Look, in.
Okay, this is the St. Louis, Linux, User Group, St. Louis, Lug.
Today's date is Thursday, the 19.th
Check that date.
Thursday, the 18th of
Hold on!
Can't even get my book in straight.
It's day, 19, th Gary. Good grief.
Thursday, September the 19, th 24.
This is our monthly meeting, usually the 3rd Thursday of the month, or it's always a week.
8 days after the general meeting.
And tonight we have.
Shawn Weas. He's going to do our presentation.
On modern terminal showdown.
Kitty versus Western.
And let's see, we had to start a second recording.
No, sure. I heard Shan do it. Okay.
I guess I did.
Well, yes, so.
And with that I guess we'll turn it over to Sean.
Oh, well, 1st off.
Wait a minute. Good grief. Gary, don't you know the procedure.
No, I don't.
Kind of a good.
He just wants to get going.
Dad.
He's got a hot date, probably.
Okay. So back to the procedure.
If it's alive and breathing, it's dating.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, back to the procedure. Okay?
I guess.
Have we got a slide deck for that.
Somewhere.
So I'm where under the rainbow.
Toy.
CC. Well, anyway, I guess 1st off I know. Usually we talk about the calendar. I don't have anything to mention from the calendar. Anybody else have anything they saw on the calendar that looked interesting.
Doing nothing, move on.
Any other announcements things coming up that.
People know in town or online that they'd like to point out.
Hearing anything. There.
Let's see.
We stand either of you know, any changes in our calendar that are coming up.
Anything different coming up in the next coming weeks.
I have no idea I've been so busy for last 3 weeks. I don't know which end is up.
Think,
Excuse me next Tuesday.
Tuesday, the 24.th
That are
New Linux User Group meeting.
The nice thing about that meeting is it's.
It. It does not have a set of talk. Topic.
There isn't a speaker for the prepared presentation.
But rather it's whoever comes to the meeting who says that they are the.
The newest user of Linux. They get to ask 1st question, and then everybody else is challenged to come up. The good answer to that question.
So. And of course we we really appreciate, you know.
Some of the more experienced uses coming, because they're the ones who.
Actually have the best conversation and a lot of times the experience, more experience people.
You know, we'll always remark that, you know. Well, the conversation was really good, because, you know, it was a simple question that you know somebody do might ask.
But they learn something from the discussion the way it went. So.
Definitely both new users and old users should come to that meeting. That's next Tuesday night.
Starts at.
6, 30.
Right
Anything else that we should be pointing out.
While people are thinking of that. Another thing we do is do a front end. Q. And A is plenty of time. Usually after the presentation. Both talk about the.
Presenters, topic.
But and we, you know, as we branch off, we can get more general topics afterwards. But
Excuse me, we're like cough is coming from.
But we'll.
If somebody has a topic question that they want to.
Stage. Here, at the front of.
If they have to go early or something. This might be a.
Time to get in a couple of quick questions.
And not hearing anything.
Okay. Nobody has any questions.
Okay. Well, it may start to show.
Okay.
Use me. I apologize for this call. I say, get rid of this.
Alright! Sean, I will turn it over to you, and you can tell us all about the nice kitty, and
His friend. Where where's her?
So
Over to you. Thank you, sir.
Alright, thanks, Gary. Appreciate it.
My name is Sean Teahouse, and today I'm going to be doing a presentation on.
Terminal showdown. Kitty versus term.
Hello! Hello!
That's right, we're gonna pit.
We're gonna pet these 2.
Open source. Modern terminal applications head to head and see who comes out.
On top.
But before we do that, just one slide about me. So I I was a systems administrator for several years.
And I saw the transition happening to the cloud and devops and all that, and I said, No, thank you, I don't want to do that. And so.
I noped out into software development.
My current role is technical lead. I guess I'm aspiring solution architect. So if you know anybody.
In that space feel free to introduce me, if you can.
That's enough about me. Let's talk about you.
Who is this talk? For? I think this talk is for anybody who's been using the same terminal application for more than 5 years.
Anyone who's using the default terminal application that came with their operating system.
Or anybody who spends a lot of time in the command line.
If you're one of those people, this talk might benefit you.
So modern. Criminal. Okay, go ahead.
Same terminal application logged in for 5 years, that probably qualifies them.
Yes, right?
I'd say so.
Modern internal applications have a ton of features. I have.
The tip of the iceberg.
Listed here. And obviously I'm not gonna be able to cover.
All of both of these terminals in any great depth. But I will hopefully give a tour, an overview, something to kind of get you interested, and then you can go off on your own to dive in, and
And explore on your own.
So the 1st terminal that we're going to talk about today is called Kit.
KITT y Kitty.
It is open source under the Gpl. B. 3 license.
It's written in Python and C.
The 1st commit to the Github Repository was on October 2,016.
The developer whose name I am hopefully not getting too far wrong is Covid.
And something notable about him. He is also the primary developer of calibre, which is a ebook.
Manager, software.
Yeah, I've been using cool.
I always thought it was caliber, but I've been using it for years.
Yeah, he he has a donate button on there, and apparently he makes pretty good money off that software. From what I.
Heard recently on a podcast so.
Okay, and you should be seeing my key as well. On a little bar at the bottom. Here.
Is everybody seeing that.
You see this down here control.
Yes, yes, we do.
Okay, thank you. Yes, cause I'm gonna be doing a lot of keyboard shortcuts, because you know, terminal applications. And so it'll display what I'm typing in.
Down there at the bottom. So this is Kitty right here.
And I don't know if we noticed the startup time.
But I think it's pretty good. You know there's some amount of.
Startup time that I'm willing that, like once we get past like a certain amount of time, it gets annoying for me like when an application takes too long to start up.
And my desktop here is pretty old, the cpus from 2,016.
So it is a pretty old desktop, and I still think starts up pretty fast. So I'm trying to show off the startup time here.
Even on my old machine. And
Screen sharing on zoom. It starts up, you know, fast enough for me. I don't know.
I don't know if that would be the same for you, but we'll compare them as we go the startup times and stuff like that.
So the 1st thing I want to talk about with Kitty and this is, I'm just gonna type it in here. This is Kitty.
Is the tabs.
So in a browser and a web browser. If you hit control T.
That opens up a new tab. Right? Everybody knows that if you hit control W.
That closes a tab. If you do control tab that cycles you through.
Your tabs. If you do control, shift, tab.
That cycles you backwards through.
Your tabs right? And so I think a lot of people are familiar with these shortcuts, because.
You know, everybody uses a web browser, and I really like that. The terminal applications have.
Pretty much adopted. These, as well.
So here in Kitty. If I do control shift.
T. That opens a new tab.
And I can open up, of course, very many of them.
And I'm gonna take this.
Oh, that's the tabs down at the bottom. Okay.
Yeah, I'm gonna make this a little bit. I'm gonna put it more to the middle of the screen. So so this down here, these little white things are the different tabs. Let me move it up just a bit.
Okay. And I can click on them, too. So I can click on this tab. Let me go to like my downloads folder.
And then in this one I'll go to my documents, folder.
And then this one. I'll go to my code so we can kind of sell them apart.
Okay, so I have 3 tabs down here. Now.
And I can click on them.
I can do control, tab.
To cycle through them just like any web browser. I can do control, shift tab to cycle backwards.
So I can use keyboard shortcuts to.
Cycle back and forward between the different tabs.
And then, since this is Kitty, it has to be extra.
So I can go control shift period.
And what that did was that moved the downloads used to be the 1st tab over here, and now it's the second tab.
And if I do control, shift comma.
You see. Now it's back. So what that's doing is that's moving the tabs forward and backwards, so you can rearrange.
The order of the tabs. I guess. I could see like.
A very narrow case, where that might be.
Might be useful.
But yeah, I really like that. It uses pretty much the same keyboard shortcuts as the browser, and it has all the tabulation that I would really.
Ever want so pretty cool? There.
Now.
Another thing you can do. With these modern applications that I'm gonna show it off in. Kitty is splits or pains.
So here I'm making multiple splits by hitting control shift. Enter.
And for the most part I'm trying to demonstrate the default keyboard shortcuts that come out of the box.
But not always, but for the most part I am like that. One is a default.
And so now, you see, I have several panes here that I can do several things I could run. I don't know top or something.
Okay? And then, if you notice, they all kind of set up in this weird layout. Where we have the big one across the top, and then we have these 3 little ones.
With Kitty, at least out of the box by default.
You can't really control how the splits open.
At least I haven't got that far yet, so they just kind of open.
Like this. But what you can do is you can push, control shift. L, and what this is gonna do is this is gonna cycle through.
Different layouts for the split. So if I hit control shift L again.
Now it's in this kind of column or layout or something, and if I do control, shift L.
This is a stacked layout here.
So all those are still open, but we're kind of like zoomed in on the one that my cursor was in when I hit control shipped L.
And now we're back at this kind of layout.
And we've pretty much cycled through them all.
And this is like, this is what I do right? This is the most I do. As far as splits in a realistic scenario. I'll have my main split over here. I'll have one more to the side, and then, if I'm really.
Doing something strange. I'll have a 3rd one down here.
But for the most part, when I'm using splits in my terminal.
I'm just using 2. Okay? And so.
Yeah, if we want to. Move back and forth between the splits, using our keyboard.
We can do control shift.
Bracket. So that's opening, and that's closing bracket. So I'm moving.
Back and forth, between.
The
The splits, using a keyboard, shortcuts.
And because this is Kitty and Kitty is of course, extra. We can also move the pains.
So if I do like. So right now, my cursor is in this bottom one. Okay, this bottom that's in my home directory. If I do control shift B.
That's gonna move the split back.
Which I don't. I don't really understand what backwards and forwards is in a situation like this.
But you can see it moved it up.
And then if I hit control shift F.
It'll move it forward. And so you can kind of like, do this weird.
You can like, rotate your splits.
So like. If you want to split, to be in a certain spot in your window, you can like.
Rotate them around.
And then you can cycle through. You know the different layouts.
And I gotta tell you this is more.
This is much more terminal.
Split functionality that I need right? Like, I literally need 2 or 3 splits. That's it. I don't need all this, so it more than meets my needs for any type of crazy, split stuff.
But one thing I absolutely need.
As far as splits go.
Is let me close this. So now I'm down to one split.
One thing that I do all the time is like, let's go into the code directory for
For the new site.
And so what I'll what I'll usually do is I'll do some command that
Like will steal the terminal.
And then oh, hold on!
Okay, try that again. Okay, I'll do some command.
That will steal the terminal.
And then I'll be like crap. I wanted to do more things in the terminal. So what I do is I hit control Alt. Enter. This is a custom shortcut that I made.
Control alt enter, and what it does is it opens a split, but importantly, it opens the split in the same directory.
