
Anything else? We can answer.
Have have you compared chat gpt to like a Gemini or the Bing one.
No, I would not touch a Microsoft if you paid me.
Oh, and I have not. I do not use Google either.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
I. I I think the Microsoft one is the best one on the market, because it uses Chat gpt under the hood, but also it provides references.
I was subscribed to the Chat Gpt. One, but.
Not providing references makes me not trust it compared to Jim and I and Bing, which do provide sources so I can click on the sources and.
Know if it's hallucinating to me or not. So.
Just something to consider. I understand your your hangups, though.
No, it's it's not a hangup. It's just I.
I don't have. I have. I have a habit of not using those.
Manufacturers, so I don't know.
Jim, and I don't even I don't even know how I use it. You wanna show it for a second.
Is is just the same gemini on google.com, or something. It's it's not. It's like the exact same.
It just gives links at the bottom. So.
So it'll give you a link at the bottom of like where it pulled. The answer from. Ming does the same thing.
Gives you a link at the bottom.
And I usually, if it's even slightly.
Off I will!
I'll click the links and double check.
Well, a lot of times I'll ask the same question to like multiple AI. And that way I can like.
I'm hoping they're not all gonna hallucinate the same way at me. So if they if they're different, then I can.
I can.
Interesting it. Jim and I created a whole set of rules here.
And let's see.
Hopefully spot the hallucinations sometimes.
Google Tag manager is the only obnoxious Javascript.
Yeah. The thing about Gemini Geminis claim to fame is, it's got a much.
Much.
Much bigger context, window.
So you can.
Put a lot bigger. Prompt was a lot more data.
But I haven't really.
That's you know.
Found a use for that yet.
This is.
Yeah, so.
There's the references I was talking about down there.
These 2.
Is these 2 blue boxes down here? What you were talking about? That's where it got its information.
At least some of it. Yeah, at least some of the information from this will have come from those links. Yeah.
Okay.
Stan, did you have a question.
Yes!
Is under brave. Did they have a thing called Leo? Is that a chat.
Ai of some kind.
Anybody, know.
Yeah. Brave is.
Adding some AI.
To their search or going to be so. I'm sure they have something.
Okay. Thank you.
I don't know if it's Leo
I, personally.
I'm trying. I'm not a fan of the.
Chat.
Yeah, I.
Any of them.
So the really cool thing that I wanna try next. So both Jim and I and Chat Gpt have the thing now where you can.
Have a conversation.
With them. So you download the app.
And you could start up just a regular conversation and like it'll start responding to you after you ask question.
And you can like interrupt it by like asking a follow up question. So it'll notice that you're talking now, so it'll shut up, and then it'll respond to your follow question that you interrupted it with, and stuff like that. So.
I think that could be really interesting, like.
You know, while I'm doing the dishes or something just kind of.
You know, quizzing, or.
You know, while I'm driving on the highway, or something, you know, quizzing chat gpt about something that I need to.
Okay, might have.
Might have to try it so.
Understand, for work, or whatever you know.
Maybe other people are interested. Maybe we can have a shootout here at a future session.
Come up with some good use cases and compare Chat, Gpt and Gemini.
A friend of mine was saying he was using Chat gpt.
For what I would have used a search engine for, and I asked him why he used it.
His response was because it has fewer pads.
See! Oh, a few.
But I don't. I don't see ads, anyway. That's why I don't use chrome.
Yeah, I'm I'm at the point where.
I wish that I would like.
Whenever I Google something. Now, I want like a little nag box to like, come up. Say, are you sure you wouldn't rather ask an AI about this, because.
You know.
Cause. I still find myself googling things out of habit, when I can generally get a better answer more quickly from asking an AI.
I'm.
Tending to add, I think it's Udm equals 14 to the end of a URL for Google to turn off.
Their AI.
To turn it off.
Yeah, when it you do a search in Google Com, it is including AI results by default. If you append.
Ampersand, Udm equals 14, I believe.
It redoes. The query without AI results.
Why would you use Google? In the 1st place?
Reasons.
I still find.
That Google has the deepest.
And best Corpus.
For much of what I'm looking for.
Yeah, but it's you've got for an order, magnitude, more crap to wait through to find something that's useful.
The things I'm searching for are domain specific enough.
It's usually not that much crap.
I mean, it's the same 5.
Basic tutorials, copy pasta.
Season, to flavor.
But.
I still find it's.
Better. I've tried duct. Go. I have been using Brave recently.
And I keep finding things that.
They have one or 2 results that are no value. And if I go to Google as a fallback.
I find.
One to 2 orders of magnitude.
More.
Germane results.
Huh!
I'm not 100% sold on.
At least for the work that I do.
Which is technical.
Although slower, I enjoy calling through the farms.
Hosting, some.
