Okay, this is the monthly meeting of the St. Louis Linux users group that is the 3rd Thursday of the month.
This is. Thursday, the 20th of June, 2024. St.
Louis Linux user group, and our main topic, our only topic tonight. Is a discussion of how to upgrade our server, the SLU server, BOC.
By name and we're going to go from W at 10 to Debian 12. And Lee's going to explain Lee Lammert and is going to lead our discussion with the help of a number of other people.
We hope of how we're going to go about doing this. A bit of a live demo. Before that, may go through some.
Notes and introductions. Introduction, our chairman of this log is James Conroy.
See, you say hi, James. Changes and then what they said okay I'm Gary Meyer I'm the MC Our host is Lee Lammert.
He's the principal at Omni Tech. Omniac is our wonderful sponsor who provides the the virtual hardware.
At home for our our systems. So big thanks to Lee and his company for, taking care of us for many years.
I'll leave also the Treasury Organization. Production, or by executive vice president, Stan Reichard. Production understates what actually goes on.
There is so much stuff that happens behind the scenes as far as archiving stuff, editing stuff, recording stuff.
Promoting stuff. And Stan just really covered a whole lot of production issues. Thank you very much, Stan.
Let's see. If someone would like to volunteer to just kind of monitor the chat just in case, I missed something in chat.
Kind of a good role just to somebody's paying attention to somebody. Doesn't break in locally.
It's nice if somebody can tell us there's something waiting for us to chat. Not specifically for tonight, but long term, topic, we could really use some help.
Finding somebody to recruit speakers organized speakers get things planned out of the calendar of what's coming up.
Who might be available to speak on different topics. And so that would really be appreciated and of course speakers.
We've been putting on basically 3 presentations a month and It does account or 2.
2 meetings, the Slack, the other, I'll get to those a second here coming up.
But yeah, we basically need 3 different people, 3 people a month. To do a talk and so There's plenty of room if you would like to talk on something contact me or Stan and you send something the editor @sloop.org and we'll try and get something lined up for you.
With you. Okay, announcements. 5 days from now, the 4th Tuesday is the new Linux meeting.
The rules of the new Linux meeting is whoever. Considers themselves the most novice user gets to ask the 1st question and people work on coming up with some sort of an answer to that until that gets.
Addressed and they go to the Second. So it's a great place for newbies. If I can use that term to come, but also by all means if you're a more experienced user, you're the ones who come up with the answers.
And it really kind of fun for you too because it's amazing sometime. How a simple question generates.
Multiple different answers and a lot of times as a more experienced user as you go. I didn't remember you could do it that way or I didn't know that.
So all of us learned something and the older people, more experienced people contribute quite a bit that way. Slack meeting is usually the 1st Thursday of each month.
Slack is a St. Louis area computer club. It's more of a hardware. So yes, we'll even talk about Microsoft.
And Like I say, more hardware, not specifically a Linux topic. But, Certainly Linux is discussed a lot.
Slew general meeting is the second Wednesday of each month. That's then our, monthly meeting for years.
And we got it split to a tutorial and a main topic almost months. And so yeah, it's always the second Wednesday.
Let's see. Anybody got any other announcements that they like to, up at this point?
While people are thinking, I'll just mention a couple things from the calendar. Our calendar. See, the Good.
I'm not giving the exact date. We'll find it. But, Bob Beamer died 20 years ago.
You're saying, who's be a pop emer? Why am I talking about him? Because Beamer was Probably the grandfather of BI.
I mean, he He wrote, what, look very similar to VI or VM editor put that out on the GCOS operating system, the General Electric was building based out of Phoenix, but he was doing some work here in St.
Louis before we died. And so we was in town a lot, stopped by Saint Louis you. And company called Unicorn, Unicon here in St.
Louis. And, so we got to run into him a number of times. He's a good guy.
Kind of a real rack on tour. You can tell you all kinds of storage. Let's see.
So 55th anniversary in the somewhere here in the next 2 weeks of the unbundling of software from hardware.
It was part of the IBM. Anti-trust suit. They said, okay, we won't require you to.
To buy the software from us. And obviously that changed the whole nature of the computer industry. The the idea that you didn't have to buy.
Software from the same companies who bought hardware was that and now we presume that but 55 years ago that was a radical idea.
The other week we had a talk about. Scott Granner was telling us about the history of computers, spent a lot of time.
On how Microsoft kind of became the rival to CPM. CPM was the operating system. It was 50 years ago.
In the next couple of weeks here that, they 1st started work on CPM. So, shows you how far we've come.
Along 35 years ago was a computer fraud act. Federal act. And it was the 1st conviction actually on computer products.
And 50th anniversary. Of the internet, is coming up here in the next couple weeks. So.
It's only been 50 years that we've been doing all this stuff. And they use that at the date because, UCLA put out a press release basically and called the internet.
If there's great connection to use.
That's the calendar. All the dates I just specify or mentioned are labeled there as one of the header lines.
Where it gives a either a date or a comment like 50 . A anniversary let's see what stands doing there.
Is if you go up to that upper right hand corner, you can click and you can choose different things there.
So you can say that you just wanna see. The groups that we sponsor, that's the red ones, as the sloop sponsored talks, or you can click that one and that's the talks that are.
Here in the St. Louis area. And We're trying to divide that up into what events might.
Really be here in St. Louis versus the remote ones. Got a little got a little sloppy with that right now but we're trying to get that cleaned up and really distinguish better between out of town, And let's see, anything else I need to point out on the calendar stand or jump back to the agenda?
Okay.
And in July. Let's see, July the 4, th 1st Thursday of the month, it's Independence Day, so it's a holiday.
And, July the 5th is the 1st Friday of the month. And July the 5th is the next Slack meeting.
It will be held on Friday. The 5th of July. So it's a holiday weekend. So make sure you somehow fit that into your schedule.
Okay, time for the call to help. Okay, help. Anybody have anything, anything at all?
Doesn't have to be. Apropos to tonight's talk, but just if you'd like to tell us.
What you've been doing or what isn't working. Anybody has any ideas and what might put you in the right direction.
That was the top.
Go ahead, open your mic and tell us what you're thinking. Asking.
Okay, I'll get a couple more seconds to think about. I'm gonna jump back to that one last line.
Go back. Okay. We also obviously tonight's topic is we're upgrading, our own box system.
And it'd be nice to have some more volunteers. One more people to. Actually participate in this understand how we're doing it actually put fingers to keyboard and get it done so anybody who feels motivated to volunteer you can either voice up tonight or send a email to editor@sloop.org.
And we'll, we'll get you lined up with Lee and the other volunteers and triumph pull this together.
Would anybody like to be our nokeaker tonight?
Okay. I can do that if you can, if you don't. Talk to fast.
Well, you, you don't need to take. Hard notes, but basically. If you look at the wiki, and let's see, are you up to it?
Let's where Gary finishes this part. And then I'll get you set up here in a few minutes and we can do it.
Alright.
Do you know what's going on Okay, Gary, keep on. I already kind of described the, the different groups there.
As I mentioned, this is the actually the log meeting the St. Louis Linux meeting tonight. And we try and do mostly Linux presentations on Thursday night.
Every now and then we have to bury. A new Linux user group. It's a beginners workshop.
It's not a SET presentation. And the slack sandwich area computer club again it's a configuration workshop there aren't reset topics or presentations it's just whatever the people who come that I wanna talk about discuss.
Try hardware wise. Calendar, we showed you some of the stuff on the calendar. The sloop specific meetings are in red.
And if you know of any other meetings by all means, send a note to editor, sloop.org, we'd love to put things that would be of interest to our people.
Okay.
And somebody jumped on there. Okay, presentation archives we try and record all of our meetings if possible.
Trying to keep video. And we try and keep it in archive and you can go. On the sloop.org homepage at St.
Louis Linux homepage and can see the archive and access them by clicking. On the presentations there.
And listed at the end of each of, at the end of each of those home pages of the slug and the STL Linux.
And there's a sample of URL. We'll get you there
Mailing lists, we run a number of list serves. And you can sign up right there.
Where it gives you that URL that you can sign up on. The purpose of these each one is a little bit different.
Be announced. It's very limited traffic. It doesn't come out any more than. Maybe twice a month that used to come out about once a week.
But it basically the announced basically is pointing out briefly, usually, you know, here are some things that are coming up this week.
So, So that's the purpose of announce, like I say, not much traffic.
And you basically have to be an approved sender to send stuff up. Discuss on the other hand is an open general discussion.
Okay, opinions, questions. Blow ups, rants. And, but you learn a lot.
I mean, somebody asked a question and again, it's 1 of those things where a lot of people may answer.
Or maybe only one person answers, but he's got the lucky, right idea. So, it's a good thing to be in.
It's an email thing. Sign up for it. If you don't like it, you can drop it.
Yeah, try and keep it to technical discussions. Steering committee. For those of you who don't like seeing sausage being made we try and keep the organization of this group.
Oh, separate from the technical content. But we're not trying to keep it secret. So there's a stereic video mailing list.
Where we talk about how to organize these meetings, what topics to talk about, what to do. And we also have a monthly stirring meeting.
Again, not secret, you can come. And, so yeah, if you're interested seeing the sausage, by all means, please join us your accomplice.
Next call for help. Okay, before we go on, this is your last chance to ask a question.
Well, not your last chance actually after we get done tonight. Those who aren't burned out ready to head off.
Usually wind up sticking around for a while and chatting afterwards but You have any call for help question, something that, this point in the evening.
What try and get some early voices on, now is your time. What did you break recently?
Okay.
What cases you found interesting or instructive. What are you trying to do that gave you strange results?
What's been surprising, unusually hard to answer.
Still, nobody has it. Call. Okay. Hey, topics, for this meeting, the St.
Louis Linux user group meeting the log, we Usually try and keep it on Linux. And, you frequently gets to be more advanced or detailed topics.
Or something that's breaking the new or profound. Timely. So. Those those are the things which we hope to address on evenings like tonight.
The presenter would, ideally send some notes. Pdfs. Scripts, slides, and, will, include those in our archive.
We do have some for tonight, which I think you'll be impressed with. It's a nice, A nice ride.
And, presenter may ask the audience to hold questions to the end. I think tonight we It's going to be more of a boy if you got a thought.
Just raise your feet hook and open your mic and say, hey, I've got an idea. It's afterwards after.
Oh, you asked currently.
Anytime, anytime.
Okay. Slide 13.
Yeah, next slide.
And okay, I think I've asked for questions a couple of times. Not hearing any. I think I'm gonna turn it over to Lee Lambert and he's gonna take us into the world of upgrade Debian 10 to, Alright, folks.
Is not a presentation. This is a working session. We have.
Let's see, where's my other?
I forgot to log in. As we saw last time. Okay. V.
M which is currently running. This is the production VM on BACK. His back on a Just on a server in the back room.
And we have Bach 2. Block 2 is a clone of Bach. They both been updated today and they are both current.
The only thing Bach 2 is missing. Is about a month of history. On the lists and things like that.
So box 2 is not the target. In other words, we can't upgrade back to and then swap them because Bach 2 has not been tracking.
The production. Our intent is to perform the upgrade on. Take good notes, which Steve is gonna be doing here in a minute and we'll set that up.