So like in this split. I'm running a build. And then in my other split that I just opened over here, I can run, you know, Lent, or what I could do something else, anything else, while that's happening.
Cause. I don't know if you're like you probably way smarter than me, so it's probably never happens to you, but I always like run some command that like.
They're like, I know, it's gonna take the shell. But like, for some reason, I don't think ahead.
To like, put it in the background, or something like that. And so I run some command. I'm like, Oh, yeah, I lost. I lost my cursor. Here, let me! And so then, being able to open up a new.
Split in the exact same directory is like super convenient for me.
Because it's in the same directory. I could just like.
Right go right back to whatever I was trying to do before.
Okay, so.
So that's.
Tabs and splits. Oh, and also, if I open up a bunch of splits here, and then I go to the next tab, you see that the splits are gone right? So the splits are per tab. So within a tab.
You have the splits.
So that's how that works. So let me go ahead and
Alright. Now I mentioned that that control enter keyboard shortcut, the one that opens the split in the same directory. That's a custom one that I made.
And so now would probably be a good time to talk about kitties, config, file.
So once you install, Kitty, it puts a config file.
And and this directory right here. So it's the Home Directory config.
Slash kitty.com.
And this.
File is huge. Okay, if we go to the bottom.
This file is like 2,500 lines long. Okay.
It is a huge config file. If you are.
An arch user or someone like that, someone who loves to.
You know, tweak every little setting and get everything set up just perfectly. I think that you're really gonna like Kitty, I mean.
The config files over 2,000 lines long. You can configure a lot of stuff.
you know, with Kitty so.
So if you're one of those people.
This is where you want to go. By the same token, if you're one of these people that are that way and don't like it about yourself like, if you want to. Just try. Every time you try to get work done, you end up fiddling with your settings.
Stay away. You might wanna stay away because you might get kind of sucked in to fiddling with Kitty instead of doing whatever work you're trying to do so.
Just something to be aware of.
Now, this line right here is the one that configures that keyboard shortcut.
To open in the same open a new split in the same directory.
So the syntax here is really straightforward. It's just the word map.
And then it's the key binding you want. So my my case, it's control altar.
And then the word Launch! And by default Kitty launches a new split. You can also tell it to like launch a new tab, or whatever.
And then. So I'm just telling it. Launch, which by default launches a new split, and then I'm giving it dash cwd the current Working Directory, and, I'm saying, set the current working directory to the.
The current directory. I guess.
And so really straightforward syntax.
You know this file is so well commented to be honest, like.
The comments around these config items is honestly.
Really good, really really good.
But if you're somebody who doesn't like.
Having a config file with a bunch of comments. If you think this is just a bunch of noise and you don't want it, you could delete all those comments out of your config, file.
Because Kitty has a ton of man pages.
So here I did. Man, kitab.
And it, you know. Bash.
Bash kind of pre filled all these, or
Shows me all the possible things that it could complete.
And there are a ton.
Man pages and documentation for Kitty.
And if we look at the man page for Kittycf.
We'll see this is the exact same thing.
That's commented out in that config file.
So if you want to delete all those
If you want to delete all those comments out of your config file, you can just use this, and you'll have the same.
Pretty much the same experience. So it's either way you want to go.
You'll notice a lot of these man pages are. Start with Kitten.
And kitten. I don't really understand that. I think they're just python programs that are kind of built in.
To Kitty. So when you install Kitty, you get a bunch of these kittens.
And these kittens are used to basically control the terminal.
And Kitty has this really advanced functionality where you can like remote control, the terminal.
So like. If you have.
This terminal installed on like a remote system. You can like literally control the terminal remotely. I don't really.
I haven't got nearly that advanced with it. But, man, that's crazy.
And one of these kittens is is the way, and by calling these kittens.
This sort of how you do that like.
I think this launch one right here. I could be wrong. I think this launch one right here is the one.
That I'm calling to open that new
That new split in the same directory.
So tons of great documentation.
Very well, commented Config. File.
The at least the configuration stuff that I've seen. The syntax seems pretty straightforward.
2 thumbs up there. Really? Good.
Okay, so that's Kitty.
I'm gonna go ahead and close Kitty down.
And go back to my slides, because the next terminal we need to talk about is.
Wister. So West term is open source it's got. It's under an mit license.
It's written in rust, which I'm sure Ed will be happy about.
The 1st commit on Github was in December, 17. So it's about one year.
Younger than Kitty.
But they're both pretty established projects.
The lead developers. Name is Wes Furlong.
Something notable notable about him. He was on the Php. Core team and the early odds.
And let's check out Wester.
So let's take a look at the startup time here for West Term. So I'm gonna start it up.
It's pretty much on par with Kitty, I'd say. Maybe it's a little bit faster. I think it is a little bit faster startup than Kitty.
But it also doesn't start full screen.
Kitty starts full screen, which I kind of like that, and was term.
West term doesn't seem to start full screen on my system.
But I can full screen it.
And I'll blow up the font.
And let's go through very similar stuff with with term. So.
Just like with Kitty. They've adopted the same similar keyboard shortcuts to the browser, so I can do for tabulation, so I can do control. Shift T.
To create new tabs. I can do control. Shift W. To.
Kill tabs just like the browser. I can do control tab to cycle forward.
I can do control, shift, tab to cycle backwards.
So all of this is just like any web browser, just like Kitty. They're the same.
As far as Western goes. I didn't see any way out of the box to.
Kind of move the tabs forward and backward, like Kitty has, you know. But I mean, how often are you really gonna use that, anyway?
But
I didn't see that out of the box. It could be there, and I just missed it.
So yeah, as far as tab functionality goes, they're essentially on par, you know.
Wes term also has splits just like.
Kit. Oh, does somebody have a comment?
Sure.
They had a Ca question chat
Excuse me, I still can't get rid of this cough. I apologize.
Question was, does it have to start full screen Kitty.
Okay, we realize, is the last one. Be configured to not start full screen.
And we lost sound.
Oh, sorry I was muted.
But you're just not okay.
Oh, dang it!
Okay. So it looks like Kitty starts. However, you had it last time for me.
So like, you see right now, I don't have it maximized. And so when I started, it's not maximized.
But when I maximize it.
And close it. Then the next time I start it.
It's gonna start maximized.
So, however, you closed it. That's how it'll open.
Wes term doesn't seem to do. That Wes term seems to always start.
Minimized
Yeah, but it does start up slightly faster. So.
There's also an answer in in the chat from Steve lis.
Lip. Excuse me, he said, on.
On his machine. He's running void, Linux. And neither Kitty nor was full screen.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
And I think it might have to do with whether you're running X 11 or Wayland as well.
Which we'll get into that slightly in a little while.
Not deeply.
Okay, all right. So back to West Term. So we are on par as far as tab functionality goes. I don't think.
I don't think you can use the mouse to change that. Somebody asked. I don't think you can use the mouse.
To change the tab position, and then you and either of them.
You can use the mouse to open new tabs in both of them.
I don't know if you can close a tab with the mouse, and Kitty, let me double check.
Oh, yeah, you can. If you middle click on the tab. And, Kitty, you'll close it.
And that's the same as a web browser. Right? If you if you're on a tab in the web browser and you do your scroll, wheel. If you click down your scroll, wheel.
That closes.
The tab. And so that's the same in both of these terminals as well. If you click with the scroll wheel that will close.
The Tab. Wester also has the X. You can click on to close the tab.
And they both have ways to open new tabs.
With the mouse as well. But let's talk about splits. So wes term like Kitty West Term can also do splits.
But with Kitty you like open the split, and then you move it. However, you want it.
But with Wes Term it's different. You have to think about.
How you want the split before you open it.
Right. And that's because there's actually 2 different keyboard shortcuts here.
So the 1st one is alt control shift.
Hmm.
So all modifiers.
Yeah, all the modifiers. And then that opens a vertical split like we see here. But then, if I do alt control shift, quote.
That opens a horizontal split.
And once they're open I don't really I couldn't. I didn't look super hard, but I didn't see a way out of the box to move them around. Once they're open.
So you just have to think about how you want them open and then open and then use the corresponding keyboard shortcut, whereas with Kitty you just.
You open them, and then you move them around after. So that's really down to.
Personal preference for me. I probably like the West term way a little bit better.
But that's just cause I'm used to them right, and you open up.
There's different commands for opening up a horizontal split or a vertical split. And so this is much more familiar for them users.
Probably then Kitty is.
But you know there, you know.
And like, I said, as far as splits go, I only ever do like 2 or 3.
And.
You know I had to write that mapping in, Kitty to get it to open a new split, and the same.
Directory.
But Wes Term does that out of the box. So if I do all shift.
You see, I was in documents over here.
And now I'm in documents over here.
So, and that's just out of the box. I didn't configure anything.
To make that happen. So it's the same thing. If I was running a build on my left split.
And I'm like, Oh, crap! I lost my! You know I lost, you know it.
My terminal is gone. I can do a new split same directory. Keep going right where I left off.
So both of them support that.
To me is a crucial feature.
Because sometimes, when you run a command, even if you background it with control, Z is still spitting out crap to the terminal. Right? So you can't really use that terminal. Still.
So control. Z doesn't super save you. There.
Okay, so let's take a look at wes terms. File.
Oh CD no.
So what you might notice right away is that wes config file is written in Lua.
Lua is a full fledged, programming language, which means that this is.
Basically the terminal version of emacs right? Because what everybody loves about emacs is that you're config file is a full blown language.
So you can program.
Emacs. Well, you can program right? Because this is Lua. It's a full blown, programming language.
And if you go to.
West terms, website.
They have a full lua reference.
Thing here where you can like.
Let's see. So like, here's the lua functions, or whatever you would call to get different information about like
Let me zoom this in a little bit about whatever tab. So if you want to get some tab information.
I think this is the Lua code that you would write. You would call like Tab, Id, or Tab Index, or something.
And there's just a bunch of this like they have their own like term.
Modules.
That you can call to make the to command the terminal to do different things, and so.
To me this is like the emacs of terminals, because.
Your config is a full blown, programming language.
And here I just have a very simple mapping.
I think maybe I forgot to show it.
Yeah. So the West term config. Sorry. Steve is asking in chat, where is the West term? Config file?
On here.
So when I installed term, it did not create a config file.
Automatically. I had to create it myself.
And I had to create the Directory too.
And you can see in the bottom left of the screen right now where that is.
As dot config term.
Slash was term dot lua.
And this is the basic syntax for creating a custom keyboard shortcut.
So you specify the key. You specify any modifiers using this kind of weird. I don't know. To me this is kind of a weird syntax, with the bar in the middle.
And then you specify what.
Basically wester kind of function or action you want to do. And so what this one does. If I create a new.
Split. Let's create several.