Specific issues. I'm having.
Before I.
Solely on.
See.
For instance, one of the.
Queries that I recently posted to Joe, and I was.
Creating, a split.
School.
Model.
And no matter how much information I gave it, and it was specific to my hardware.
Dns servers that was set up on the.
Things like that. I feel like I just can't.
But Bob.
Lot of other things.
Without my recipe and stuff as a failure.
Yeah, it's really, you know, AI is the best. That idea, right? Like just giving you ideas that you can go build on like yourself, like.
A obviously Lee is like a old hat giving these presentations. But you know, like, before I give a presentation, I usually ask an AI like, hey! What are some.
Tips to make and a presentation, you know, more interactive or more engaging, right? And it's just gonna rattle off, you know, 5 or 10 ideas.
And I'm probably gonna throw away, you know.
80% of them. But there might be one or 2 that actually incorporate. You know.
Yeah, no, I I kind of like the gemini here better than chat.
Only because it organized the rules. Better.
Because you've got all your allow established, and one stanza.
Then you've got individual.
Are.
Traffic allows.
And then you got Nat on a separate one down here with comments.
Yeah. And you didn't give this one your pre prompts with your subnet and all that. You didn't do that on this one I want. I wonder if you did that if you did even better result or.
Or what.
Yeah, I probably would.
Okay.
Alright mio.
So.
Someone mentioned that it shows some references.
Where it's pulling this information from.
That's it.
I don't see that there.
Yeah, these little squares down here at the bottom.
Okay.
They're they're all the references down here.
Yeah, okay.
That I like, I mean, so you can basically dig a little deeper.
Clicking on one of those links.
How to get an idea that it's culminating data from.
You know.
Recent.
I had some issues with that, too, like I always wondered, where is.
Where is it? Pulling.
Lot of its knowledge.
Base phone.
To.
What versions and things like that.
I've added.
Come back with technical questions, that.
Probably would have worked if I was on a certain version.
3 or 4 years ago, but not.
Necessarily want to.
So I kind of like that. It provides the references.
Either way. It gives you good baseline.
I had to go buffalo.
What's your work?
Sebastian had a good comment in the chat.
K's. Ki is especially helpful when you're unfamiliar with the subject.
As it often provides a solid point, and guides you toward better understanding.
And I think.
That is probably true.
I've just seen some.
Very questionable hallucinations.
And.
Things that I've seen, recommendations from areas that I consider myself.
On!
More skilled than the average person.
I would not.
What it is encouraging.
Yeah. But I think for tech stuff, it's so easy like, especially for code. Right? Cause.
With code.
It's gonna give me a suggestion. And I'm immediately gonna test it out right like, I'm immediately gonna type it into my ide. And I'm immediately gonna run it.
Who I run the tests or whatever, and I'm immediately gonna see whether it was a good, whether it was, you know, hallucination or not.
Oh, either that or my id itself is gonna flag it, as you know, or the compiler will flag it as, Hey, this won't even run, you know.
And so I just think for code and for stuff like that, you're immediately gonna test it out.
It's just so good for that, you know, versus.
You know a lawyer. You don't. Wanna you know, if you think about the feedback loop for a lawyer, you know how you.
You, you know, use something that Gpt said. Then you try to court, and then.
You know, the feedback loop is so much longer, so it's so much costlier the hallucination. So anyway, I think us and Tacker and the.
And did that term.
I think one of the most recent things I've seen.
Was like asking which number is larger.
9.1.
Or 9.2.
And the AI said, 9.1 is a bigger number.
Then 9.2.
Like it.
Doesn't have basic math.
Haley, would you mind typing that in right here.
Is there any like if we try that right now? Just I'm just curious.
I think the reason on the number thing is because it's designed around a language.
Interpretation.
Instead of a mathematical interpretation of.
What you asked.
I'm.
If the the question is, What's what is larger mean in language compared to which is a larger mathematical.
Number.
So you know which.
Which takes up more space on the written line.
Alright!
When you type it out.
There, which is larger, 9, 1, 1, or 9, 2 0.
Oh, 2 0.
Oh, come on! How do I get.
I can't.
And I've seen with.
And they say 9. Do they mean to say 9.0 2.
No.
It.
I can try to find the screenshot of it.
Hang on a second. Why, why can I not edit the prompt.
It's hallucinating in a weird way.
Your cursor is at the beginning of the lion. Can you just.
No, I can't move it.
Arrow over.
Sebastian, if you have microphone.
Go ahead and jump in.
Thankfully. Thanks 1st for your interested.
What I found this group made up.
But I want to like share a little bit how I I got here.
I knew that I knew that noting community will find me. So one afternoon I set out to find out as many English speaking Linux communities like as I could.
Because I'm a software development student from Peru. I'm really passionate about Linux.