And then we repeat that process with the regular box. That way we always have 2 machines running. And in addition to which
Let's see what's the best way to do this.
Okay.
Okay. Okay.
In this directory. On the server. This is the B 2 subdirectory where all files are for
The root partition. Is back 2. And I have BU 0 as of today. 24 0 6 2020 24 0 6.
20 today and this is a backup clone today that I made. So you can exact backup.
There would be some changes since then. It was made at 2 o'clock. Once we start working on the update.
Then obviously this version. Will be a lot more different. In the clone, but. Worst case tonight, if we go to this guy, this guy up.
We throw it away and start over again.
Best case were successful. And we can take the results of the work tonight.
And this is the page on the wiki.
Upgrade back to clone 0.
And Steve, if you would jump in here and log in, then. My idea is to have you start making notes here.
Okay.
I'll talk about, I'll talk about this link here in a minute. But you know how to edit the wiki, right?
I don't think I've ever edited a wiki.
Okay, what you do is go to go to the link. Can you see it here? Did you, you made it.
Yeah, let me get logged in.
Cause I can't work on the zoom screen. Let's see.
Hmm. Because it won't be here.
Yeah. Let's see.
Oh, over my chat window go.
You're all, I'll email it to you real quick.
Okay, I was gonna say how do I get to
You don't. You go to the wiki.
Oh, okay.
And I use a browser for that. Okay.
No? Oh yeah, right. I'm sorry.
Okay.
Okay, what was that.
I emailed to you.
Oh, okay. Drag my email kicking and screaming.
Okay, here we go.
Use me.
Where everyone? Yeah.
Hang on, I got too many windows over and I'm gonna blow this machine. It done.
Yeah, see, go ahead and, you know, clean up your environment there and let me continue talking about the wiki.
This page is. On wiki. sloop.org. There's a link on the 1st page.
Spock upgrade 10 to 11.
I'm not, I'm not sure who put this together, but I know Mike Knight.
Sure, most of the information in here. And we talked about this a couple months ago. The idea is to use this to record both what we should do and what we do do and the results of that work.
To start off with, we did start off with a comment here. Mail man 2 to 3 it's gonna be a major upgrade because it's a complete architecture change I have some experience with the version of mailman 3 from Max King as the GitHub project.
It's containerized. That is one option. There are other options. Hello, that we will look at, but I do know that containerized version.
Does have. A possible solution to the biggest problem we've seen so far. And that is migrating our list history into.
The new version.
There's a lot of a lot of information in here about the current Bach.
Where it lives. Open ports.
Okay.
Oh, I say we go back a little bit here. So where it lives, where are you seeing where it lives?
Or how it lives, I guess. Yeah, it's a whole same as Bach. It's running on a hardware platform with Zen hypervisor.
2 CPUs, 4 giga memory. And there's 3 partitions associated with it. That's not specifying.
The virtual partition is just stating how that partition set up. Okay.
External accessible ports.
For primary services. Primarily a web server. And an email server also includes listserv.
SSHD, of course. DNS is a little bit of a misnomer. In fact, let me change it while we're here.
This is the. Unpublish.
Okay, by unpublished. One of the interesting tricks about the way we have this set up, thanks to Craig Bluecheck about 15 years ago.
Bach is our DNS master's master. And with that master. We have, I think, 5 different slave zones.
In fact, if you look at.
Dot org
Notice we have 4 published name servers. And those name servers are all at buddy ns.
Dot com. Is everybody know how I got here?
Any questions on that?
Okay.
Put me in else. I think I'm lost, Lee.
Okay, where'd you get lost?
Well, I got the wiki up.
Okay.
Oh, okay. Forget the documentation for now. I'm just explaining the configuration. We don't need to document that because we haven't done anything yet.
Okay.
So at this point, all I did was I did who is on sleuth. As part of that who is information.
It shows the published name servers.
These are the 4 name servers for sloop.org. Notice that none of them are@sloop.org.
There's 2 reasons for that. Number one, it means that any DNS query does not go to any sloop server.
Which means that we don't have to endure whatever that traffic is or whatever attacks are propagated against.
Sloop that org. Number 2, it gives us a good level of reliability. There's 4.
Servers out there all across the country. That we don't have to manage, we don't have to pay for anything.
Yeah. Except for just a small monthly fee it works out to about I think it's I think it's 3 bucks a month for the service.
In fact, I use it for some other projects.
So that's what I mean when I say unpublished master. Bar sloop domains.
Using name D.
Any questions on it? So it's kind of a way of. Avoiding a denial of service attack.
The type that somebody would Try and take us down just by bombarding us with DNS requests.
Right because those Names are, or, or manage. By a company that has that as their focus of business.
And they are orders of magnitude more secure than anything we would want to put up. You know, put forth the effort to expose.
They've got the capacity to to look at packet requests and come in and say no no no you you've done this 20 times the last 2 seconds.
But buddy NS is secondary DNS service for thousands of domains around the world. And that's what they specialize in.
Hello.
Minor nitpick. Bach as the master name server. He is listed in the SOA record for the domain.
So it's not a listed. NS record, but it is out there and somebody that knows how to find it can easily find it.
Okay, how would I see that?
I just ran dig. Space, Space sloop.org.
I did that.
Right in us look up. No. You know.
No, why did? Big enough work for you.
Big SOA is in start of authority. Sl. UG.
Dot org. That should have worked.
You don't use. Yeah, because like TXT.
Yes, it is the start of authority type that we want to look for.
Okay. Let me see if I can share and show.
Hmm.
Yeah, it works on my machine.
So you're seeing slug, TTL and Sway.
Wait, minus type as well no.
Type, I'm used to needing the dash type on NS look up. Let me see if I can share.
Yeah. Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Yeah, except zoom is being weird for me.
And second, let me make you co-host. I think we're.
Doom is always weird.
Right.
Let me know when to try.
I've made your co-host but I'm not, oh wait a minute.
There you go. Right now.
Yes. No, I'm getting. Okay, triangle screens, like permission or something on my end.
Is Zoom only one share window at a time? I don't just see, can be multiple by not Zoom.
Hang on. Let me try my other system. Mute and try to avoid audio feedback.
Yeah, on the other one, join without audio.
That's what you have to do.
I'm joined from the other computer. Let me. Shuffle Windows and try to share.
Okay.
Okay, can you see that screen?
Yeah.
Yep.
Okay.
So Bach is not. Completely hidden, just mostly hidden.
Oh, okay, why that can you increase the font size on that a bit please? You have to recapile again.
Sorry.
But it was proportional.
Thank you.
Yeah.
That any better? You're welcome.
So we can take this as a follow up item, but just. If FYI, BACK is not completely hidden.
Okay.
Yeah, but the only DNS. It will respond to is the key is an authorized.
Where you transfer, hang on a second.
Okay.
I mean, you're using what I typically refer to as hidden primary. Which is a relatively common thing.
Alright.
You manage the DNS zones on Bach And then the, buddy DNS does a secondary.
And they do zone transfers and they, are the line backers to the internet at large.
I do the same thing, just different provider.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm just I'm just not clear as to what information SLA is giving out.
So start of authority is that's if you recall DNS zone files, you have the SOA record at the top.
Box loop org period is what's called the M name or master name server. And then the next one is the responsible person domains at.
Sleep. Go to work. You replace the 1st period with an app sign. Is the email address.
That should be able to answer questions about that domain. And then the. Serial number. And you're using date based cereals which I do as well.
That's just kind of an incremental thing. Refresh interval. Retry so the.
1, 2, 6 and 5 zeros is how many seconds. Between refreshes.
So you may want to make sure you're doing, notifies with buddy DNS.
The 60 is retry interval for secondary server if it is unable to communicate. With the primary, which is.
What's configured on the system? Then the 12 0 9 600. Is how many seconds before secondary servers will consider the zone expired and stop Okay.
If they're not able to update. Or check the cereal of the primary. And then the 100 on the end is, the negative TTL.
Also known as negative caching. And that's how many seconds. Compliant DNS servers are allowed to cache.
That a domain name is not existent like bad dot.slug.org. Would be non-existent, a server can cache that non-existence.
For 100 seconds.
Okay.
Cool.
Sorry for the diversion.
Take it away, Lee.
No problem. That's why it's a working session.
Any questions on that?
Oh, do you want me to share it again?
Oh, it's.
Okay, cool. Let's keep going.
There's no services running on that though, right? There's nothing, no ports open on
Email, web.
SSH web, 80 n 4 4 3. Email. Shake your email, TLS.
I, I just tried web, you know, flu.org and nothing comes up since invalid host or something.
That's because box that's, a host name, not a domain name.
If you go to sloop.org. It will resolve to a virtual host for sloop.org. If you go to scllug.org.
Right.
And we'll resolve to host for STL log.org, etc.
That makes sense.
Well, and you're invalid host, it's actually a web page. Bit is returning text.
Saying bad host name. So you're actually connecting speaking HTTP. And getting a textual page back that has a please go away message.
Wait a minute, where is?
Are you seeing my screen?
Yes, I'm seeing somebody that has 5 tabs open and just went to box slug or.
Okay, okay, cause I lost my green highlight around it showing what was what I'm sharing.
Yeah.
Zoom, I don't understand why zoom can't be simpler, but Anyway, so here's what the question was when you go to Bach.
Dot sloop.org. You get a blank web page with an invalid host. And that is because bach.
Sloop.org is not a website. Hosted on sloop.org.
So if you go to.org which has it a specific IP and 8 or 10 different. A virtual hosts.
Apache, a virtual host on it. And you don't hit one of those. You get a page that says.
So that's what Apache would refer to as the default virtual host.
And we don't need to get into that configuration because it's a. Pretty messy. Believe me, I've looked at it many times.
Trying to fix things.
Let's talk about it later, normally on the default. I do a redirect back to the primary, but that's another time.
Yeah, but there is no primary.
Hey, I'm calling the primary as. Sloop.org like
Right, but they're not sub domains. They are all separate domains. You know, slug.
Right.
Dot org. You know, it's not like a company where you got 18 divisions and if you Have a bad link, it takes you back to the main site.
Let me rephrase. I view. All incoming connections if they're 2. The default, name based virtual host.
You can redirect it where you want to do something more graceful. You know, you could redirect it to .
Dot
Yeah.
Okay.
That's layer 7 application configuration and. Yes, Apache can be complicated.
Very true.
Alright, so those are the 4 external service. Let me reload that. Exchange, the other, and reload.
And. Box specific. You know, we have a pretty good job of compiling a bunch of information.
Here, let me point out one thing. That I found. Last month. I've got a firewall machine here in the shop.
I rebuilt it last fall. And for some reason, which was totally obtuse to me at the time.
The IP table set that was running it. Would not work. And I couldn't figure out why for the life of me.
So I just, I just ran with the default. It turns out there was a routing issue that was broken.
And, you know, the IP tables that we put together, Chuck help me out about 7 or 8 years ago with it.
Work fine, but I couldn't get a work in it.
In Firewall D. And this, when I saw this comment here, it made me realize that.
The file even though firewall D would work 80% of the task would perform 80% of the task.
It could not deal with. A. DMZ with a separate It's a. EMG was a public subnet, internal was a private subnet.
And the default route was a second. Public IP. It's probably an issue that could be solved, but.