And then, if I do, what is it? Control? Alt, z, it zooms in. So it's zooming in to.
Whatever split I'm currently on.
And then
Oh, I don't think I showed it, but for West Term I think the default keyboard shortcut is.
Control shift, and then the arrow keys.
Is how you move between the.
The splits with them with a keyboard.
Control shift and the Arrow keys, whereas Kitty.
You do control shift, and then the brackets.
So, you know, it's functionally equivalent. There.
Okay? So that's the config file.
Stan is asking, Where is it documented? So this is the thing about West term, like, so
So here I'm typing man, T. And I'm hitting tab, and nothing is being completed.
And that's because, as far as I'm aware, I I don't know. You know, from what I can tell, there's no man page.
So there's no on the system documentation for West Term that I can find.
However, if you go to their website, they do have a pretty good documentation.
I wouldn't say it's quite at the level of Kitty, but I mean it's it's it's pretty good.
It's it's pretty good.
But you know, if you're not, if you're someone who's not comfortable coding.
Then you might not feel comfortable.
Writing.
Code to configure Wester. So that's something to.
Keep in mind. But yeah, on their website.
They have quite a bit of documentation.
And I think that you can like. See here, we see that they're configuring a color scheme.
And yes, technically, this is like a code, right? But I think that you don't have to be some kind of.
Whizbang programmer to.
To read this line right? I mean, you'll probably be confused about these 2 lines. I know I mean I am.
I don't know what these are really doing.
Cause. I don't know, Lua, that well.
But I put them in my config file and it's been working fine. I haven't really had to think about them. But yeah, these 3 lines are basically boilerplate that you have to have in your config.
And then in between those 3 lines is where you put.
Whatever code you have that'll configure the editor.
Okay.
How are we doing on time? Pretty good.
Okay, let's go back to my slides.
See what I have next. Good!
So so I did a little bit of digging into the community for well, I don't know into the project status, I guess.
For Kitty and Westerm.
And if we take a look I'm gonna see if I can pull these up side by side.
Let's see if I can pull these up side by side.
Okay. I'm not sure how well everybody can see this, but on the left side I have the pulse page from Kitty's Github.
And on the right side I have Westerms page from the Github.
And what we'll notice here. And I'm not saying this is indicative of these 2 projects, but at least for the past one month.
Well we have on. Kitty is we have Covid, the main developer, doing a ton of work. Okay? He did somehow.
67 commits in the last month.
And then we have a couple people.
Also contributing a commit or 2.
Like all these people seem to have done one or 2 commits.
If we look over on the west term side over here on the right.
We'll see. Here's.
It's only a week.
Oh, yeah, thank you. Good.
Yeah.
Let me make this one big, too, because I think this is not gonna display 100.
Oh, it did. Okay, so yeah, so one month. So here's Wes doing quite a lot of work.
23 commits.
But we'll notice there's a lot more community or contributions from people other than Wes here.
And I don't know if this is fully indicative of this project.
But you know my hunch is being written in rust. You know rust is very trendy, and there's probably a lot of people who are learning rust, and wanting to.
Find a project to commit, to.
And so there's a lot more contributions from the community.
On West Term than there are on Kitty.
And doing a little bit of research on my own. And I'm not an expert. And I'm not saying I did like an autobiography on these people.
But I think this is kind of.
Probably what you can expect on the Kitty side. It's basically
Covid going out. It's basically his show. He kind of runs the show. He's kind of like.
I don't know if you want to call them like the Linus of Kitty, you know, basically where he just does. He.
Seems to be the the main developer by a long shot.
And then on the west term side, it seems more of a community project.
To me. This is just the sense I get. Okay, I'm not an expert. This is just the sense I get. Where's term is more community. And Kitty is more one guy, you know, doing the development. So take that with a big grain of salt, though, like I said.
I didn't spend a ton of time doing this research.
Okay.
Also another thing about.
Covid? Who's the Kitty developer?
He seems brash. I'm gonna call him brash.
Cause. I've looked through some of the Github.
Commits and things, and the the issue comments.
And he seems blunt, brash.
Some people might call them an Aole. I don't know.
So if you're one of these people, if you're someone who needs the Maintainer to be nice and friendly and positive, and that's something very important to you is that the Maintainer is super.
Then Kitty might not be the editor for you.
So I was looking through Hacker news, and I saw this thread and somebody on hacker news said, Covid really bugs me, and as a reason I turned away from Kitty.
I saw his character while looking up Tux issues.
He's brash like Linus.
But at least, while Linus is calling you an idiot, he'll.
Tell you a better way to solve your problem.
So I thought that was kind of funny, and
And I. You know I.
I can see where this commenter is coming from. Looking through some of.
The Github issues. That being said, this is not something that bothers me personally like I'm I.
There's a very low chance that I'm ever gonna write code for Kitty. And so the chance of me interacting with this guy, one on one.
Very unlikely right, but.
What I will say is back in 2021, so he might have changed his mind. Now I don't know, but back in 2021.
He said. Terminal multiplexers in general are an anti pattern.
So if you are an avid T. Mux user.
It. It might work fine on Kitty. I don't know.
I I don't use tux, but if you're someone who uses nonstop, and that's the most important thing to you.
Kitty might not be the most well supported with Tuox, because.
The main developer thinks that T. Mux or he did back in 21. He thought that T. Mux is an anti pattern.
So just take that with a grain of salt is something super important to you.
Kit, you know. Try, Kitty, but if it doesn't work, you know, I wouldn't go creating issues about it, cause.
You might not get the best response. I don't know.
This is Stan. What is an antique pattern.
He? Just an anti pattern is something I don't know. Basically you should. It's the opposite of a best practice.
How's that?
Okay.
How far down the slides am I?
Thank you.
Okay, let's go ahead. And do I need a water break.
So let's go ahead and do an intermission right now.
Just give me a sec to get some water. Oh, actually wait.
I have a hot take that. I'm gonna that I'm going to drop. And then I'm gonna walk away to get some water. And I, hopefully, I start argument in the chat while an argument while I'm gone. Okay.
So I have used windows on the desktop for the past couple of years. Before that I was Linux on the desktop for the past couple of years I've used.
Windows on the desktop, and the reason why I've done that is because at work I have to use windows.
And sometimes it's nice to just use windows at home, too, because then I have the same work flow.
When I'm developing at home, and when I'm developing at work.
You know. Windows is very annoying. It's got.
It's always nagging you. It reboots all the time randomly.
So I don't like it.
But I was really looking forward to windows. Recall. You guys know what windows recall is.
No.
Yes.
Okay. So windows recall, I'm just gonna I'll briefly describe what I know about it.
So when Microsoft was coming out with their co-pilot Pcs. Which they came out with a few months ago.
They had this feature called windows recall. And basically what it was gonna do was every few seconds it was, gonna take a screenshot.
Of what's displayed on your screen.
And then they were going to basically.
Get all the text out of those screenshots.
Store it in some kind of
Storage. And then they were gonna run like AI vectorization on it and stuff like that.
And then what the result would be was that there would be a local model, I mean, if you can trust Microsoft, it would be a local model running locally on your computer that you could ask it. Things like.
Hey? Show me that motorcycle I was looking at last week.
Right. And you could ask a local AI.
To show you things like that. And since it was taking a screenshot of your.
Of your of what's on your computer every like. Few seconds.
It should be able to basically return that for you like, oh, here's the motorcycle you were looking at last week and provide you the link to the motorcycle you were looking at, or whatever.
And to me that sounds like a super useful thing, right? I feel.
I feel like it's a really bad idea to be on by default, because, like.
People are still out there, clicking on.
Malware all the time, and you don't want the bad guys to be able to grab.
All that data so easily. So I think it should be off by default.
But I have a pretty good track record of not getting hacked, not getting malware, not clicking on random things.
I haven't had any malware on any of my systems like the odds.
So I'm not that scared personally I should be, but I'm not that scared of a hacker like breaking into my system and stealing that data.
Of like everything that's been on my screen every few seconds.
And I. So I think for me the benefit of having a local AI that I can ask.
Things about what I've done on my computer sounds super.
Helpful compared to the risk, right for me personally.
But they delayed the feature. There was so much backlash because people are so scared.
That that they delayed the feature.
And so I don't even have that to look forward to. And so now I'm switching to Linux because.
It's less annoying. And I don't have windows recall to look forward to, because who knows when they're gonna actually bring it out.
So that's my hot take, because I was really looking forward to windows, and I'm really upset at well, not really upset. But I'm a little bit annoyed at the.
General tech people like y'all.
For a given Microsoft so much as they delay it. So.
There's my hot take, please discuss while I go grab some water.
Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby.
When you're age.
Love, the love of.
Geared, guillotine, guotine.
This is.
I got a cool new tucker file.
God.
What?
Alright!
Yeah, I built the system with 9 optical drives and.
Figured out how to make.
The automatic machine to work.
Automatic gripping machine. What does that do.
It makes it so that when I put a.
DVD. CD.
Data CD into the drive. It identifies it, and then.
Starts up the appropriate ripping.
Softer make him qv. Or I think.
Oh, I see!
So all I have to do is.
Shuffle discs in and out.
Yeah.
That.
Microsoft recall. He was talking about.
Yeah.
Can you imagine how complicated that must be with if they're gonna take screenshots.
And use an AI to extract information from that.
You imagine how freaking complicated that'll be worse on a German car?
Yeah, there's gonna be a full blown.
Sqlite data file. And there is like, Huh.
If I'm a hacker, I'm going after that sqlite file.
Yeah, really, no kidding.
Unless you're stupid.
Well, that that was the initial problem was that they were not encrypting any of that at risk.
Nope.
And and supposedly they're they're gonna have it fixed by November.
Blah blah blah, you know it's and.
I don't. I don't know that. Doesn't. That just doesn't interest me that much. But.
You know. I mean, then you gotta encrypt all of that. Oh, my God! You see the complexity that we complex.
Let alone the fact. It's got decrypted to use it.
Which means as long as you're the mail where you're running as you, it's got access to it. Anyways.
Yeah.
Now in.
Or at least they use sequel light and not excel.
Well, also imagine if somebody breaks into your system and captures all that they've got this super key, and with the assistance of some artificial intelligence, they can impersonate you to the point of how are you ever gonna.
Establish your identity. Again. Period.
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.
You're.
Yep, that's the reason why it's being delayed.
There's reason.
My newest Microsoft system is windows 7.
Oh, I just installed.
Well, okay, keep people off of windows and put some on Linux. That's a good thing.
I just installed.
Windows, 10 Ltsc.
Which is good till 20 like 30.
And it's just windows.
And they what.
It's just windows 10.
Oh, Microsoft store. No.
Features, just windows.
So there, you know, when I want to play a game that's.
Has to run on the windows. Kernel.