So my goal is to learn as much as I can improve.
To improve my community, and sharing how some Linux is.
So.
Like, I was saying, it's it's great to find it is like this, because back home.
The only if I have near.
It's like.
Windows.
Same, and I'm not like interested in that.
And connecting with the rest and.
I I don't know.
More, with more.
People with more experience with the Linux is really important to me, so I'm eager to prove my English.
While diving deeper into my Linux journey.
So.
That's who I am.
Welcome to the group.
Sign up mailing, list ask questions.
Join the meeting.
Thanks.
Thank you, Sebastian. We appreciate your input.
Where's home?
Baru.
Opere.
Interesting.
Cool.
Latin, America. Yeah.
Are you there now, connecting remotely, or are you here.
Yes, I'm I am.
Bury. I'm based right now.
Okay.
Cool.
So.
i i i think.
I think we're international now.
It's metal for further distance. I think so.
Sebastian. We were just doing a quick calculation. We think you get the medal for the farthest distance 10 B. Tonight. So.
Cool, cool.
Go ahead and give him the cookie that is the bookend, and.
Squishy metal.
Just just a reminder. These these meetings are video recorded, and it will post it on our.
Archives, page.
And at some point they'll be punched up on.
Youtube.
Yeah, what I would say is that. And also, you know, if you like doing these things, you know, don't think you need to be like a 30 year old. There, you know there a veteran of the industry like Lee, in order to give presentations to like
Yeah. Even beginners to Linux can give good presentations and give their spin on things as well. So you know, if that is something that interests you, you know. I'm sure you would have something worthwhile to share, you know. Maybe.
You know, whenever you think you're ready.
Alright. Anybody else specifically, or should we stop the recording.
That would be awesome.
Well, it. I'm gonna ask you to repeat something you said earlier. I had somebody send me a direct message.
Asking how they could participate, or.
Shoulder surf. The Bach upgrade.
So if you could do that, 45 second spiel again.
Basically, we have a mock is a Vm here in the shop.
And it is Debian. 10 obviously needs upgrades. But we have a couple of interesting.
Situations.
Number one.
We found out when we did a test, that.
If we do a disk upgrade from.
10 to 11.
Mailman goes away because it's python 2.
I think.
Mike came up with a solution. But we haven't tested it yet.
But the bigger bigger problem is.
We're thinking we want to go to Mailman 3, because Mailman 2 goes away with that being 11.
But I believe somebody said to Mailman 2 comes back, and Debbie and 12. So.
I thought that was.
Post strict admin.
And.
It might have been Grant.
But anyway, we've got some significant issues to work out.
And I'm not sure we have a good work plan right now.
So.
Sebastian is asking in the chat.
Where can we get.
More information about participating the notes and everything.
Aye.
Like if he.
Judge, join sismann.
Probably.
And we do most of our discussions on Sysm.
And you can look through the archives there.
And see all of our discussions for the past 6 months.
Pretend I've forgotten how to join, says Admin. How would I do that?
Send an email to me, and I'll I'll drop you in there because the hidden list.
Okay and info, add or.
What?
Andro should be used.
In info is fine, could forward it to me.
Okay.
Thanks. Grant.
Team effort.
Yeah, there you go, sean part in the chat.
And if you're subscribed to discuss.
You could very easily say, Hey, how do I get subscribed to Sys Admin, or.
Steercon, or whatever, and or would you please? And almost certainly somebody will.
Get your message to the right people.
A.
Well
Any other questions that we need to discuss tonight for a couple of suggestions that we can
Shut down the recording at least.
Any objections to shutting down at this point.
Hearing, none.
Okay, I'm gonna suggest this is going to be the end of the recording for tonight. This is Wednesday.
August the 14, th 2,024.
It is the monthly St. Louis Unix users group slug.
It's our General meeting Monthly.
And our presentations tonight. Ken Johnson did the basic tutorial on the front of the meeting.
His topic was Kvm. For beginners.
Colonel Virtual Machines.
And our main topic tonight was done by Lee Lambert.
And Lee told us all about using or say fixing firewalls with chat. Gpt.
We'll introduce a little use of AI. And all this so.
Or current topic.
Thanks for both presenters, thanks to all of you who were here tonight. So many of you contributed.
Both typing stuff in or voicing stuff over the thing, and.
Everybody did a great contributions. So thank you all for coming. And oh, and next Thursday night is the St. Louis User Group meeting it also will be a presentation style meeting. However, I don't yet have a specific title topic.
Speaker so yes, if anyone would like to volunteer contact me or contact editor, it's Luke Dotorg, and we'll get something set up otherwise, in the next day or so I'm sure I'll get something nailed down, and we'll get us speaker and a topic set for next
Pardon me, just don't nail your foot out.
Okay, thank you all. And we'll turn off the recording.