Accidentally I got this
Accidentally but I had this bright idea one night after I've been . Yeah I wonder if our Wald is running.
When I load the IP tables.
And so I physically shut off our Wald. Loaded those IP tables and it worked.
There are some issues that we need to resolve, conclusion being there are some issues we need to look at here in depth.
Because Firewall D while it. Has a number of advantages. It also has some things that can drive you crazy.
And I have a feeling. That trying to add. You have
To
Add some filters on the firewall. Didn't work because of a problem just like that.
So before we go start playing with Firewall D going forward. We need to decide if we're going to use a separate program.
Or we're gonna use Firewall D and complicating that is a fact that failed to ban IS there.
Okay.
Cause of
Who? Okay.
Steve.
Was that audio from?
Okay.
Sorry, I had to mute some. I think it was Dave.
Okay.
Alright, so that's the caution on. Where's all the noise coming?
Nice.
We're on BC maybe.
And I have to mute him.
Thank you. I'm I'm gonna root everybody. I need everybody right now.
If you have a question. Let's see, would somebody watch chat? Let me know if there's something in chat.
Okay, thanks.
I'll watch. I'll toss out there that. Hi, I would probably recommend whatever.
Long term support firewall will be in Debian 11. And particularly in Debian 12, you know, they might be migrating from UFW to Firewall D.
Right.
So perhaps we could make it work on 11 when we get the upgrade, but it may become another mailman type problem.
We may be better off. Recreating the firewall rule set. And whatever Debian's go forward solution is.
I suspect as firewall D, but we can.
It's the net filter, right? Is that?
Oh, net filter is the internal filtering technology. Firewall D in UFW and failed to ban our user space processes for managing firewall.
There's net filter and BPF. Yes. Yep.
So they are like front ends for ethernet or IP tables.
But, but the thing that really surprised me is the fact that You can have an IP tables rule set.
And you can also have. Set of Firewall D rules And in some cases they do not work together.
Yeah, because it's Almost certainly IP tables in kernel. And Firewall D and UFW and pick your front end.
Are all trying to manipulate. What's in kernel and they don't necessarily have knowledge of each other and good luck in everything to work.
And. Okay.
So it's better to you're saying it's better to just do a clean. Break from IP tables firewall.
And actually.
Oh, that's my initial assumption right now. So I as we get into it, we will start.
Okay.
And Steve, I think a lot of that noise is yours, I'm gonna go ahead and mute you here.
Alright.
Lee, I've been muted for the last couple of minutes. I muted myself.
Yeah, but you're still called, you're still caused a lot of noise.
So, Kind of voice.
Well, you're not muted right now. I'm gonna mute you.
Okay.
Okay, I would. I'm gonna skip on down here so we can. Keep going.
There's if anyone wants to take a look, there is a ton of note here.
I put together. And it's very informative. There's a lot of stuff on Bach.
2 that is not standard. On Debian 11, some of it's been installed, a lot of it has probably been brought forth from Debian what 6 I think was the 1st version we had on here and the stuff just doesn't die.
Or doesn't get purged. You know, like we've got some old, PHP 7 where 7.4 is now.
I mean, Anyway, post fix admin. Now that could be a problem.
Grant, have you ever seen anything similar post fix?
Yes, I'm trying to remember. Virtual Men has some options for managing. Post fix.
But I believe I've gotten post fix admin. Running on 11.
Oh, it'll probably run on a 11, but the issue is it's not. Yeah, there's no package for it anymore.
Anyway, yeah, that's 1 issue we need to address.
I kind of. Flap my lips and think so what?
Did you check backports?
No, no, the question was it's. Does not appear to be mainstream and Debian 11 anymore.
And that is the only tool I have seen that allows you to. Manage multiple domains on a single close fixed instance.
And in fact, we actually, developed a hook. Where we can tell post fix admin where to deliver the domain or an individual email accounts email.
No, sorry, an individual domains email. You know, so if you have users on one domain, they go to mail one, another domain goes the mail 2, another domain goes to mail 3.
And that configuration is kept in the database along with the Postfix admin. The rest of Postwixt admin date.
And that kind of information.
You know, a. Yeah. Anyway, weather light.
So here's the plan that we started with.
There's all kinds of references down here. Step 2, create a clone we have step 3, which is what we're going to do tonight.
And at that point. We can either repeat those, we will probably repeat those steps on BAC. Just upgrade back to 11 so it's got another 2 years And then we can handle the.
Gabby and 11 to Debian 12. In the near future, hopefully. And work on some of the problems that we do have with mailman and anything else critical here that does fall out.
So, Steve. Can you go ahead and join, jump back in? I want to get you started here on
Okay We're going to.
You got a bad connection on your mic or something. There's all kinds of static. That's what the 9th was, is Mike Line.
One by 5. If that.
Okay.
It's all noise, Steve.
No luck. Now you're dead silent, Steve.
It really sounds like you got a bad word on the microphone. Sounds like. Now let's make it sad.
Okay.
Hi, your static. No.
Exactly.
Okay.
No, it's, Yeah.
Okay.
Hey Steve. And you, if you have questions or something, you put them in the chat and I will relay them that audio.
Okay.
So to start off with. There is a stand a all encompassing upgrade procedure. Upgrades from Buster chapter 4.
This is. Oh, by the way, just clarifying that. Upgrades from Buster. Means upgrades from Debian.
And the nickname for Bust for W. 10 is Buster Group. Those people who don't like numbers for releases and what names.
I'm the other side. Behind the names confusing and I like numbers but to each Of course, Debian has been around longer than the vast majority of distros.
So. That was probably from the days when you couldn't count. About 5.
Alright, for anybody interested in doing this for work. Are when you have an environment that is risky in terms of breaking something and taking down services and costing people money.
I would certainly encourage you to go through this step by step. If nothing else, it gives you a good documentation of each step that you've done and the results and you have a good procedure to follow.
In my case, I'm gonna ask it, ask a question. I think Mike is the one who dug that up and, made it available.
Do we know where Mike got that?
It's on the, it's the standard Debian stuff. It's from the Devian releases, Which is 11, I believe.
So that is a that's provided by Debbie and it's out on their site.
Right. And I'll put the link and it's up with the Lincoln chat here although it's on the wiki.
And if anybody wants it, you can just go to the Wiki and follow along.
So where I was go.
Put a link in the chat to make it easy for people to. Jump 2.
Sure, that sounds good. If I can find the chat window. I think Grant was saying he could do that.
I can try and find it and put my
Oh, hang on second if I can find if I can.
Okay, damn it.
If I share a monitor Now I don't have a control bar. Yeah.
Ron there should be something like to do release update. Command. We're just playing it safe and making sure we have all our ducks in a row.
Before we pull that trigger.
Okay.
Okay, yeah, it probably if everything goes well, would be done by now as well. This is.
Eunuchs.
You know, and it's through a link and chat to that page. If you want to follow off.
Thank you, Lee.
Hmm.
Alright, so where I was going is I tend to just do a quick search.
Hello.
I'll give me a break.
Zoom board? What your health going on?
That looks like Firefox is messing with you.
Oh, it's soon. There's nothing wrong with Firefox.
Doom's got the freaking freak she locked up.
Hey.
Do you want me to presentation for a moment and you take it back?
No, I got it. I got it.
So what I tend to do is I, there's some other, some other good websites out there like Linux I and some others.
That have simpler.
Procedures. Obviously there's an issue backing up your data, but you don't need to spend.
3 days doing it if you clone the machine. And the whole point of doing it the way that we have it mapped out.
Is so that we can. Perfect the procedure or on. And once it's perfected, we know what we're doing when when we can take Bach down for a few hours and apply it there.
Go the 1st thing we want to do.
Is jump into
I like to use T. Mux. Separate presentation.
And at that point, by the way, My personal Motorsop, Again, since I'm the only admin around.
You know, I'm not really. I don't, you know, we don't have 18 different people to keep track of.
That are so that are pseudo on the route. So you wanted me to run a pseudo command so it gets logged and individually.
I don't have those kind of issues. I just jump straight in the route. And where I'm on a machine and what I do is I.
Keep a team up session open. On any machine I admin. So if If I want to go back there.
All I have to do is And I have an alias called Tango X-ray. For Zoom.
And I can jump back in from a Android tablet or. Whatever with a limited keyboard. Okay.
Go ahead.
Like, quick interjection. Steve, if you would please on the notes, let's talk about a backup.
For when we take Bach 2 down. We can discuss that more on mailing list, but please add it to the notes.
Good point. Thank you.
Can, can you hear me at all now?
Wonderfully clear 5 by 5 sir
Excellent. Excellent.
Really? I dumped zoom and restarted it.
Okay.
Well, I wish there was a better solution out there, but. We have seen one and gy can be so finicky on different machines.
I don't know.
Well, this is like the most problem I've had with Sue. I haven't I don't zoom doesn't give me a hard time usually
Well, it could be traffic, Steve. I mean, you're out there in the boonies on, on a cell connection, so.
Yeah, it could be.
Okay, you got enough sucking up your bandwidth.
I don't know I could go look at my bandwidth but every time I look at my bandwidth There's not much going on.
You sound great right now, so I wouldn't. Look that gift towards on the mouth.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Alright.
I can take some notes if we want. I got the wiki pulled up and stuff, but, Lee, is there any way you could do that to my session where I could join into it?
So I can copy the commands you're running into the notes.
You'd have to pseudo to me, about 2 and then you can do tank, 2 tango x-ray.
Our T. Mu's minus fies attached.
So I'm on B 2 as me. I don't think I can sudo though.
Oh, I can. I can, sudo. Okay, so you said sudo. What was it?
Space S SU space minus space LVL.
Okay, and then.
Or just do a tango x-ray.
Okay. Okay. Okay, and now I should be able to copy. Yeah, okay, so I can copy the things that you're typing in and put them in the wiki so I'll do that
Cool.
I like it smarter not harder.
Yeah. Okay, so next step. App Mark shall hold if.
You show any packages are held back.
Okay.
And there are none.
So the next thing we want to do is a standard update and upgrade.
Lee?
Yeah.
I'm still screwing around with this cataract surgery.
And I can't really see.
Is that, is that fine?
Effectively. Okay. Oh Who is it? Pardon?
Is the font not big enough for you?
It's, no, the font is fine. It's just that. My eyes kind of fade in and out.
They're when when they get this done.
There's about a month where they don't want to do anything because the eyes change It's like I used to have computer glasses at work.
Now they don't work. And.
Yeah. Well, see, Steve, I think we got you covered for tonight. Don't worry about it.
Well, that's what I was gonna say. I think maybe I'd love to help with this project, but.
I can't, this just isn't effective.
Yeah, no worries.
I think Shawn's, tapping in and I think we're good.
Yeah.
Who's actually taking notes right now?
Sean.
Shawn.
Oh, okay. It's not like I have any idea what's going on.
I've taken one note, so we might wanna, I wanna go a little faster.
Okay.
Well, you need 2 for it to be plural.
Yeah.
I't have to do a full upgrade. That's also run auto remove.
And what did auto remove you? Nothing? Nothing. Why we do it?
Because that's a backup. We wanna make sure there isn't any craft out there that we should remove.
So the next thing we need to do is.
Okay.
Look@oursources.list.
Yeah.
And let's see, we're changing from buster to bullseye.
You can just do a said, replace.