Because some God, awful.
Anti, gene.
I got a copy of Windows.
And it's not garbage.
It's actually good. I would.
Actually call all it.
That's got to be an accent.
On par with windows. 7.
Yeah, you know my old windows? 7. It's been running upstairs.
Oh, God! Since.
At least 2,013.
And
I keep it around to support a particular printer that I have.
That Linux never used to support that cannon, but.
It's been years since I looked so that may have changed.
Well.
Alright, that was a good discussion. Thanks all for giving me a little break. There.
Nice.
Let's go ahead and continue unless anybody's got any last thoughts.
Off of his head.
Okay.
Everybody, move down, move down.
Alright. Let's talk about some of these fancy Ssh features that these new terminals have, and.
And, please, I am just barely scratching the bucket here with what these thing or barrel just barely.
Dipping my toe into what these things can actually do. I just want to show you the very basics of what's possible here with these. So.
Let me go ahead. I'm gonna start with Kitty.
Again, just to let me close that that should not be open.
Second, sorry.
Figure out how to maximize this zoom thing in my way.
The data.
Okay. Go here.
This is Kitty. Okay.
And I'm gonna show off some fancy Ssh stuff. So if I do get in.
This is one of those kittens I was talking about earlier. They're like built in programs that come with Kitty.
That basically allow you to control.
Itself. And then I'm gonna do Shawn at odrooid h 3 plus. That's my little server thing running over here.
And now let's go into. I don't know. Do I have some.
What do I have here? Let's go into Doc.
That should exist. Right? Yeah. Okay.
So now I'm in the server.
Okay. So thing I'm doing serious business here. And I'm serious work business.
And then I'm gonna do my alt control. Enter.
And look at this. I have a new split.
That's in the same server.
Okay? And the same folder.
And the same server that I was just in.
Okay, so cool.
So cool. So if you're doing some like
I don't know. Journal ctl. Something, and you're watching all this text fly by, and then you're like.
Wait a second.
I want to. I want to investigate something.
You can like. Just leave this open. Leave the top split open a new split.
W. With one key press. You have a new split on the same.
Server, you know. Whatever you go, cat, whatever file you jump back up, you page, through, up here a bit more. You jump back, down you ls, whatever file it's.
Just being able to open a new split in the same exact folder on the remote server. Super cool, in my opinion.
Really handy. Just that alone is great.
Cause so many times. I'm like I less one log file.
And then I like close it, I less another one. Then I close that one. I go back to the 1st one and try to find that time.
You know, I'm trying to match up the timestamps and stuff like that.
And like. Sometimes I get fancy, and I do the thing where you can open more than one file, unless at the same time, and I like flip back and forth, but sometimes I don't do that. I don't think I need to.
You know, and just being able to like. Okay, let me leave that less open.
And let me just open a new.
Split, and it's gonna be right there. So I'll just that other file, the other split, and then bam, I have 2 lesses side by side and like.
You know, just a few keystrokes, you know. And to me this is like a really cool feature.
This is a cool enough feature that it's worth.
Aliasing Ssh.
To be.
This, in my opinion, the kitten ssh.
So, in my opinion, this is a really cool feature, like I said, these terminals can both do way more fancy Ssh stuff than this.
But I'm just showing you something that's like immediately useful. I think everybody can understand immediately.
Why, that that's useful. So this is term.
Okay. So I closed Kitty. And now I'm in West Term, and I'm gonna show you how to do the same thing.
And western. So let me.
So for for Kitty, for Kitty it was Kitten Ssh, and for Western it's just term. Ssh.
And I'm gonna hit. Enter here.
And for some reason.
It opens it in a new window.
I don't know why that is.
But it does. It opens it in a new window, and let me go to my configory.
And then, if I do, the keyboard shortcut for West term, which is all control, shift.
Quote, it opens it.
On the same server.
But not in the same folder. So we're pretty. It's it's close. It's still better than.
Opening it up in my home directory. At least it's connected to the server. It's just not in the same folder.
So West term not quite as good.
But.
Better than like known terminal, or whatever you know.
In my opinion.
So that is a very.
Very short, look.
At fancy ssh.
Any questions about that.
I don't use teams, but can teams do the same kind of thing?
So, T. Mux, you have to install on your server right for it to do any good.
You have to have Tx installed in whatever you're voting into.
And for Kitty you don't have, and for these, for doing what I don't have Western nor Kitty installed on my little server thing up there.
So you don't have to install anything on the server to get that functionality.
But so.
You can run teams from your workstation have as many.
Panels open as you want to, on 14,000 different servers.
Yeah, it's got all that screen splitting and tabbing and jumping from one to the other.
I did a presentation on that a couple of years ago, and
If somebody's interested, I've I've got the
Oh, I've got the the presentation. Basically, I can.
Send it to anybody who wants it.
Oh!
Yeah. But does it open new tab.
Group.
And does it open it in the same server like, if you open a new pane and.
Does it go to the same server? Same directory, though, cause that's the killer feature to me.
It does, doesn't it, Lee?
No, because the window you're opening is on the machine. You're running T-MOX on.
Oh, excuse me!
But you know.
Now I have to get us. I'm gonna have to get something out and go to my one machine that's always got T. Mucks on it.
So does any of these have a multi executive.
Tabs.
So you can type or command, or it'll type it in every.
Tab.
Where was?
Yeah, Kitty has that, too, where you can like broadcast.
Multiple splits. I don't know about taps, but splits.
I'm not gonna demo that, though.
Oh, you don't want to shut down the entire infrastructure in one swell.
Hmm, yeah, that's right. One typo. And.
You know you're fired because you did the wrong thing and took everything. And now, poor little.
Poor Muffy and Buffy aren't gonna have a father anymore. And.
Yeah.
Okay, let's keep on.
Keep on going here. So both of these terminals are somewhat cross platform. So Kitty works on.
Linux, Mac and Bsd. And Wester works on Linux Macd, and Windows.
So if you're somebody who has to use windows and.
You want to use the same terminal on windows and Linux.
Then west term is gonna be.
Your way to go. If you want to run Kitty on windows, you can run Gui applications from Wsl. 2.
And it uses like Wayland and everything. It's pretty slick.
But it's not fully integrated with.
Like things like the task bar and stuff like that.
Okay. Now, let's get to the Whalen story.
So
So, Kitty, for me. So this is me personally on my system, which is Nvidia and Gnome.
When I launched a Wayland session. Kitty worked just fine out of the box.
No issues, fast.
Great on that same setup when I launched Wes Term. It did not work. It would hang every few seconds. It would hang.
And kind of like. Try to do a 4, and no one asked me to do a force. Quit.
And if we look here at these links.
So if you notice on.
Always, that being slow.
Let me open both these. They're both slow.
Can you all hear me? Am I live.
Yeah.
Yes, we hear you.
Hmm.
Maybe I won't be able to show this. That's strange.
Well, okay. Anyway, I was gonna demonstrate it. But it's not. It's not that important, really.
But basically
If you look at the recent release notes from just the past few months with Kitty, you'll see Wayland Wayland Wayland, where he's just constantly making Wayland improvements to Kitty out of the box.
And if you look at the recent release notes for West Term, what they're gonna tell you is.
They are currently implementing Wayland, I guess, from the ground up, or something.
So they say it's gonna be more unstable than usual. So.
So both of these terminals are putting in a lot of active work.
To support Wayland. It just seems like Kitty is a little bit farther along.
Then Wayland, and then West term is.
At least on my system. That's how it worked.
That's how it was.
Hey, hey, Shawn, before you.
Leave. Leave this point. I was gonna ask up something and then get a chance.
Do either of these.
Tools have any sort of like integration, or
You know any debugger integration.
Debugger.
In other words, like ide.
Oh, well, I mean they both run.
Cool.
See again!
They both run neo vm, which can have that.
Okay.
But.
That's all I know about.
I mean, what? What terminal specific do you like or features? Are you looking for.
Well, no, I'm I'm just trying to figure out if.
This is, in other words, I use.
Yeah, you know, normal bash exterm and teams.
All the time. You know, every every system I work on has teams.
And I've got my own config file set up. But what.
I. Every once in a while I get in a situation where I want to debug something.
And I actually got involved in a windows project last year, and I.
Kind of like video studio, a little bit.
I hate to jump into something that's.
That complicated. I'm just wondering if there's a middle ground anywhere.
Nope.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can definitely do that with, neo, vm, but good luck, like, it's gonna you're gonna have to become an expert in neo vm configuration to get that working
Okay.
I mean, the easiest way to do that is just gonna be Vs code that's going to be the most straightforward out of the box.
Vs code is going to be the most straightforward way to get something like that. Working.
Which.
Yeah, act.
You know, really nothing to do with the terminal.
I grab VS. Codium.
I've been playing with that a little bit.
That's the open source version. It runs on Linux.
Yep, and I think.
Shawn, can you? Ca, can you give a executive overview 5 seconds of what is for those that don't know.
Oh, man, so Wayland is a new as a replacement for X. Okay, so it's my understanding that I've never looked at the X code.
But it's my understanding that the X code, like the code for X, like the X server and x 11.
Is really old, I mean, that's just a fact. It's really old.
My understanding is, it's really hard to make any changes.
And the fact is that a lot of these systems have been using X for so many decades that.
Any change you make could have so many unattended consequences right? For something that's been around that long.
And so X is basically dead. I mean X and x, 11.
You could say they're dead. You could say they're feature complete, you could say, but the point is, they're not getting.
Any significant new work. It sounds like to me.
Just because the code is really difficult to work with and maintain.
Wayland is a.
Replacement for x. 11 and x
X server and all that. And it's been around for over a decade, I think 16 years or something is how long Wayland's been around.
And really Wayland is like a specification.
And then there's different implementations of Wayland, like roots and.
Mutter, and some others.
And and they're basically implementations of the whale and spec.
And I I am very much speaking out of school here, so if anybody knows better, feel free to jump in, I think, for people who don't use Nvidia graphics cards. Wayland has been rock solid for several years now.
And as long as you don't need to do like.
Remote desktop type stuff.
Which only, I think, only became available in Wayland relatively recently.
But for people on Nvidia cards.
Wayland still poses a pretty significant challenge, but I think.
That should be changing.
In the next couple months, because.
Now that Nvidia is making all the money.
They decided they should probably support Linux a little bit better.
And so they actually open sourced a part of their.
The part of their driver that like interacts with the kernel. I mean, of course, they're still proprietary blobs for their driver.
But I think.
I think now you can like install like
I don't know. I don't fully understand it, but basically the the Nvidia story on Wayland should be getting very much better when it and.
A bunch to 2410 and Fedora 41, or whatever the next version of Fedora is, they're both gonna include.
The fixes that should make Wayland and Nvidia.
Work, much better, so.
So bottom line is if you tried several years ago, and it sucked.
It might be time to update your opinion when a bunch of 2410 and the next version of Fedora comes out.
How's that, Dan?
Thank you. That's great. Thank you.
I learned some stuff I didn't know about.
I'm I missed that. Oh, wow!
We have a recording that's going to be posted tomorrow.
Yeah, but by tomorrow I won't remember to ask the question.
Will it be an entirely new session for you? Won't.
Gordon.
Everything will be entirely new for you. You can start asking questions from the beginning, and then, if you have a real question, you could post it up on Discuss Mailing List.
What did you say? Your name is.
Chief, Steve the the 30 second, 30,000 foot overview.
Wayland is a halfway logically designed replacement for X.
Because X is so huge and.
It's like an amoeba and a sci-fi movie.
Spaghetti code.
Beginning. Code. Yeah. Good. Good analogy.
But Wayland is, is theoretically a clean sheet design that tries to.
Architect to be a better window manager.
But, as Shawn said, it's been around for 16 years.
And I've tried it 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years.
And there was just so much stuff that didn't work, I said, forget it.
So it may or may not be ready for prime time yet.
One of the biggies has been hardware compatibility and video has been a big issue.
For people that, like Nvidia, hardware.
General.
Yeah.
Okay, let's keep moving here.
Not gonna worry about it for a while.
Yeah, wait until the next version of a bunch and the next version of Fedora come out, and I think that'll.
There'll be a lot better.
Now, which version of a bunch should I be looking for.
The next version is gonna be 2410, which should come out next month.
Okay.
But that's just an interim release. So.
Not long term, support.
I was gonna start when's and 24.
What's going to be the long term? Support 20.
18.
26 0, 4, I guess.
Well, 24 0. 4 should be a long-term.
Yeah, but it doesn't include the newest Nvidia stuff to fix that. Well, I guess if you don't use an Nvidia.
Gpu. Then do whatever you want. But there's some Nvidia specific.
This should be landing in 2410.
And the next version of Fedora.
Okay.
Alright, let's go on so both of these terminals are gpu accelerated.
And I don't know how to really benchmark a terminal, and I didn't bother learning.
How to do that. So instead, I just did some really basic crap here. So on the left side, I have ran.
Time, ls, dash, L. Capital, R.
On my route. Slash.
And so basically, what this does is this lists every file on my route.
Partition, which you know is a lot of files.
And Kitty was able to perform perform that like listing all the files and.
13 seconds, and Wester did it in about 13 seconds as well. They were literally within like 100 200 ms of each other so no noticeable performance. Difference with listing.
All the files in my root file system.
But then, you know, being, you know, being that I am, I'm like, well, let's crank it up and see what happens.
So my next test was to.
To display 10 million lines.
So just crank it up by a couple of orders of magnitude.
And see which terminal could display 10 million lines. The fastest.
And the winner by a long shot was Kitty.
So Kitty was able to display 10 million lines of text.
And about 21 seconds.
West term took about a minute and 15 seconds to display 10 million lines.
I didn't see that one M. Out there. Okay, gotcha.
So I don't know why West Term is so much slower at displaying 10 million lines of text, but it is like.
Or like way slower, you know, like 4 times slower, or something like that, displaying 10 million lines of text. And I I don't know why? Because if you look at the.
If you look at the Cis and the user numbers there between the 2 terminals.
It's exactly the same.
Which, and and I think that those numbers probably represent, like how much time it took to like, generate 10 million like generate the 10 million.
Lines of random characters, probably.
And then, for some reason, Wester and it was. It was consistent every time it would take.
Like around a minute. 15 seconds to do it, and I don't understand.
15.
Why it was so much slower than Kitty, but.
If but also does this matter right like, when are you ever gonna ask your terminal to display.
10 million lines of text.
You know, I don't think that's realistically something you're gonna do.
What's that?
There was Tuesday, and there.
Yeah, but I will say, though, so just completely my subjective opinion, I think Kitty is faster and smoother, like like whenever I'm typing commands. And Kitty, and whenever I'm seeing the output come in, it just feels rightively. It feels.
More instantaneous than West. Turn.
But my system's very old, right? I have a.
G. CPU from 2,016. So it's old.
8 years old and to me, Kitty feels more performance, and I guess that is technically backed up here by the data. So.
But that's just my feeling of it.
Okay, let's keep going. And then, after I ran those 2 benchmarking commands, I ran a pmap on each terminal.
And Kitty was using about 430 MB of RAM.
And Westerm was using about a gigabyte of RAM.
So if you're on a memory constrained system.
Definitely use Kitty over West term uses about twice as much over twice as much RAM.
Oh, here we go, the finale! Well, at least the best part.
So.
The Kitty graphics protocol. Okay.
Yes, it has, Kitty in the name. That's because it was created by the same guy who creates Kitty.
But the Kitty Graphics protocol has been implemented by a few terminals, so Kitty has implemented it. Obviously Wes Term has implemented it. Console, has implemented it, and ghosty, which is a very
Exclusive invite only terminal emulator that's got all the.
Buzz right now. If that can even be a thing.
But yeah, several terminals have implemented the Kitty graphics protocol.
And I'm really excited to show this off. So I'm gonna show it off first.st And Kitty.
So for all of you that think that a terminal is a text only experience.
This is gonna prove you wrong. Okay.
Whether you like it or not.
So.
Alright. So what I'm gonna do here is I'm going to use another one of these kittens.
So what this says is kitten, and then eye cat, which stands for image cat. I think.
And then here, I'm setting the background. I don't know if you see that.
I'm setting the background to white.
Because the image that I'm displaying has a transparent background. It's a Png.
And then I'm just giving it the name of a file.
Which is the distro flavor of the month Png.
And so when I run this command, we're gonna see the.
Distro flavor of the month displayed.
On a white, on a white background.
But wait. There's more. Okay.
Yeah, what about transparency?
They? Well, this Png is transparent, and so if I didn't put the background white, you wouldn't see the nix, because it'd be black on black.
Okay.
Okay, but wait, there's more. It can display gifts as well. So here is a matrix gif.
Running inside my terminal.
Yeah, but your terminal is running in an or extra wayland window, though.
Right.
Yeah, but you can't. I mean, you're what you say you use like a X term or something. It can't do this. It can't display.
But that's what I'm.
Yeah.
Yeah, there is an external version.
Pick an open images like you can open an external program that'll view images.
Yeah.
But you can't display images, and and that old thing.
Well, you know.
85% of the teammuck stuff I do is.
I ssh, to a remote machine that can be anywhere in the country.
Or basically, and you know, do maintenance work on it?
And I've got, you know, 4, 5.
Panels open and T. Mucks.
I've got a.
A you know I'm a personal Id. If I'm doing doctor work.
Got a couple root panels for doing.
You know, package updates and stuff like that.
But you know there is no link between that.
Those 2 systems that would handle.
X. So I guess the point I was making is this works. If you're running that terminal on the local machine.
But it can't work if it's running on a remote machine right.
Maybe, but but the whole point here is like.
So for decades the terminal has been text only.
And if you run into something, fancy like an image file, you're just up a creek. You have to use some external application. Well, not anymore. Okay. Now.
Terminals can be graphical. And yes, okay, maybe it doesn't work that well, remotely. If you have low bandwidth or whatever.
This is this is Stan. This is Stan.
Also terminals can do. Okay, is everybody seeing this?
Who's seeing this? Okay, I.
We all see it.
Zoom in the terminal. Okay? And I will prove it to you. Okay, I'm gonna run.
I am gonna run top.
On this side, and doom.
On this side. Okay.
And I'm gonna play through the 1st Level. Gonna watch me play through the 1st level of doom in my terminal while Top is running in a different split. Okay, y'all are. Gonna watch me. And I'm gonna do really good.
Hmm.
I am elite. Gamer. Okay, this is gonna happen.
I used to love this game back in whatever was the 90 s.
Yeah.
Telling me that's not cool, and I'm running doom.
Inside of a terminal emulator. Okay, somebody ported.
To a terminal emulator. Okay.
Top running right next to them. I can monitor my system.
While beating the 1st level of doom. Okay, come on. And how do you close terminal applications? When you're done, you hit control. C.
And you'll see close that thing.
Okay. Cool.
Pretty.
Alright whole talk is worth it just because of that alright.
Cool.
In the past I've seen Ranger do the same kind of thing, and that there was a thing I believe the name was.
Zxg.
Some for graphical thing within a terminal.
But now the sophisticated is this, Kitty thing is.
Not as sophisticated.
Hidey.
You might have found something that emacs cannot do.
I love it.
Okay? And like, I said, wes term has also implemented the Kitty graphics protocol.
So right now I'm in Western.
Alright wes term.
And Westeram can do similar things slightly different.
Oh, whoops! I did not mean to do that!
I don't know what. I guess. I copied my entire demo. Let me.
Sorry I'm I'm choosing, I guess.
2 h into the presentation to start making typos. I don't let me try that again.
Okay? Oh, yeah, I forgot. So what is terms? Version is called West. So in Kitty Run kitten.
Icat and West term you run West term.
Image, cat.
And for some reason it can't display that one. I don't understand it.
I didn't look into it at all. Term can't display that one, but Kitty can.
But West Term can display this one. The matrix gif.
So I don't know what's going on there.
But it does implement the Kitty graphic protocol so it can do.
They can do this stuff as well.
So let's play. Do them again.
There we go!
So it can display doom.
And it'll show us doom. You know, this is like the little I don't know pre running animation thing.
But if I try to play it usually.
And I don't know. Yeah, see? I just hit.
Up one time, and now it's like stuck.
Where, like, I'm just running into a wall.
So I don't really.
And see now I can't. I'm pushing all these buttons, and nothing's happening so.
So I don't really know why it doesn't work.
Could be something I'm doing wrong, or I don't know. But
We use a standard. So solitaire test. Okay?
Just.
Are? Are you running Sean, or X.
X.
Okay.
Westerham didn't work for me on Wayland.
I showed that slide earlier. They have a thing in the doc saying we're overhauling support, so it might not work.
So, yeah, definitely running X, right now, because I figured apples to apples. I'll run X for West terms for both, you know.
Yeah, if they want to replace.
X with Wayland, I mean I'm not opposed.
X. Is hard on the bandwidth. I've noticed that.
But
X has been around so long. It's like windows, you know. You have no idea what's really in there.
Right.
You know.
Yeah. It sounds like nobody knows.
Well, that could very well be.
I've once pulled up a copy of you remember X term the.
The terminal emulator, that.
I guess it came with XI don't know, but.
I I still use extern.
So you want. You mean the one Lee still uses.
And Stan.
Well, I I got the source code for it. I wanted to do something, and I so I opened up.