You do you?
Okay.
You can use percent for the entire file.
Column percent S.
Okay. Okay.
Hi, show.
Yep.
And we have.
Okay.
So you did sources list itself. What about any? That list files in the sources list dot D directory.
Oh
Okay. Turn up.
Don't have me. Mainly we don't need.
English only. I don't think we need it. So, so now we do another update with our new sources list.
And this is going to be a little. More involved. Cause at this point we are pulling. The packages.
That We had refreshed all the repos. And we are now looking at the bullseye repose.
Yeah.
Go back a moment, please. I'm looking at the 4 0 4 for Debian security bullseye and is that the same one that's complaining the error down below.
Can't be done securely.
That's not
That's interesting.
Try changing HTTP to HTTPS.
For security.
Which one was that?
Next set up.
Nope, one more.
Here. One more so. Oh, here it is.
Hi, hang on, go back. You got a source you want to do the Deb itself up 1 1.
There you go.
Now try your app. Update again.
Good nice, great.
Well, looks better. Not found. But.
Not.
Does anybody have a Debian 11 system handy to check that or a sources list? Builder for Debian, 11.
I can search that.
I've got a bunch of elevens, but they're all raspian.
It's the simplest one to get to.
That Linux eyes site that you've been referencing has a sources list file I think.
This. Well, that's from. Well.
Thank you.
What that is with
You need to drop and come back.
Work for me.
No. Yeah, it's it's a no it's it's a firefox thing it won't
Firefox is not Zoom does not like me wanting to talk to Firefox.
This by chance like hardware rendering Firefox trying to use that and Zoom can't. Capture that.
No idea.
Okay, so I think so I'm comparing what's in our sources that list with what's on the Linux size.
Dot com link and the difference appears to be the ending. So, and ours, we have bullseye slash something updates.
And in the Linux size one, they have bullseye dash security. That's the main difference I see.
Now is that the second part because we have Debian, you say bullseye security or Debian security?
Yeah, so it's Debian dash security and then a space and then it's bullseye dash security and there's no more slash updates.
Do you know slash updates?
No slash updates, yeah. And then space main. So just like that. So that's what's on the Linux eyes.
Site. So hopefully that all.
And it also matches the bull's eye update below. Hey, that looks better.
Bingo.
Sean, scribe that you are pleased.
Wow. I am.
700 packages. That's going to be wild.
And this is why we do what I consider dry runs to figure out things like this.
Do we see how many bytes it's gonna? Required. Usually lists that, right?
No, 2 GB so far.
Oh no, 2 gig per second.
2 megabit megabyte second.
Megabit.
That's 2,000 megabits or 2,000 kB. Yeah, so.
700 packages.
What was our account originally? Can you remember? Devin, okay, so 175.
Is this intermission where we, get up and go inspecting plumbing?
Yeah, let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby.
We have
Hey.
Sure.
Come on. Yeah. How about you?
Got some upstairs if somebody wants it.
Yeah, we take an hour to get there.
Well, there's that.
I wouldn't get it have a cold beer. It wouldn't be cold by the time it got there.
Yeah.
I got a couple of golden lights left.
Actually, that's not my favorite beer. I don't care for light beer.
Like a much darker German style, you know something's got a little body to it Okay.
Was our discussion earlier in chat about Amber and Bach and this is why we don't have systems called golden and light.
Okay.
Yeah.
Interesting. We didn't get a question like this or is that coming up next?
You're doing your app upgrade, so it's pulling things in right now. I'm expecting we're gonna get that.
Oh, yes. Do you, if you do both, you have, upgrade and add full upgrade.
Yeah, full, is next down here.
Oh, you do have to do both.
Okay.
Yeah, you gotta bring the existing one. Completely up to date, then you can do the full upgrade.
Yes.
At least that's the way it works on a blunt who and it looks like it's very similar.
Sense upon to is based on Debian.
Right. That's 2 frigging complicated. All I do is a zipper update on and you know come back and let it run in the background.
Okay.
Did you see that, for the leap? This is like the last release of Leap before they move it to like an immutable.
Distro. Did you see that?
No, 15 6 is It, the, the, the.
No, I don't think that's I think for I'm talking just about leap, but what I saw was there where this is the last release of leap.
Before they move it to an immutable. I think it's not going to be separate anymore is what I read
What's in immutable, yeah. One of it.
There's a lot there's a lot of ways to do it, but they're probably gonna use something like RPMS tree is my guess.
And basically it's, it makes it so the root of your. Basically, OS is not modifiable.
And it just does like, similar to Docker containers. It like, creates a basically image layers that build build up and make your OS.
It's like, you know, like that's what like Fedora, Silver Blue and some other distros do a similar thing.
I think Susie's kind of following the trend now.
And then the Chromebooks, not the Chromebook stew, something similar. They Download the new image and then go to the.
Yeah, hey, just so you know, I think it's stopped at waiting for us for something there, Lee, if you can go back to the terminal.
They're going to the lobby. Yeah.
Okay. I remember seeing that in a drive in when my parents took us to the
Yep.
See a movie back in the fifties.
You realize how long ago that was?
Oh, it just popped up the. The changes file.
Yeah, automatically through unused kernels on.
What's the name of this file or is it located?
Well, this is apt and we got Apache 2 up here.
Do a Control G.
There you go.
That's maybe a temporary file.
Yeah, slash temp app list changes.
Yeah.
Oh, no, I'm not. Really?
You wanna copy that file, to your home directory, Lee?
Hey, I can do that.
Or VARTEM should be non-volatile.
Isn't it in?
Yes, or slack. Something.
Okay.
Everybody catch a path here.
Then you're prompt.
Well.
So this is where I'm going to put. Check these temp files from tonight.
Okay.
Control G again, I wanna see how many lines it was.
4 40.
No, that's the size. Or what's showing on screen. No, you're right.
I'm misinterpreting.
Yeah, I'm looking at 3 78 to 4 0 6 out of 4 40.
I think.
Yeah.
So, that's.
It's a calendar. We may have to deal with that.
Looks like this is going to take a while.
Yeah, probably.
I mean, we're doing a full OS update, so. It's not. Upgrade between major versions.
This is not just monthly updates. This is. What every 3 to 5 years?
Yep.
So you're, you're actually running this at your house, Lee, so you've got your.
You're downloading over your network, right?
Right.
Okay.
Oh, hey, I think that's something we can do while we wait. You guys wanna play with co-pilot while we wait?
Cause it has this terminal feature. To where it can tell you how to do commands. You're gonna play with it while we sincere on 6%?
I thought we were friends.
Sure. Yeah.
Alright, here we go. So I just installed this. I've never used it before. I've just I just installed this this morning.
But our like literally started this meeting. I remember back here when we were trying to figure out the SOA record of slew.
Dot org. So what I did was I typed GH co pilot suggest. And if I do that at all.
It'll like suggest a command is what it's for. And so I picked a generic shell command.
And what it said was dig, og. Which then I copied I selected the option to copy that to my clipboard.
And then I pasted it. And it worked.
So let's ask it something about Debian upgrades.
Yeah.
How to, oh okay, let's do explain. What does apps? Well, what is the full upgrade? Was it?
Oh, it's apt. Well, upgrade. A man do.
The app's full upgrade command is used to upgrade packages on a Debian based system.
It performs a full upgrade by installing the newest versions of all installed packages, removes any obsolete packages, handles dependencies.
And may install or remove additional packages to complete the upgrade process.
Yeah, I think it's just more a little bit more aggressive than the, upgrade.
Yeah.
Okay.
My understanding. It isn't full upgrade what you use to go between major versions. While update is confined to be within major versions.
Yeah, that's about the way I remember it.
It's, even point releases though, you have to use.
That surprises me.
Yeah, there's some weird stuff in Debian that isn't.
You know the same.
Yeah, I usually I usually can't get a better kernel until I do
Yeah.
I'll stick with Jen too.
Alright, let me jump back here because we got some questions to answer I want to show people.
Alright.
Answers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Not necessarily in that order. Okay, during the upgrade process, you will receive possibly some configuration questions.
You know, for example, services to restart Pam Library upgrade. Cron ATD.
Yeah. Anything else we need to add on here? Normally I wouldn't think so, but.
Grant, you ever seen something like this? Chuck.
Yeah. In concept of this actual thing. So I'm not at all surprised.
It's changing out the PAM. Backend library so anything that was using it should be reloaded.
Or restarted to use the new version of the back end library. Makes sense to me. I'm kind of surprised.
There aren't more things, but I'm also not too terribly worried because the full system reboot is in our future.
Such as the same goal.
Got it. Alright, anybody else? Any questions?
So we're about 20%. Okay, Shawn, you want to grab it back and we can
Take a look at co-pilot more till we hit another stopping point.
Yes, we need some things to, to tell it to try.
Did anybody do anything interesting on the command line today? I mean, I didn't, but.
Let's see. Like suggest the command.
Ask it how to sniff traffic on the network.
Sniff DNS traffic.
I'm gonna choose to next shell command.
Suggestion not, okay, so monitor. DNS traffic. Downing. Into this into.
So, suggestion not readily available. Hmm.
Let's see, so monitor. Okay, so.
Here I'll try, create TCP. Of incoming network traffic.
Okay.
Explain!
Yeah, let's explain. So it says pseudo TCP. So when I use the word TCP.
Then all of a sudden that understand and understood a bit better. And it's just, I guess it's just assuming what my network devices here.
Okay. When I said explain, it explained what pseudo is. So that seems great.
TCP Dump is a command line packet analyzer tool. I, to 0 specifies the network interface to capture.
W, capture PCAP specifies the output file name for the captured packet. Okay.
Alright, so It's I feel like that's a bit of a hallucination and don't exit yet.
Ask it how to do it on a different interface and show it on screen.
Okay. Show the wait.
So you wanted to change the interface?
No, create TSP dump of incoming network traffic on E 3.
Basically modify your previous prompt.
Yeah, so I think I would say, okay, so. Change the command to monitor. These 3.
Yeah. And.
Display on screen.
And, on.
Dash in. Oh, I don't know what the dash in does.
New, ask it what does dash in do. It's a
Let's have it. Dash and disables the conversion of network addresses to host names. Hmm.
So it'll display the IP addresses. Well, I guess, I mean, I guess that will display it.
So that doesn't put it to a file.
Right, but why did it add dash in for this command when it did not provide dash in in the previous command?
Right. Let's see, we could revise it some more. So let's see.
What
DNS traffic.
What's oh yeah, Phil.
Nope, not readily available. It won't do that. It just refuses to care about that.
3
Let me try again. Show only. For on 4 53.
Okay, so it can do that.
Show only DNS traffic.
Okay, so I did that too I assume that'll work. Any, is, is that, I, any, so now changed it to any interface too, so modified that.
And then it did.
Yeah, and If this was a student of mine, I'd say why did you use any?
Right.
Okay.
Sorry, Sean, I don't mean to sound like I'm belittling what you're doing.
What your present
No, I'm not doing anything. I'm just asking an AI what to do.
Little in the AI.
Yeah, yeah. I'm not doing nothing. Okay. Let's try again.
Let's do. Okay. Let's do what we just did.
Let's see how okay, so change. Sources that list file. was it it was poster to, what was it again?
Oh.
Or just save Debbie and 10.