The the head file.
And I start looking at the comments right? A smack at the top.
And it says, Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.
So even waste your time.
It works, leave it alone.
Or go write something else, you know, basically.
Honey.
But yeah, I looked at. I looked at that for a while. Jeez.
Kill the editor, you know.
Yeah, it.
Yeah. Did. Just as a as.
To some of the discussion. I just did a quick scanned on remote whaling.
It looks like it uses Rdp.
I think I've heard that as well. Yeah.
Yeah, for remote control. So.
That means simple stuff like our desktop.
You know, should be able to connect, but.
That's a pain in the butt on Linux. I.
I actually I forget what I did a couple of years ago. I had a project to connect to a Linux server on azure.
And the Gui was just a royal pain in the butt.
It was really hard to do.
Okay, I'm I'm sorry, Sean. Go ahead.
And now. But now you can play doom, even if you don't have without the Gui. So who needs guis anymore, play doom in the terminal without need. Gui's anymore. Alright.
Alright. Okay. So I want to show off. I'm almost done. I know I've gone too long, like always. But I want to show off a couple of unique features. So these are features.
I have no doubt that you can for each of these features that I'm about to show off. I have no doubt that you can configure the other one.
To do the same thing if you like. Put enough.
Work into your configuration.
But there's some unique features that each one of these kind of has better support for out of the box that I wanna show. And with Kitty it has this really cool ability of hyperlinking that I really want to show off.
And then with West Term, it has this really cool ability to select text with the keyboard.
And so I just want to show off a couple of these unique features, and then we'll get to my.
My conclusion slide, and then we are all done.
So here is Kitty.
So this is Kitty. Okay.
Alright, and so if we look at is this it.
Yes, if we look at my aliases.
I have, alias Ls. To have this thing called hyperlink equals auto.
And this is just in standard. Ls, there's nothing funky about this. Ls, it's just completely standard.
And then if I do so now, if I do like an Ls dash Al.
When I hover my mouse over any of these.
You see that it gets this little underline hopefully that's coming through, but it gets a little underline.
Under it, and my cursor changes to a
A little hand. So you know you're on a link.
And I've got it configured. Where if I click on a folder.
Like documents. It's going to.
Into documents, and then it'll do an Ls Al.
Okay. So when I click on a folder, that's what it does.
It's Cds, it doesn't. Ls, so I could literally.
Click my way.
Through the file system.
Using the mouse.
But you know people don't like using the mouse. So if I push control, PY.
Now, what it's done is, it? Has put a.
I guess a letter, or a number.
Next to every hyperlink here.
And so if I want to go into like this images, I hit 5.
Oh, Nope, that didn't work!
Oh, yeah, that doesn't work on the folders.
But, like here, let me do it on this. If I'm gonna hit one.
So basically, I might have that too fast, but basically hit control. Py, and it puts that little number. And then you push the number, and that's simulates clicking.
On the thing. So every time you see me click on something you could do that control shift, Py.
Maneuver instead. Okay.
And so, you know, now I want to go back up to where I was, so I can click on the 2 dots.
And that should take me up a directory up a directory.
Up a directory. Now I'm back where I started.
And then if I click on.
Let me go into my dot config.
And I'll do an Ls here.
Wonder why that didn't show.
Maybe need to add a.
But anyway I'll click on this monitors. Xml.
And that's gonna open in nevm.
So clicking on a text file.
Opens it in my editor.
And I have something messed up right now, because if I click on.
For example, if I click on this Miam apps list.
It's going to open it in Vs code.
Which is not what I want. I'd rather just open it in E. Of M.
And this isn't something to do with the mime types. I know that.
I was messing with this this morning.
It's something to do with the mime types where this is mime type application. Xml, this is mine type. Mime.
Type, text, plain.
And something about that is messing this stuff up.
But I'll I'll get that fixed. But still you can click on these and open them up.
And your editor. But that's not all.
Okay. Let me
Show you something else that's even cooler. Okay, I hope you're ready.
Let me go into my Kitty Directory.
And let me paste this command, I think.
Okay, so what I did.
Let me show the command. So I ran. Kitten.
And then I ran hyperlinked grep.
And I searched for.
The word layout case, and sensitive.
And the Kitty config file.
Has a ton of the word layout all over it right.
And so if I click on one of these lines like this one.
This one says the current layout name is line 10.
80 if I click on that.
It opens any of them.
And it takes me exactly to the line.
That I clicked on.
And I think this is so cool.
Being able to grab.
A file, and then.
Click on it, or use that keyboard shortcut.
And bam. I'm taking exactly to that line.
In the file that I was grabbing, and I think that is so cool.
So I think Kitty has a really awesome for like this hyperlinks.
And stuff, and if we just take a quick look.
At this openactions.com, and this is in the Kitty configurate.
This is how you configure.
These kind of open actions. And so this is the one right here.
That does the
Jumping straight to the line.
And the way that this works is anytime it sees the start of a line with like a letter.
And I guess it adds a hyperlink to it.
And then it passes it in.
You see with with them and neo them if you put this plus, and then the line number right here, it opens it directly to that line number.
And so that's how that's working. And I think it's super. I think it's super cool. I think that's really neat being able to do that.
And I don't think you can do that as easily.
With wes term.
And you might be able to do it, but I don't think you can do it that easily.
So, okay, so that's kitties, cool, unique feature.
Let's look at wes terms. Cool, unique feature as well.
So I am in West Term now.
And if I do something like this.
So let's say I'm.
Let's say I'm.
Okay. So I ran this command, and I want to select.
This text here, I can push, control, shift.
And what this does is this puts me in copy mode.
And you can see here I'm using the vim keyings.
To move my cursor up and down.
And I can like, for example, I can do like y capital y.
To copy the line and then paste it.
And then paste it, and then paste it.
All that control shift X.
The line.
And then paste it. There we go, and I could do like less, or whatever.
And then I could list that file.
Or whatever whatever I need to do. But the point is, it makes it really easy.
To select text.
From previous commands that you've ran.
And it uses of mkings which, if you're familiar with them, then that'll be super easy for you to do, and.
Kitty can't do this as well as West term out of the box. Of course you can configure it.
But out of the box. It does not do this as well as.
Westerm does so. This is kind of the unique feature.
West Term has that Kitty doesn't.
For a patent for the airplane.
What was that?
We have a lot of great history in this town, and I've been a lifelong citizen here.
1, 59 years, and I my trucks loaded.
The last of my things outside.
Thanks. Got their mic open.
Put that.
Killed.
Muted me. What the heck.
Okay, here's my, I think my final slide here, which is good. So.
It.
Right as you be done. So these are my subjective thoughts. After playing with both of these terminals for a while.
To me. Kitty is smoother, it has a higher. I think. I think it has a higher fts.
So I've been a gamer since I was like a small child.
And I'm 1 of these people that can notice when, like the frames per second, like drops below 30 fps on a video game.
And I think I can tell.
That Kitty has a higher frame rate when I'm using it.
Also subjectively my opinion, Katie, has better font, rendering.
And a better default. Color scheme.
Also Kitty worked on Wayland for me out of the box without doing anything.
So those are the pros.
For me of Kitty the subjective pros.
Of Kitty. You know it has more features, too. I think that's just objective. I don't think there's.
Any doubt there the cons for Kitty, which these don't bother me at all.
But you know I talked about the developer being kind of brash, or blunt, or straightforward, or whatever.
That seems to be true. And also he seems at least he was back in the day, kind of hostile to multiplexers like T. Mux, which I don't care. I don't use T. Mux.
So the cons for Kitty.
Don't really bother me.
Moving over to the west term side, you know it runs on windows, you know. So that is, if you have to use windows, then that's your only option. So go with Wester.
Also Wes term is configured with Lua. You know, I talked about how it is basically the emacs of terminals, because your configuration is done in a full blown.
Programming language. So if you're if you like that then that's gonna be cool. I you know me personally.
Not sure I love that.
Seems like a lot of work to me.
Also the developer from what I can sense like being around and looking on hacker news and stuff.
The developer of Wester is generally well liked as opposed to.
The developer of Kitty, who is like brash, and turns some people off.
So if you're someone who cares a lot about.
Having a Maintainer who's like polite and nice all the time.
Then Western might be the better one for you to go to.
And then the cons under Westerm are basically all the pros for Kitty. I felt like.
It didn't work. It didn't work on Wayland, on my system.
The performance was worse. This slightly worse spot rendering.
Slightly worse default, color, scheme.
But these are mostly my subjective opinions, and everybody's gonna have their own opinion about a lot of this stuff.
But for me I'm gonna be using like when I.
Like. Now that this presentation's done, I'm gonna go uninstall and configure.
The keyboard shortcuts that I like in Kitty tomorrow, because I've been trying to use the defaults for this presentation. And now that it's done. I'm gonna go put the keyboard shortcuts that I like in Kitty.
And start using that as my my daily driver. So that's the.
If I had to pick one who won the showdown.
Certainly for me. It's Kitty.
Okay, that's my last slide. Does anybody have any questions.
Cool.
I certainly do.
Sure.
Okay, so.
About a year ago I tried both of these on a Mac OS and
And I was very disappointed because at that time.
The accessibility story was.
Virtually nonexistent.
Neither neither one.
Worked with voiceover.
And I don't know if it on Linux, if it works with Orca.
It might I mean Orca.
Is orchestrated.
Using python, and Kitty's got some python in it, I guess.
So maybe there's some.
Interaction. There, that's possible.
But it doesn't work on Mac OS or Voiceover.
At least it didn't. A year or so ago.
That is a bummer.
And the reason, I think the reason why is because.
Of the Gpu, right? So.
At your literally the text.
From your shell. Right is being.
Driven directly to the Gpu, and then.
Using that to render fonts.
And then, you know.
Making a screen, you know. Do the screen.
Geometry, stuff and.
I think, in order to be a.
Accessible thing.
For her a terminal client. You have to have.
You! I think you literally have to.
Interact with the operating system, or at least the.
The screen, reader.
Component of the operating system.
You have to interact with it before you send the text over there.
So I worked with. I don't know if you've heard this other terminal called Warp.
Which is another one that's written in rust.
Orp is a little bit more.
They've got a whole different philosophy when it comes to.
What constitutes a term.
But anyway, I worked with them. I was actually on the team.
That was doing accessibility.
Testing for a warp.
And they really had to.
It was written in rust, and they really had to like.
You know. Do a lot of extra work to get it to work on Mac OS.
So I don't know and of course doesn't matter at the time. There's a Mac OS, only.
From me later
So anyway, so.
I hope it changes.
And I was thinking, Well, maybe, Kitty, but.
If if you can't go, talk to them.
If you can't go, say, Hey, where's your accessibility?
Maybe Western is easier to do that. I don't know.
Love, to try.
Who.
No, that's a good call out. And yeah, you're probably right. It probably is like the Gpu stuff, right? It's probably like.
I mean, really, the terminals are basically like.
Video games right where, like all the internal stuff is basically on the Gpu. So.
Yeah, I can imagine where that would be challenging to have.
And I thought about, you know.
Actually brought that up before I even gave the talk. It's like, okay, so are you doing a modern terminal.
Talk. And you're not gonna include warp.
But warp is a closed source, and so.
For that reason it doesn't super interest me that much.
Yeah, they're gonna make it open source eventually. But.
The I guess, whatever.
Nice.
There, you know, like a lot of people. I.
You know proofs and the pudding.
It's like. Carrie asked a question in chat. Can you set it up with multiple sessions?
Then save where you are and come back to that after a reboot.
So I don't know if you can save the sessions with Kitty.
But I know both of the terminal support session. So if you.
If you have like, you know.
You know, if you if you when you start your terminal, you want to see 4 tabs and you want them to be in these specific.
Directories, and you want these certain applications, like Top, or whatever, to be running in certain tabs.
You can set it up to where you basically just start the app and it automatically launches all that stuff.
I don't know if you could like. Set it all up and save it. I have not seen.
That functionality. But I you know it could exist, and I just don't know about it, especially.
With West Term. I can. I can especially.
Imagine that happening with West Term.
I'm sure somebody's probably wrote the Loua Code, you know, in their config to make something like that happen.
Possibly so.
Unless I mean, I'm trying to formulate this question in an intelligent way.
Which, of course, for me is impossible. But
Are any of the.
Terminal emulators.
Do you need a
A matching piece of software on the.
Target side. In other words, I want to term into.
That particular server over there, do you.
Could we always just use the default? Ports go in or.
You need.
Do any of them require software to run on the server end.
Yeah, they definitely don't require it, like I don't nothing that I showed requires having.
Anything installed on the server.
But they do both have capabilities where.
If you do install it on the server, they can do extra whizbang things.
But I didn't go into those. I I mean, I've seen them in the documentation, so I know they exist.
But I don't have any details about what extra whizbang stuff you get by installing it on the server.
We're just talking about that earlier today in preparation for.
Tonight's talk. I was like, I've I've never heard of such a thing. But yeah, I figured I'd ask, okay, cool.
Yeah, West term specifically has, like a mux, or like a multiplexer built in. So if you install that on the server.
I think it can do a lot of similar things to actual my understanding.
But you'd have to install it on all the servers that you want that functionality on.
Alright. Well, I think that about wraps it so Gary back to you, or whatever we're doing next.
Just here.
Hey, Sean? Oh, hey, Sean, thank you. Just just when you thought gee! What could possibly be new in the world of.
Terminals, wow.
I have one more question.
There. Okay, yeah.
Alright!
I don't know if this was in the slides. I could see him, but was there like.
You know, like links to Github for these guys, or something.
Could you post that somewhere.
Yeah, there are, Link. I did put the links to their personal github ones. Let me post that in the chat for you.
Thank you.
But it sounds so, Gary, you're telling me when you came. You know you came into nice talk. You weren't expecting to see.
Me playing doom in the terminal. Is that where you're saying.
No.
That is so cool.
She!
Yeah, that that that.
It ain't like the old days of the terminal.
Oh, gosh! Let's see
Well, people think of any other questions on topic.
And there's Robert! Hi, Robert!
Hey? How you been.
Good! Good! I got a question for Lee or anybody else who wants to jump in with knowledge of the project.
There's our Bach upgrade that we've been talking about for months.
And
We have enough volunteers.
Put me on a spot. I bought you dinner. No, no, no, I'm I'm just saying, you know, if there's.
There any great opportunities for.
Yet we're volunteers to grab a part of this project, and.
Jump in and learn about how to do a great upgrade on.
Of the software.
Well, we got some pretty.
Thorny problems been floating around Sysame for a while. If anybody would like to.
Take a look at them. Just scan the system as our archives for the last couple months.
We've had issues with the clone.
Running properly, being it was trying to share. You know, we got that fixed.
There's all kinds, you know.
It's almost to the point that.
It'd be nice if we had somebody with a fresh set of eyes that would just jump in.
Start parsing all the discussions.
And I think Mike's got it started. But.
We kind of need a guide to the problems and potential solutions. And then what has been done and what needs to be done?
A lot of times just getting.
A new set of eyes to look at the problem.
Is a great way to to.
Find where where a snag is done, so.
By the way, I should have mentioned this at the beginning. Introduction.
So for for.
For those of you who are not regulars to
To this meeting or to our group.
The St. Louis log is part of.
Slug, St. Louis, Linux, user group.
So we run about 5 meetings a month.
And
To be a member of this group. It's real easy if you show up for.
Of any 2 of our meetings in a calendar year.
You're a voting member. There are no dues so.
We're happy to have you.
And
We always appreciate anybody's thoughts and contributions, which is what we're just saying. And even.
Doing this upgrade of one of our servers.
Yeah, just having somebody else take a look sometimes.
A big help. So.
We do run a couple of servers thankfully.
Lease, company.
Yeah. Omni tech is been contributing some virtual machines and keeping us going.
And so we really appreciate that.
And.
So we have a team right now. We've been working under the operating system upgrade.
On another point I can.
Twist your brain off tonight's topic and onto a different topic.
Of.
The the website.
Your grant either. Do you have anything to.
To say about the status of the website project.
nothing really changed this month. I mean, it's it's still coming along. I've been updating it every.
Time there's a meeting, so it's fully up to date, and all that.
But not, you know.
The the last thing that I proposed, I think, was like a short term solution where we.
Redirect some traffic from using a Apache redirect.
To the new site running on netify.
And we could do it in such a way. Where.
Traffic to the Root Directory would go to the new site.
But traffic to sub.
Pages would go to, would still work.
So, for example, like the Presentation Archive.
Is on the old site. Still, I'm not gonna port that to the new site.
For a lot of that stuff.
And so the new site just links to the old site.
And so what I proposed I don't know 3 or 4 months ago was a short term solution where we could just.
You know, basically do a redirect from the old site to the new site.
But still leave the links like that that I just described. Like with the presentation archive working.
People aren't too fond of that idea, but I I don't know might be worth 3 or 4 months of.
No action on the long term solution, but
You know, I don't know. I'm just updating the site when I update the meetup and.
It's just along.
Last meeting. I believe you said something about needing somebody to do a shell script of some kind.
Was, is that what you're talking about.
Yeah, well, I to me, that's just like a nice to have. But basically what that would do. So the website.
Is configured.
To reach out to Bach, which is our server.
And try to pull a Json file.
And the Json file.
Describes for each meeting.
What the
The materials are so like the video file, the audio file, the slides.
You know those kind of files that are stored on Bach.
If somebody would.
Write a script to create the Json file.
For each meeting that lists.
The files and puts it in the right Json format. Then the new site would display.
All those files on each meetings, page.
But to me, that's just a nice to have, because.
You know all that stuff is listed on the Presentation Archive which is linked to from the new site. So even if we don't get that working.
You can still get to the presentation archive with like 2 clicks.
Send me an email.
Toronto. See if I can hack something together with Python.
Okay, can you? Dm, me, your email address.
On zoom here.
I put it in the chat in some way, but I don't. I'm not on a lot of the email list, so I don't have ears. I don't think.
Okay.
We can get that done. Yes.
There!
Let's see
Other points, issues, topics.
Things that people have found in.
My body has fixed anything this week.
Oh, I fixed a lot of things. I just figured you're all tired of listening to me.
I do have a question about prox.
Yeah.
Anybody fought with that before.
Question about what.
Proxmox.
Oh, proxmud!
I got a diet pie image that.
Once in a great while we'll just freeze.
And then unfreeze.
It's got a lot of memory, and it's got.
2 cores, 2 threads assigned to it.
I'm new to prox. I was just wondering if there's something I.
Need to worry about when allocating resources.
Servers got like 56 threads assigned to it.
Are available.
Through the processor. So.
That doesn't seem unwieldy.
I'm just gonna try moving it to the.
Other server I have in my cluster, but.
I figured I'd ask you guys first.st
No idea here.
But doesn't prox. Just use Kvm. Under the covers. I'm pretty sure it does. So.
Thanks. I think so.
Yeah. So maybe that would be a way to troubleshoot is to try to.
Can you run it on regular Kvm, and then maybe that would be closer to.
Alright!
The metal, so to speak, and you'd get better error messages that would help you. Troubleshoot. I'm wondering.
And then once you got it working, we're gonna run on Kvm, then port it over.
Oh, that's the.
That's the dumb thing it works.
It's just I'll be plugging along, using the what's installed on it, and it comes along, and then it will just freeze.
How many,
Man, and by the time I get to the console it's on us.
I'm like what gifts.
Memory you've got.
System, memory like 128 gig.
I've assigned 20 to this.
I don't think that's enough. I think you might need to double that.
What kind of load are you running on there.
Right now I'm trying to run a satisfactory game server.
Okay, so. But what I'm saying is, there's no gui involved.
Nope, there's a web page for.
The
Yeah. Well, it's not. It's not any.
Any window manager.
Now.
Well, I mean, I've got a bunch of pies in the back room with 4 cpus and a gigam memory piece, and.
They loaf long at a hundred, at a hundred processes.
Right. And I just like.
I was wondering if there's something I'm.
Doing wrong with the scheduler, or whatever you want to call it, that breaks up the.
The cpus into.
Into the virtual machines.
Since I have a.
Our Kubernetes cluster built up onto it and.
Virtual Machine Windows Virtual Machine Running.
Also on that host name.
Hmm.
Oh, no! So it's an old devil. 7, 30 that I.
Obscured with when.
The company had to retire. The data center.
Shoved a graphics card in there, machinations to.
Break it up, and thought my nieces and nephews use it to play video games.
Hmm.
Off their raspberry pi 4, so that.
I don't have to worry about them.
Soda, or something into a.
Gpu.
That, or you know.
Rage, quitting and throwing it out. The window.
Harry had a question about.
Altering a live distro, and then building it a new distro from it.
And wasn't there some setup with the.
Open, Sousa, where you could do that.
Yeah, they're obs open build servers.
You know you. You can use them to build any sort of iso.
That you want.
Seem to me also that you could.
Years ago Robert did a demo where you could mount a an iso loop back, go in and modify it, and then save that as a new iso.
And burn it to a DVD.
Yeah, if it's an image, I think I think I've seen that done.
Yeah.
So you can't do it if you're.
You'd have to pull it off the DVD. Modify it and then burn it to a new one.
But it seemed, I believe, like you said, that they.
Susan thing.
Way more structured, I guess.