I think, I think it's still buster wrong.
That's right.
Okay, let's see, let's do this and I'll do the one. Okay, so it's using said.
What's the dash? I, so that seems good. I, I think that would work.
Add well. How would you add with backup?
Yeah, hold on. Let me try the 10 to 11 thing first.st so 10 to 11 it couldn't do that.
You didn't tell it was Debian.
Okay, so now you want to do the same thing. What? What?
You said just change sources you did. Okay.
Oh yeah, that's not, yeah, you're good. Good point. Sources from, Debian 10 to It'll be an 11.
Okay.
They figured it out. Yeah, I'm busted the bull's eye. That seems accurate.
Or if you wanna be a real dastardly deed. Tell it Ubuntu that is the next version.
I've seen people do those conversions.
Take it back up of the sources. That list file before modifying it.
And, so just as the copy command.
I'm gonna exit.
Change your prompt to Instead, make a backup.
So I'm gonna do. I wanna say make a backup. Of the Source list.
File then Change. The Sources. That we intend.
Change these. Let's try it. Let's see what it does.
And yeah, it is.
You can add a suffix after the dash I. And said makes a backup in process.
Okay, hold on. And the backup being made using said.
Nope, it doesn't know that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. So, okay, so.
I'm just gonna try more generically modify A file was said. And make a, set, but make a backup.
Modify a file with said while making a backup. There, sure, yes.
Okay, cool
It seems like you'd have to know the commander ready to tell it one command to give a Okay.
Okay.
That's true, yeah, but, you know, a lot of times I, you know, if you forget like the little syntax things, I think this could be a little bit helpful, but yeah, you definitely have to know what you're doing or else how do you know any of this is right you know
Oh! Hi, yeah, but I feel like you're gonna have to sanity check to make sure there aren't hallucinations and for you to be able to do that, you're going to remember what you want.
Whereas if you just use man on said and search for backup. It's right there.
Yeah. And I
It didn't have the G either, so it's not global. But. We didn't solve to make a global change.
Yeah, true. I'm surprised it did. Okay, so did the end and here.
I wanna, I wanted to do a pipe. What's something that they would have the pipe? Oh, also let's check on our.
Okay, yeah, we're 52% so still got time to kill what's something that, okay, so let's say, what about getting the IP address?
Get it? The IP address. Of a Debian system.
Cause I feel like you'd have to, you, I, okay, here we go. IP,
What the heck? Oh, it's cutting out. Is cutting out the local host one.
I wanna see if I can run this. I'm not on Debian, I'm on a bunch too, but Let's see.
He's on Debian.
Yeah.
To me it's presuming you want to remove local host And. Wow!
But.
1st of all, your grip and cut could be collapsed into the aux. So there's 2 strokes for Vim Golf.
Oh, I, yeah, no.
The 1st rep could also be included in the
Well, you could write. Yeah, I mean, you could write a whole operating system and awk or something. When I was gonna do that, this is exactly how I'm gonna do.
Okay.
You say nobody's gonna do that, but I do things like that weekly.
Yeah, yeah, and you have to or else you're gonna forget the oxen tax and you're gonna be doing this like I would grab cut.
Well, I'll ask it. Use only Ark and I prep.
Okay, okay.
Using only OCK.
And what's wrong with IPad or show? Just the base command.
With one AK.
Okay.
Hold on. Okay, so it worked. Okay.
But it included loop back this time and it did not before.
Yeah, but you'll never want that right you're never gonna if you're asking a system for the IP address you never want the loop back I mean I can't think of a reason why you would want that.
I have wanted it multiple times.
Well, can't you just hard code it? Is. Okay.
No, I've been on systems. You can really mess with Linux.
What the heck is this now?
If you, shut down. Happy, at print 2. That's gonna be
Run your IP address show. Just by itself.
And it's searching for ideas.
That's a different than IPA. Okay, so I just type IPA and it's the same thing as that.
Yeah. Searching for getting one and so it's taking yeah there's your (125) 525-5254.
So there you've got an IP address on loop back. So it's. Excluding one address on the loop back, but reporting other addresses on the loop back.
Let's try to have it explain this.
What are you in, Sean, that you have that 10 dot address on the loop back?
Hold on a second. This.
I don't know if it's gonna work.
Hi. Wow.
Okay, I'm just
Okay.
Okay, so we gotta show is used to, so it says IP Add to Show is used to display network interfaces and their addresses.
The 1st filters out the output and prints lines containing oh, so that's a regular expression.
Slash. Print with nothing after it filter further filters the output and prints the fields Before the slash character.
Okay, see I learned something there. I didn't realize that That's what that did or I might have knew it at 1 point, but I haven't used talk in a long time.
That is a heck. It's literally by default does not print field separators, so it's specifying the field separator.
As the slash. And then it's printing things without the field separators.
And then in R 2 selects the second line. Okay, we are at 85% boys. We are cooking
Okay.
Alright, oops. Okay. Alright.
If that was student of mine, I would. I have some conversations.
Do you teach? Where do you see chat?
Oh. Oh.
Here, right now. I mailing list news groups. IRC, you name it, but.
That's fine.
No, I'm not. Great coding style. Lot of assumptions are made there.
Oh.
Not the least of which that command. Showed an address on the loop back. And did not show the address on your ether interface.
Easy. Alright.
What are we at now? We're at 90. So maybe it's probably gonna be done pretty quick.
So why don't we switch back over? Cause it's at 90% right now, so.
Lee, wake up!
Yeah.
I'm watching, we got a question there.
Where was the question? I didn't see it.
It just popped.
Okay. It just pop. Here. I got the bigger text for people.
Yeah.
Modified by you updated version so basically we want to Keep our currently installed version. Which is
Will you show the differences?
Well, we got one for app armor here.
No, I meant the differences in the config file. Scroll down a little bit more. Yeah. That's when I was.
And my dogs coming. So you've added right ability. And it wants to remove right to Etsy bind.
And it wants to remove read write from VAR name D. And remove read write from. Run bind.
I guess it's anticipating zones. Will be in a different directory. I would keep your version because your config file is going to be based on that.
That's such a weird, UX there. It's like, you can type in or oh, you know, whatever you feel like.
Yeah, it's like.
Yeah, it's yes or no and it's either install or old, I'm guessing.
What?
Typing in and all, but nothing advances. So I guess left take default.
And I still won't get any.
I'll try.
Nope, nothing.
It's a back on progress that it looks like, right? No.
Jump, this detached for a second, Sean. Control B is in Bravo and D for D.
And that, hold on, that didn't work.
Sorry, that's not working.
Yeah.
Oh, I got it. You only do it. Okay.
I got it in. Yeah, What's changed?
Why hit Control C on my end, so I might have been messing things.
Yeah.
What are the differences in the sis control file? Oh boy.
Yeah. Comments, we don't care, comments are okay. We got here.
It's changing comments.
Nice.
Oh, we got a bit mass comment added here.
And some tweaks there.
Okay, not all protected links.
But these are all common all these lines are commoned out though right so
Not the next one now. Oh, yeah.
There's There's 2 comments added here.
It's taken out this whole section in here.
Colonel Ciswreck. When it's adding a Colonel CISCRC, 4 38.
Good.
Why is there a minus sign in front of that pound sign all the time?
Oh.
That's an aspect or artifact of the difference engine that's used it wants to remove the lines start with a minus and it wants to add lines start.
So this was, this file is edited though, or is it the default from, and it's It's just doing changes to make it default to Damon 11.
Well, the next part.
Or was this file edited in some way that there is a change in there that is a a user or admin change in there?
Well, then that I.
Yeah.
It looks yeah, it just looks like it's all just all comments right
No, the net IPv 6 comp all disable IPv 6. That is probably something somebody explicitly added to disable.
Okay, so that's triggered it. That triggered it.
This something we added 7 years ago when we built it originally because We don't use IPv 6 year to shop.
Right.
So it's taking that and wants to take that out.
Are you at the bottom? Yeah, you are.
Can you exit out and actually, is there a way to edit or? Do we want to?
Diff it again. Let Shawn copy that to the notes that we want to re-ad. That sis control.
Later on. And then just take the new file.
So that makes sense.
John, you want to grab that?
Yeah.
I already got it.
Okay, cool.
I'll see.
But I mean, it's really that important to take these new comments though. I don't really see the importance of that.
Well.
Unless people are gonna read these.
I tend to agree with, Steve of it's probably the differences between versions and I think it'd be better to go with the new one instead of having some from Debian 10.
Well, the only thing that is actually a change here to remove that he wants to remove. Is Disable IPv 6.
Right. Yes, but I'm thinking about if we come back to this file barring this process, come back to it 9 months from now and look at it and it's still basically Debian 10.
Comments. It could mislead something.
Yeah, the comments are outdated. Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh crap, I don't know if I can do that.
Try, editing. Yeah, it's CSS control.
Okay, so there's probably another 5. What is? Is it?
Doesn't it automatically make a backup of the original?
Yeah, yeah, that's no problem.
Okay, yeah, this is the only line that affects.
Yeah.
So what I can do is.
Copy sis control.
6th morning. Hey Tony, this goes to your point. I'll just grab a copy of it.
And we've got in the notes anyway. Right.
So here is the copy. Here's the new. And here is the old.
That new one is from 2021. I don't know how new it is anymore. Yeah.
Good point.
Than the default from. 2018.
Yeah. Good BC or AD. Yeah.
Yes.
Did you do this last time? When, when, when you went to, did you upgrade in place from?
9 or 8 or something?
All upgrades have been in place since we built it in 2,007 or 7 or 8 years ago.
Alright, keep on so we're going to
Yes, install the package maintainer version is my vote.
We can always, we can always grab that line if we want.
Correct. And I think I asked, Sean to add that as an AI action item.
That's what I was thinking this whole time like you guys want these comments I mean look the AI is gonna be administering the system by the time we need to look this again and it'll figure it out.
Don't worry.
Spam assassin in it that pre.
Oh
Is there an AI religion that John has joined?
Let's see the differences.
I, and it gave me this.
I am going to keep. Our old version.
Okay. I'm cool with that.
Shameless, and local.
Same would be for 3 42 because A, I don't know anything about spam assassin and B.
Mike is joined guy and has configured this and I trust his knowledge more than I trust the uprake knowledge.
Yeah, I've been running spam assassin for more than 2 decades.
15 years.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if. Every file that we kept there was and there now is a backup there of the one that the upgrade wanted to install also.
Yeah. There's probably that the package dash new or something.
Oh, let's see what differences it wants to make to a very sacred file to me.
I don't, the port line you care about.
Why is he taking? Well, these are all commented anyway. Oh, he's just looking for looking to the stable.
Well, you get into what is RSA. And there's a whole bunch of different things that have RSA associated with them that are not necessarily what you want.
Your port 22 0 6 you want to keep
Why is it? Why would he be taking out the option to specify protocol tool?
Well, that's a comment. It's no longer in the default file.
No, what I'm saying is why What he Okay.
Okay. Okay.
Probably because their versions no longer support. SSA version one. So specifying it is redundant.
Okay, so it's actually not changing any. Active line except for 22 0 6.
It is adding and include line towards the top.
Here we go. Yeah, Start a
Yeah, I'm cool with that. I think the biggest thing is you could use the new one.
And you're just gonna need to change your port.
And don't recite the host. The service or else we're gonna get kicked out.
Okay.
Yeah, you're gonna be locked out, right? I was just gonna say that.
Yeah, isn't there?
Well, I got a solution.
Actually, you can start a shell. And you can take your.
Hang on, hang on, hang on. I wanna install it.
Hello.
I'm so assuming that you have.
Console access to the VM if you need it.
Well, it's interesting. Yes I do.
Scroll to the top and see if the include line is there.
It's not. So it hasn't physically replaced the file yet.
Oh. There it just did.
Well, heck, we just went through this.
Wait is this, was the other one SSH comp and this one's SSHD comp?
No, the other was
Go the differences.
I hang on a second, yeah.
You.
Yeah.
And. I think it was SSH cash. Before.
I think it's the same file.
Same file. Is it was SSHC here? Morning, Ed.
Unless it was shown in SSH.
No, it was SSHD because it was Why would you specify a port? In SSH.
Account.
Because that's the that's the default port that uses when you SSH out.
Have you modified? So it's the client config. Have you modified the client config to automatically default, and to port?
2 2 0 6 or whatever. Okay.
That's SSH underscore config. Because that is I just put the line back here back in here.
Although
We really probably don't need it here because you're not, you're going 99.9 9% of the time you're going to sites that are not under our purview.
Right, and you can easily accomplish that with.
With a config file. Yeah.
Well, you can do it system wide and that is a perfect example. I've got a whole bunch of per host at the SSH.
Yeah.
The include directory is like hosting.com. I have host name and I specify the port.
Good night.
Yeah. So, but this is SSHD.
You want that's the port you.
Oh, hold on. So for the recording or for the notes here, we're saying that we're gonna take the SSH comp.
And we're going to it's gonna wipe out that port 2 2 0 6 change and we're okay with that right that's what I'm putting in the notes.
Right.
I would say it as the SSH client config file. Because we're now looking at the SSH server configuration file.
So now if we take the SSH server configuration.
Who want to install.
I wonder what they do at three-way merge. Yes.
Sure.
Thanks.
Hmm. And, an awful. Okay, so where's the conflict?
It's separate file. Hit the up, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Merge.
Colin.
I would swear. So it's listing a file that's not there or is. Where you doing SSH config, not SSHD config?
Mali, our SSHD.
Just Right, what was your LS? You did an LS for as a page.
Yes.
Yeah, there it is.
Right.
You probably want to take out that line that is equals and take out the commented out. Address family line.
Okay.
Do me a favor. Having trouble seeing that do a colon set space background equals dark.
No actual space. The
Equals Dirk.
Hang on, hang on.
Okay.
Sure.
Thank you. Okay.
So what is this gonna well, okay, that's the only change.
Yeah, but you should have a line that was multiple equals and then.
Yeah, he took that out already. I think he took out all the, delimiters.
Yeah.
Yeah, I thought it wanted, I thought it had multiple changes in like. Multiple sets. Yeah, so.
Oh, I had them backwards. Current versus new. Control R to redo.
You can do it multiple times. So it was only one block old and new. I miss took it as another block.
Yeah, that's it. We're good.
Probably.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. So now we have to copy that.
Yeah.
Right.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. Okay.
You are going too, I could not copy that to the notes. There we go. Thank you. One sec.
And Gary's got some comments.
Okay, what was the line that we, we didn't change anything, right? Just remove. What do we do that config file?
We didn't do anything, right? We just removed the 5th stuff.
We. Reinstated. The Alternate port. And address family line.
And then cleaned up.
Okay, got it. Thank you.
So I this point, we're going to keep the local version, right?
Yeah. I think.
Sweet.
No idea.
Different teams.
Yeah.
Almost there, 99%.
And if this was a Windows file copy now is when it would roll over the 32 bit counter.
And how long it was gonna take.
Good.
There you go.
Is that the last one?
I've seen that WSS warning OS Prober will be executed to detect other butable partitions.
It's like That's like warning this thing will do the thing that it specifically does. Yeah.
I think part of that I've actually been on the other side where OS Prober was not run.
And I think OS Prober. Is not always entirely safe to do in certain configurations.
Yep.
Well, that is one heck of a kernel difference. 4.1 9 to 5.1.
Yeah.
Rec will not be handled automatically. Consider rebooting. We've changed a whole bunch of libraries.
You know, the C library is different, but you should you should consider rebooting.
Isn't 6 dot 6 out 2 for the kernel? So it's a lot newer, but it's still very old.
Yeah, but these are, stables. 6 is not stable yet. That's still bleeding edge
All right, I'm gonna go ahead and skip all the reboot all the restart since we're gonna reboot anyway.
One is, one is 11 end of life.
Another 2 years or?
Oh
Let me look it up. Lee, you focus on that. I'll find an answer.
Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and cancel this. Because I'm assuming you'll go ahead and reboot.
It's fine. I can look up.
Ch, anything else while I reboot?
No, Debian, 11, I will reach EOL sometime around July, 2024.
Hmm.
Cool.
What? When was 10 on that list?
2 doing different
Hang on, I don't know. I think that was an automatically generated answer. Yeah, once.
As August 20 August 2026
Yeah.
For 11.
Okay, so.
Yeah. Yeah, 2 years.
Yeah.
Wow. Google AI, you are wrong. EVEN project currently estimates that Debian 11 bull's eye will reach EOL end of life sometime around July, 2024, approximately 2 months from now.
That's cute.
Yeah
Who who who wants to believe that AI shit? That's where that's kind of
Anybody else using, I think it's UDM equals 14 query parameter.
For Google to disable mostly AI.
No. It's not worth my time to play with it.
Well, it makes Google. Free AI Google.
Alright, let's reboot. I wanna see the fireworks. I wanna see the.
You get on console so you can see the reboot there.
Oh yeah, we need a we need a non SSH console don't we?
Hopefully not.
Wow. Hmm.
There's a man with confidence.
This is what comes when the pilot of the airplane isn't wearing a parachute. This is why I like flying in the jump plane, you know, for all work in parachutes.
We know what we're doing here.
So Lee, we're now looking at, virtual machine viewer. For the Zen.
Yep.
Yes, sir. Birt Manager. And then I just double clicked on And it's not running.
So let's see if we got our SSH back.
Yep.
And we are on bull's eye.
And see if the mailman is running.
And what do we got here?
We have Firewall D, we have. Spam assassin, MAV. Post-grey and TPA started, which is the NAGIOS plugin that I install.
Dubcott fresh clam name D.
So if you're running Devcat, are you exposing I'm app? Or pop 3 or their secure variance to the internet.
Yes.
I would update our list where it says email to probably list those as well.
Sean, are you in the?
Wiki.
Hi, I just saved it. Go ahead.
Okay. Where was that section?
Yeah, post fix and dovcott.
Bound section, now you gotta find the section again.
Where is that?
Yeah, that's she edit. Here we go.
What was the other one you suggested?
Devcott is both pop 3 and I'm app, I assume.
It's also widely used for sassil.
I would consider it an SASL consumer, not an SASL provider.
Also, it provides it for supposed fix.
Right.
You okay with that?
I'm good.
I don't mean to get off track on the technicalities or anything. Crazy.
No, I'm very curious on it.
Was there another change we need to make here?
No, I think that's probably good.
Okay.
Alright, so We should be able to take those notes and.
Upgrade. Once we get a few more eyes on the air to. Make sure everything's working right.
I would recommend
Yeah, what's gonna be the testing parameters for
Testing everything on this. You're gonna have to enable the. Email server or just the list server or I mean, Apache, you can just test what's like.
You should be able to hit. Yeah.
What was it?
Talk too, wouldn't it?
God damn it.
We can zoom what the fuck is your problem with?
So is is Python V 2 installed or is this the version where they started to ditch it?
I think it has to be if mailland version 2 is running.
Go ahead.
2 dot 7 dot 16 is installed.
I am going to jump in with. That's not.
Shawn, can you get a copy of the Sources list file as we have it now.
I'm sure.
Because my normal SOP. Would be after sleeping. Hmm. Make a new clone of So we're back to where we were.
2 to 3 h ago and follow the notes. As we have them. On another test to make sure.
We know the answers for everything like. We want new or old, etc.
We can't run back as a clone.
No, no, I'm saying do what you did. On the last 48 HA second time.
So create a new clone of Bach. Make it B 3 or overwrite B 2 as it is.
And then test the notes that. Have been made on that new clone.
Okay. That makes sense to you, Sean, so you can document it.
I'm sorry, I'm Happy and something in what we're saying.
Finish your
Yep.
Doing another dry run for. And what they what the added information that we have from this.
Gotcha. Yeah, I know the notes are in there so Didn't have any problem doing that.
I mean, I don't know. No, no, so hopefully they're good enough.
Hello.
It pisses me off that Firefox doesn't like Zoom.
Okay, back to. dot.org works
Yes.
Do you get the generic default virtual host, Cool.
Okay.
No.
No patches running, it's resolving. If we wanted to test it, anybody could test it.
By. Anybody know how to do it? That's what you're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah. Except I'm on my work computer that I don't have admin access to. Like turn around and do it on my personal.
So basically what you can do
In your host file.
Okay, create your own local DNS for the 2 domains you want to test with.
And when you save that and go back down here to here to here. You know, host.
How many get sloop.org You shaped that it came over here.
I can share and show. If you want me to.
Yeah, go ahead because the Dub is gonna mess it up from where I'm doing.
Yeah, give me a moment.
Do you want to tail? The.
Good point.
I can find it.
Fair enough. Zoom. Oh, I think my.
Okay.
Does anybody have the meeting ID handy or I can get the? URL again.
Yeah.
Okay, good.
Oh, what was your question? Once the Zoom Meeting ID. I did delete. I deleted them all.
I think I have it.
Hang on a second. Should be able to. Okay. Hey, I'm second.
I got the invite here.
Yeah, I got it.
Got it. I got it. So why doesn't the invite tab? No, no, no, no, no, not as crap.
You got it. Never mind.
Let me share.
Share screen. Yes.
Other, I guess, other V-host, right?
Yeah. Okay. Are you seeing my desktop, which has a small terminal window and a web browser?
Yes.
Cool. So.
Yeah, I can't go bigger font. I just added. Bock Two's IP address and made.
Yep.
Those 3 names resolve there. And I cycled my web browser. So. Are you tailing the access log on, Okay.
Got him.
Cool. Alright.
Yeah.
Firefox, 1 15, kind of old. And you are (711) 282-1245, right?
Sounds right.
Okay, any questions before I stop sharing?
You have to rename the, you have to put that,
Local DNS and because the Apache is Configured for the, you know, the sloop.
Dot org or ww.sloo.org, right?
Right.
Correct. Apache is looking for the highlighted names. And DNS is resolving those to.
Primary B. So I added an Etsy hosts entry to say those names resolve back to Bach Two's IP address.
Right.
Which is why you can't just do it by IP address because you, yeah, it has to send the names over.
Correct.
Right. But there's 1 caveat there.
For the Apache, yeah.
Second step now. Is to put that on a sticky note and put it on your monitor. Sure, 3 days now if you wanna go to the live sloop.org, you don't end up in the wrong place.
Yeah.
So.
Put something in the issue, Carl.
No, the,
Etsy hosts. File.
Yeah.
That's he, you know.
I'm a little bit surprised SSL or. Yeah, TLS was still working there.
I thought we'd get some like cros and stuff, but
No, because I was using the real name. Dot. Slug.
Dot org which is what the common name and the certificate contains amongst other things.
And Bach 2 has the exact same. Perfect.
Right. I just over road DNS.
Yep.
Overwrote the IP address. Which, which the, certificate is not which is not what the SSL search does not check.
It assumes DNS is right.
Correct.
This is Stan. My question is. And my understanding that the separate IP number for Bach 2.
Yes, that is correct.
Okay, then.
Back 2 is 2 11 block is 2 10.
Say again, Stan.
That makes sense now that you've told me that there's a different IP number. I, I missed that point somehow.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think. Lee mentioned it when he actually took the clone and we started this process.
2 or 3 months ago. So that was player knowledge and
So.
Well, I don't remember what I had for breakfast.
Breakfast? What's that?
Oh, at lunch. Gary can't remember what he had for dinner.
Alright, any other questions?
Do you have dinner?
Yeah. Did I?
We didn't get a delivery.
We're stretched on.
It's so if I have time I can start testing this clone, right?
You certainly can. Just make your host file. So that you resolve whatever domain you want to test. Locally and you don't hit DNS so that whenever you put sloop.
Dot org in your browser, you get the 2 11 from your local host file.
Right, I understand it now.
Okay. Anybody else?
Well, since it's almost a witching hour of 9 o'clock, why don't we wrap it for tonight and we'll continue our discussions on sisan men.
Get other people involved in testing. And then, you know, maybe hope not too distant future, we can.
I'll clone block again. We can do the updates and. Possibly shut back down temporarily do the updates and if it works we'll swap them.
We'll talk about it on sis admin. I'm sure. But, I am happy to do.
MX relay that way email inbound to sloop.org, etc. Will you and something we control instead of depending on other systems.
And is while Bach is down and when it comes back up, send any email further on to Box.
The one wants to go live date, cause we have 10 days left.
Oh no, this is in the support. I mean, Realistically, we probably got the end of July before we have to worry about.
But no, back to what you were saying, Grant. How would that work with, all of the security today?
Because block two's IP would have to be in the TXT record.
And, and, you know, it would, it would have, and then you would have to replicate that.
Replicate your.
No, what I'm talking about is you would add my server. As a lower priority slash higher number.
Mail exchanger or MX record. And I would configure my server to allow relay for sloop.
Dot org. So while Bach is offline. DNS would say, oh, there's this backup server over here at TED. You can send it there.
Tina knows how to get it to Bach.
Yeah, but how is the email going to your MX record going to validate?
Validation is on outbound.
I'm talking.
Right. So, so if, if Google is sending emails, sloop.org, how is it going to be accepted by your server?
Because it won't be on the SPF record, it won't match the decim.
That's SPF and DQM are for inbound. Like it for, I'm sorry, for you to.
We're sending from slug out to the world. Hey, MX records are used for routing inbound email.
So you would add my server as a backup MX. I would tell my server it's allowed to relay.
So Google would say, I want to deliver to slib.org. Hey, box down. Here's this other server.
I can get to it. It's willing to accept it. Thank you. Have a nice day.
We don't need to worry about SPF or DQM or anything else like that.
Because I would not be sending email. Okay.
Think of it as I'm your next door neighbor picking up your email. While you're on vacation and when you come back on line I hand all your email to you.
Not the concept of the, you know, the issue is Google has turned into such a bitch this year.
And mobile.
The authentication is for when you send. As sloop.org.
Sure, Google is sending the sloop.org. It's expect to authenticate with sloop.org.
How would it deliver mail? To an MX record that does not carry the same credentials.
SPF, D, and D. Mark. Or for receiving email. From slug.
But Google won't send dislube.org unless that recipient is listed in the SPF record.
Nope, you've got it backwards.
No, that's required because we had to do it.
So you could send to Google.
Weren't we would not be sending email.
Right.
You can send to Google without Google being in your SPF record. But you can't receive email from Google unless Google is in your SPF record.
Long, nope.
Hang on, hang on.
That's not an SPF record. Yep, that's Google site verification. That's an SPF record.
And the fact you have MX and my servers and MX. I would be SPF validated.
So I'm saying you've got a Bach slug org. As Mx of weight of 10.
You would add my server as MX of. 25 or 99 or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah.
So people trying to send to sloop.org. If they can't reach Bach while it's down.
There we go. Oh, there's this other server. I can send. To it.
Okay. No, no, it's not the concept I'm question. It's authentication, but we can take that offline.
Good luck I say, I'm gunshot with all this crap we've been going through for the last year with.
Google.
SPF is for when you send email. Claiming to be from sloop. Org. As is D.
Kim, as is D.
So when you send something from Google by way of my server. It would actually show up as from something at Google.
So you're seeing the only the only authentication anybody needs to send to your domain is for that server to be listed as an MX.
No, that is for receiving email from sloop.org. That is for outbound email.
No, for inbound email. If Google is sending You're saying that the only and authentication Google requires to send that email.
Is the MX listing.
Okay.
Correct. SPF doesn't matter.
Yep.
But when sloop.org gets that email. From a server that is not Google.
Does that not invalidate? The transaction.
You There's a piece I have not said. Bach would be validating the envelope address.
My server includes send a rewriting scheme for the envelope. So the email that it forwards to you would actually have an envelope.
As user address equals google.com at TNC servo 6 dot tnat consulting.
Dot net but from headers and everything else would still be valid.
And it will come in and validate. And it will pass filtering.
And we can, if you want. You can enable, add an MX record and I can make a change on my system and we can test it completely independent.
Before anything is done with Bach.
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, well we we can work that out on. But, you know, for now.
I think we can wrap for tonight. And Sean's got good notes, which we looking at shortly.
And.
Unless anybody else has any other questions or discussion. Open mic.
Yeah, I have I have one thing if we have a little extra time.
Thank you.
Alright, let me share my screen again, please. It's switching topics a little bit, but let's see.
So. So I've been more busy. Than I've been ever.
Lately, but I've still been working on the websites, the new website project that I started I feel like forever ago now.
I've still been plugging away at it here and there when I have can get a few minutes.
And what I've done recently over the past couple weeks is I've created this other repo.
That basically is a script. That will do what I demonstrated. While back when I did the rag demo.
So basically we can run this script and we can feed it in the meeting data. And it'll generate some tweets.
Some YouTube titles and some images. And I have documentation here for like how to Run the script so you're gonna have to like have no JS installed you're gonna have to have an API key for open AI.
And then it costs. Roughly 15 cents every time we run it and open AI costs. But I think what this will do is this will kind of generate data that will feed into the website is what I'm hoping.
And so let me show. And I don't know to go super in depth here, but I wanna show a little bit.
So like here's an example of a slew meeting. Let me see if I can turn on.
Happening. So here's an example of a slug meeting and this thing is very And my way there it goes.
Okay. So all that's required to type in here is the title, the presenter, and the abstract.
That's all that's required under this presentations. But you can provide like references or like preferably the meetup URL.
So this is the information for a slew meeting. From January 13, th 2021. And basically what I can do is I can run this through the script.
By running, oh, let me make this bigger just in case. NPM, start.
Test data. Sorry, it's getting laid over here. Okay, so I'm gonna run this through the script to have it generate the things for this January 2021 meeting.
Hopefully I have the setup, right? I'm doing this on a different computer that I've been doing it on all week, so hopefully it works.
But here, I have some output. So this, this command also takes a dash v flag for verbose where it'll print out a lot of stuff.
But by default it'll just print out basically every time it's calling the Open AI API. Just so you can see your, you know, what's going to cost you money.
And so the 1st thing it does is it generates tags. So if you remember when I showed you the website, we can tag our different presentations and then it kind of groups them under tags.
So 1st is gonna generate tags for the for however many presentations there are in the meeting. Then it's going to generate tweets for the meeting.
Then it's gonna generate several YouTube titles. Then it's gonna generate some design ideas. Or the image and then it's gonna take those design ideas and it's gonna send them to open AI.
To generate, the actual images from the designs. And then lastly, it's going to resize the images.
Down to 1280 by 7 20 because that's the Best size for a YouTube thumbnail.
And and also the shrinks it from like 5 MB down to a few 100 kB, which is good too.
And then at the very end it outputs a JSON file. To the disc directory as well as and see how now it has all this extra stuff right this There's a lot more stuff than what was there before.
So let's take a look at what was generated. So, there's gonna be some images.
So this presentation is about, Lee made a raspberry pi, MP 3 player, so like a hand held music box.
So the images are kind of related to that. So here's like the Raspberry Pi logo with some music.
Logos around. The other presentation was about a command line utility called where is which is extremely hard to generate a graphic for but you can see here it did its best to try to come up with something.
And here is, I think it's trying to do like a mix of the 2. So it's trying to.
Yeah, kinda do a mix of the 2. And so these are some images that we could use for the YouTube thumbnail or for the new website.
And then also here is the, the much fuller JSON file. And so the 1st thing it generated was tags.
And so for this, where is, topic, I think customization is pretty good and scripting.
Those are pretty good. I think tags for this one. And then it has some tweets.
I think I showed this off. Before where it'll you know, what we can do is after we generate this, you know, maybe some human will read through these and pick the best one and copy and paste it into Twitter and post it something like that.
And then it did the same thing for the other presentation. So here it picked, raspberry pi and music player as the tags.
I think those are decent as well. And once again, more tweets and then down here is the a bunch of YouTube titles.
That we can choose from and once again you know the human A human can come in here and kind of like instead of coming up with a YouTube title, you can just kind of copy one of these and use it.
And then here's the image that declarations for. The images so that away when they're embedded on the site they'll have like an alt text that kind of describes the image and all that.
Anyway, so this is what I've been working on and now the next step is Kind of refactoring the site to basically take this generated JSON file and display this all, you know, nicely and neatly and and professionally and then it'll do the RSS feed and all that stuff as well.
And so that's kind of the next step is now that I have this. Then I can start going in here and like you can see I've done these 2 already.
I've done the 1st 2 meetings of 2021. And here where it has the new thumbnail Here, let me edit this one.
So you can see that it has the one of the images for the thumbnail. It has the title from chat GPT and it has, and then in here I just copied and pasted the title, the presenter and the abstract into this part because I figure that might help people that are searching.
For. The video. And so basically I've kind of.
Proven this out on the 1st couple is what I've done. And then my plan like I said this week is to make it work with the website and then just keep doing All the ones on 2021 and keep moving forward from there so.
Yeah, okay, so that's pretty much it. I don't wanna take up too much time.
I just wanted to show the progress that I haven't given up on this. It's still moving along.
So.
That is awesome stuff. I second the motion.
Empressing. Technical question. The stuff to put on the new website.
Are you planning on having details for each thing and separate JSON files or? Are you doing client side?
Content generation. From the JSON files, are you gonna do something where you're back to the venerable fried versus baked.
Website where it's Not gonna require client side processing.
Yeah, so. So what Astro does, well, okay, so I use Astro for the website and it, it uses, static.
It's basically a static site generator, right? So it's gonna take those JSON files.
It's gonna feed that data into some, react style components and then it's gonna create static HTML files from that.
Right.
Yeah.
And then those will be put on a web server and served out that way. There will be some client side JavaScript because I do want to embed the YouTube video in the page and I'm also probably going to need some client side JavaScript for things like navigation dropdown menus and stuff if we get there but for the most part I'm gonna statically generate as much as I possibly can.
I'm cool with that. I just didn't wanna see. An X HTML request for the JSON file for each.
Video and having to pull in 20 or 30 for a page and client side amalgamation but your static site generator.
Accounts for that.
It's been fun trying to figure out so the challenging part I mean I guess well I don't wanna show it but I could show it if anybody's interested but The challenging part was getting, you know, these AIs to to give me JSON back.
That was the challenging part because. You know, they just, they're so talkative, you know, all these AIs and getting them to reliably produce JSON, like, give me 3 tweets, right?
Well, how do I know if they gave me 3 tweets? Well, I need it to be like in a JSON array, right, with proper double quote strings and commas between between the strings and all that, right?
That's how I know it gave me 3 tweets back. And so it's kind of, the way that you do that, at least with Open AI, is you Tell the AI, hey, call this function, this tool, right?
Call my function and oh, by the way, this function takes in an argument of of a ray of strings, exactly 3 strings.
And so I'm able to specify the schema. That I want open AI to generate. And it will generate that schema and then call my function.
And really my function doesn't do much of anything. It's just I'm using the function part of it.
To make opening conform at JSON. It's really, it's kind of neat.
It's kinda, it's kind of a hacky workaround, but at the same time it's kind of powerful too.
Hello. And our question is, we get somebody else.
I have a question.
Fantastic, Sean. Good job. Really nice.
I'm gonna keep working it. I heard somebody had a question.
Yeah, my name is David. I actually come out of Orlando, but I heard about this presentation.
I didn't get to see it. I see output to various things such as tweets and, YouTube videos.
What I'd be interested in having an output being MD, or a markdown so you could feed it in the media wiki because I would thought about if we got more steady presentations, through Golug.
A long time ago, we, you documented. Not, we didn't. Captured the type of information that this group captures in the way of transcripts of the meetings or recording a lot of our members didn't want the meetings recorded if they participated.
But, Media wiki was where I wanted to because it already started for meeting presentations.
So multiple people could submit information. For future meetings, you know, their details. As opposed to a static website because we didn't have anybody volunteer to be a permanent Webmaster, I volunteer to maintain the back end of it and keep it running.
Yeah, so is how much did you generate all this or the code that? Generates it and what would it take to generate some sort of mark down that would go into a a wiki.
Yeah, certainly. And I, you know, I really went back and forth with this. Let me share my screen again.
So I went back and forth with this for a long time because one of the things that Astro supports is doing, MDX files.
And basically the MDX files are marked down where you can put headings and And they're actually MDX files, which means you can even put JavaScript or sorry, yeah, web components in there too, like react style, JSX components in the Markdown as well.
And that's super cool. But what I got to thinking was, okay, let's say that we create one markdown file.
For each meeting right and then let's say we're 5 years down the road and we have you know what do we have like 2 meetings a month so then we got You know, a lot, a lot of marked down files, right?
And let's say we want to add a new thing on every page, like some new. Element or some new you know thing on every single page.
Well, we'd have to go back and we'd have to modify hundreds. Markdown files, right?
And so that didn't quite sit as well with me. That along with the fact that the data from meeting to meeting is exactly the same like that YAML file is flexible enough where I think it's gonna be good for, for all of our meetings.
And so
What I decided was using the JSON would be better. Because We wouldn't have hundreds of MDX files that we might have to modify one by one at some point in the future if we wanted to add something to all the pages.
Okay.
But I did, I wrote a very extensive document here considered weighing the pros and cons of all those and I'll put that in the chat.
The way that I was gonna organize it, cause we maintained the media wiki manually was we wouldn't have a markdown file for every presentation.
We would, I simply met it. Be in reverse chronological order. The top of the Media Wiki page was the was the next coming meeting and Every month, everything just scroll down.
And then when it got to be about 14 years worth of data, then I was gonna split it even more into years.
The only time I come up with the new Wikipedia page. Right. Would be when a new year rolled around.
So the top page of the Media Wiki. Was just the current history of the year and then If somebody wanted to search back through.
Previous year's presentations than they would have to use. The wiki and then going to the year that they were interested in and looking.
But it gave us a snapshot of
Presented and if they had any materials then they're We could archive that on the manual. Or a more static website which is Winks from the Media Wiki.
For you know PowerPoint slides or whatever. Or slide shows.
But
Yeah, I mean that sounds, I mean that sounds like a good, that sounds like a good way to do it.
You know, I don't see any problem with that if that fits your guys' workflows and that sounds great, you know, but.
Okay. But.
But yeah, for sure. This, this is kind of the way that I envisioned and I, I have not updated this in several weeks.
I've been working on that back end stuff. But this is using Astro. And so here you see I have a list of several of the meetings.
And then if you click on it, you're taken to a page with like the YouTube embed. And then the details about that.
And then if you click on like the presenters name here. You're taken to the presenters page.
And all of the talks that they've ever given. And then also there's, tags.
So if I wanted to see all the talks about like Kubernetes, that I could click on that tag and I see all the talks about Kubernetes.
Or you see this has a search bar here too. So this is kind of cool because it's a static site, but we can still search it.
So if I searched for, I don't know, who is late at night, I'm not being very creative.
If I search for Kubernetes and you see that it's finding it. You know, in the different, posts and stuff.
So. So this is kind of what we're going, what we went with. And this is something where Ed helped.
It really helped port all of the presenters. From the old site to the new site so we have all those loaded in so if Ed's watching this after the fact or something thank you for that contribution.
But just yeah, and like I said, I wanna, this is what I'm gonna get back to.
And also pagination here Thought so. Got found a bug. But anyway, this is what I wanna get back to is, is back to the front end work now that I have the back end kind of, set up.
Laid out. And then what I was thinking is once I get this in a good spot for us. I think I could probably like it's obviously gonna be open source, right?
So if there's any other lugs. They want a similar thing, maybe with just like their logos and their theme or whatever.
It should be fairly simple to do that. I'm willing to help. Other logs too if this is something that they're interested in so
I'll be keeping and yes.
Minor comment, Sean. You would have something that would convert from the mark down to.
HTML served up on the server, correct?
Yeah, so Ashro can take either Markdown or JSON or GAML and convert those to static pages.
Yeah.
With the way I've done things with my website. I'm happy to go into it some other point.
Each individual page. Is basically it's content and 2 or 3 wrapper lines above and below.
And all the menus and everything else are separate pages. That the server puts in place. And it is static HTML.
So. I don't think you would. Likely have to edit a whole bunch of files.
If you did the mark down to HTML integration. In the server properly.
Right, and that's and I agree with you if you don't put anything in the middle, right?
Like if you only add the dynamics that are the common stuff at the top and bottom. Then I agree with you.
But what what the MDX does is it allows you to put that dynamic content intermixed. Between your content, right?
Right.
So. So like for example, if we, yeah. Well, I don't have, like I said, you know, but that's what the MDX allows you to do is put dynamic content in but you know in the middle of your body instead of just at the top and bottom.
And so that's the parts where if we wanted to add something new in the middle. We'd have to do that on every page because you can't just insert stuff in the middle without literally, you know, inserting it on every single file.
Okay.
So. That's where I was coming at it from.
John, this is Stan.
What you've just done would have made a good show and tell base session for next next move meeting.
Yeah
See you later, already showed it.
I've already got my hand up in the air for base next month.
Oh, there we go.
Is the upgrade of Bach going to involve upgrading a million list to mailman 3.
Yes, I suggest we end the meeting.
Just wanted to clarify.
If not
Can he fall asleep?
No, Grant's trying to ask a question, I think.
No, I'm trying to answer one. The question is, does the upgrade of Bach involve also upgrading mailman?
In the long term, yes, in the short term, no. It was decided to do a Debian 10 to 11 upgrade because Debian 11 supports mailman version 2.
And once we're on. Debian 11 while still running mailman 2. We could then split.
Just do the OS upgrade. 10 to 11 once we're stable on 11, then we can.
Focus on a mailman upgrade from mailman version to Python V 2 to mail man 3 Python v 3.
And then once we have upgraded to mailman v 3 and converted archives and everything else, then we can look at going from Debian 11 up to Debian 12.
In the coming months. And I'm guessing that's the next 9 to 18 months. Steve or a Lee?
Did I summarize that properly?
Yeah, sounds good.
Sounds fun to me.
Did that. Did that answer the question?
Gotcha, thanks, yep.
Very, very good. Let's see, I've got one, kind of traditional question for those of you who either have ever been to one of our meetings before or have come tonight for the 1st time in some months we're just curious what brought you here tonight did you see us in meetup or surfing around the web and found our homepage or looking at our calendar or somebody
invited you so anybody now want anybody on the spot but If you 1st time here or haven't been here in a while, why'd you come?
I'll answer that since I'm from out of town. I didn't come here initially for this.
I seen, a crosspost about meaning for your unique users group in the presentation of, History of computers.
And that's what, me to the group, and I see you had a new users Linux group in this, so I was gonna check out each one of them.
And see what they were like.
Excellent. Great. Thank you. And you saw that where?
Yeah.
I think it was just cross posted. In between the various mail list that was on, but it.
I have attended other groups in the past and it varied on what I what I thought of the group on.
Cause the user groups have sort of died, but they haven't really gone away. They found their little niche on which they do better than ever.
As well as anybody else. And and they're still existing. And I'm very happy about that.
That. My past, I seen stuff that. That worked well and as long as the core group that had the strong interest stuck around.
Cause I'm also an amateur radio guy and I've seen I've been a ham since about 91.
And I've gone through 3 phases, a ham radio. In the local area depending on who stepped forward volunteered and what group they ran and how long they lasted.
Excellent. Excellent. Anybody else want to volunteer to answer to why did you come?
I'll give the answer of why I started. However many months ago and that is I follow Michael W.
Lucas on previously Twitter and now the Fedverse. And he mentioned he was doing a presentation. Which I'm interested in watching his presentations.
Bonus, it was a Unix users group in the town I happened to live in. Even more bonus.
They have a Linux users group. So Here I am. You're gonna have to kick your hard to get me to go away.
Okay. Yeah. Certainly don't want you to go away. Alright, let's see as I don't wanna draw things out.
Has anybody got anything that they really, really, really would like to get an answer to yet tonight? And we're going to disallow the question of what's the winning lottery number.
Okay, hearing nobody.
Here it's allowing that question.
Yeah. Okay, in that case, I think Stan wants to close the recording. Anybody has any other final comments?
If not, I'll put a book end on the recording.
Okay, this is been the Thursday 20 June 2024 meeting of the St. Louis Linux users group.
The St. Louis Lug. Our speaker tonight has been Lee Lammert and a host of other volunteers who've been discussing how we can, upgrade our, our box server.
One of our main machines, we're trying to upgrade from Debian 10 to Debian 12.
And, we've had a number of good contributors tonight. Certainly, Grant has been a really, really big contributor to some of this.
And The write-up was done by, Night night. And we really appreciate that.
Thank you, Mike. And all of you have asked good questions and made great comments. So thank you all and good night.
Andrew