Yeah, there, there's a lot of things she does that I don't even play with that are just, you know, really fascinating.
Me!
Hmm.
And have you heard any more about open Sousa changing their name.
At request of Sousa.
They're not changing any names
You've still got tumbleweed and leap, but there's also now a slow roll.
And micro, which is the immutable.
Root file system.
It's not. It's not the mainstream. It's a specialized.
Version for things like Kubernetes, clusters, and stuff like that.
Right.
Docker images.
I had heard somewhere that the open people had asked for the sous.
People had asked Oh! And Susan to change their name.
Hadn't hadn't heard anything about that.
Okay.
Yeah, I saw that, too. Isn't that bizarre.
Yes.
I I just don't understand that at all.
I I don't get it.
And that maybe it's some red hat plants.
Could be.
The lively group lot of dead air.
Yeah.
Well, I watched that talk so. They had a long, pretty much a waste of my time, but they had, like a 30 or 45 min talk of one of the last conferences.
About this naming thing, about how open suit, or about how the company.
Has asked open Seuse.
To change their name. Ostensibly it's because, like.
You know Sue's getting support requests for open and stuff like this. I don't. I don't know.
Seems weird. And the answer was.
To just.
Ha! Not have any sort of cohesive naming.
Like. For example, I think one of their new things is called like Aon Oron, or I don't know.
And then they have another weird name for another one of their things, and like.
I guess the answer is to just like drop the open name and just start using these weird names like that aren't really connected to each other in any way. It seems.
Big lizard.
If, if.
Hey!
Ever hits mainstream. It's gonna die. I predict.
Because sushi opened sushi has been around for 30 years.
And to try to throw grenade in it. Now.
Would just confuse people more.
And I'm sorry, but people are too stupid to know the difference between open sushi and sushi.
Then they deserve to get their hands, and the sushi project should not.
Do anything to mitigate that.
You know what's what's the old saying? You can't fix stupid.
Hmm.
I agree. Lee.
Okay. Yeah.
You know, it's like you're gonna have 73 genders. And I'm supposed.
I could care less.
And
Yeah, I mean.
Like you say, Seuses. I don't use it very much, but has been around for a long time.
And it's pretty big worldwide, as far as I understand.
And so why do you want.
Who exactly requested them to change their name.
Can you jump?
Well, corporate, hired corporate hired somebody's nephew is what happened.
Wait a minute. Say that again.
The corporate people hired somebody's nephew that doesn't know how to spell Sousa or open Sousa.
That could be I mean.
You could Google it.
I'm sure that would show up.
Wouldn't itly.
Well.
It's actually looked like it was from July.
A bunch of people have been jumping on the bandwagon.
How you spell Sousal Lee. I can't remember.
SUS.
What's the last one.
E.
Okay.
What doesn't make any sense to me is like I thought the whole point was like.
You know, to have like, you know, people, you know, and that's the whole point. Was like people at home will use opense.
And then they'll somehow take that to work right like. Isn't that the whole thing like? Oh, we give them.
You know we put the free tier for the.
So that way they'll get used thing, and I'll take it to work. But they're like doing the opposite. They're like, no, you go away with your free thing!
And go over here and call yourself something different.
And they're like, I just don't get it. I think it's bizarre.
Yes, it's an Ibm thing.
The guide is here suggested. He got an Mba.
Well, th! This is the thing, too, who owns now like hasn't hasn't like the company.
Like changed ownership, like 4 or 5 times in the last, you know, 4 or 5 years.
No, it's been long before that.
You know it. It was originally Novell Bottom, and then Novell got bought out, and then it was spun off as its own company.
It's a public company.
Yeah, but there's been a lot since then, I know that's not. That's not it. They were. They were. They were bought by a holding company for a while.
And then they sold them. There's been a lot of a lot of.
Acquisition, stuff and seus. Recent History.
I'm sorry I asked the question.
Well, this 8, 45, I.
Yes, we ought to just go ahead and.
And the meeting.
I suppose so, unless somebody has.
Some question or topic they'd like us to jump into here, but.
I think we've probably covered a goodly stuff.
Goodly bit tonight.
Really appreciate. Shawn all the work you did, putting together the presentation.
As I say to.
Amazing to think that wow! Hey, this.
New stuff in terminal emulators, that.
I should be picking up on.
So.
I found it way more interesting than I thought it would be.
Yeah.
Thank you. Shawn.
More like this, I think, as I switch from windows to Linux, there's a lot of decisions that I'm gonna have to make like this like to use this thing or this thing, and so.
If I find any more interesting.
Choices with showdowns. Any more interesting showdowns. I'll
Great.
One thing to consider. If you're just getting. If you're getting into this.
Do some more talks. Maybe.
Just go with the traditional.
Terminal emulators.
And bash.
If you ask a question on the web.
You'll just be inundated with answers.
Most of them pretty good quality.
And you know I've I've come to respect that a lot.
You know I don't wanna.
I don't want to use something where I.
You know, type a question into Google or duck or something, and.
You know, I get one response. That's terrible.
You know, that's 1 of the things I like about Dash is, you know, just so many people working with it out there.
You know it's hard to ask a question. If somebody hasn't asked 10 times already.
You know.
Not only that, but the you know bash hasn't changed significantly in decades. Right? So if you find an answer from 20 years ago.
You're exactly right.
It's probably still perfectly valid, right? And you pay that very much technology. And the Linux Cli is basically the only thing.
Where answers are good. Ha! You know, have that long of a shelf life.
Yeah, I've got a book that I got back in.
The late 80 s.
When I was working at I was working for a consulting company, and I was stationed at Mcdonalds.
And Mac, auto and.
One of the guys there said, you need to learn this stuff.
And he said, Here, get yourself this book.
And I got it on the shelf here. I can't remember the title of it.
But you know a part of the book was a bash.
You know like.
You know you just the alphabetically. The commands are in there, and you look at it, says, Oh, this Ls, does this, you know.
And then it had. The other section of the book was how you use it, and.
I've given that book to several people recently. It's still all valid.
And that was from I got that book in 1,900.
Probably 88, or 89.
And you know that still works.
Which is something that I like.
You know.
And that's what I'm thinking about doing next like. So now that I know was terminal, I want to use shell. I'm going to use right dash versus.
Fish versus h.
Well, the other thing is, I would recommend using bash.
Because.
The Leo used to give me a hard time about emacs. Same exact argument.
You go anywhere on a Linux system, and bash will be there, and it'll work the same.
Oh, I'm sure there are different stories that have.
Some do this better, some do that better, you know it's like a distro, but.
Vast majority of this stuff is exactly the same.
So you don't have to go learning at 3, 4 different times and try to keep it straight.
Excuse me.
I just to me? That's important.
One I hate.
Yeah. Ubiquitous, right?
For the sake of changing it.
I don't.
Sean, what's which distro you're using.
Me!
Which issues Sean.
Nick, you guys see my favorite month image.
What's that?
You didn't see my distro flavor of the month image earlier.
Oh, it's yeah, but I forgot.
Next OS.
Next. Okay, that's what I thought.
Yeah, I use a.
So so you've you've tried other ones, and you've settled on that or.
You just always wanted to use that or.
I've had my eye on Xos for like 2 years now, and I finally just decided to.
Take the plunge and try it.
Before that. I was using a bunch, too, but it was on a dual boot.
And I think we had one presentation on Nick's right.
It was yeah, back in like 2019 or something, I think, or.
There's been a few years at least.
Yeah.
Hey? I've got a question.
Totally different. Subject.
Sometime within the last couple of years.
Somebody did a presentation on a small handheld Gizmo.
That could emulate.
You know, TV remotes door remote.
Damn near anything.
Floor, 0.
I'm sorry.
Flipper 0! I have one.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was it.
Slipper, 0.
Oh, for those who want.
Gain.
Steam's got this original 64, and 5 12 gig models marked down this weekend next.
You're breaking up. Tyler.
At least I to me, anyway.
The steam deck at Linux, gaming.
Pci was talking about a year ago.
Okay.
The original.
64, GB and the.
200 or 512.
Gigabyte models are on sale this week.
If you do, gave me.
Where you get flipper.
Flipper 0. I think you just.
Buy it from.
You. You can buy them on Amazon.
If you want to buy them.
What do you know?
Have a website called Flipper, one.
So $169.
Shit.
Dev. Board, 46 bucks.
Raspberry, pi 0.
For flipper, 0 35 30 bucks.
Dave.
Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff on Amazon.
Most expensive thing I've seen is $45.
Silicon case or flipper. 0 for 12 bucks.
You know that, Hob, that hobbyist.
Pretty big.
Yeah, they're good.
One of the things I want to do is I want to.
Emulate.
Just the immediate project is emulate, a garage door, remote.
Have managed to lose the original ones, and I've got some that I got from Amazon.
They're okay. But.
I haven't been able to activate all the features.
Like. What? Don't you just open and close the door.
Oh!
Yeah, it'll the Amazon opens and closes the door. But I'd also like to be able to turn on the lightning garage or turn it off.
As a separate function.
The original remotes that came with it did that.
Boy, there's a lot of stuff here.
Yeah.
Does it have? Contact leads for a button on the wall.
Yeah, it does.
It's got a wall. Gizzi.
Maybe I should just take that off the wall and disassemble it and see what's there's, you know there's far as I know there's no Wi-fi in that box.
Bluetooth, or anything.
No real like.
My thought is, if you get a.
Relay board. Using the raspberry you can use. Esp home to.
Control those.
Relays, and now you have.
Control over it, on.
Your Wi-fi. Usually I tell them.
That matches up with things like Home Assistant.
Huh!
But Esp. Home is kind of.
Interesting. I'm actually working on a board right now to
Watch water pressure before and after our filter.
Yeah.
I wanna see I'm not. Let's let him go. I wanna see him use a flipper 0 as a garage door opener, because it's basically like.
Using a chainsaw to open a cardboard box. Okay? And I I gotta see this. So.
Oh, that's so. You're saying that we need to have the phone.
Of him banging his head against that. Okay.
So we give them any alternatives.
You yeah, using this little device that.
Number 0 is a garage door, remote.
Yeah, this device it can simulate. You know, you can steal path cards. Can you know? Hack Wi-fi devices? Get, you know all those things, and he's gonna use this garage door opener. That's hilarious.
You're like.
Is like having like a Oh, yeah, it's like opening a cardboard box on the chainsaw. It'd be it'd be great.
Video, game, module.
Yeah, this. There's a forum out there.
Forum flipper.net.
I think they could use some more server power.
Watch it.
Well, they're they're right on a pi 0.
Do they.
You don't need hard.
It's all just, I hope.
No, I mean the the website, not the actual machine itself.
Who's ever hosting their website.
Oh, well, it doesn't matter.
By now. Good night off.
Take care!
Alright, guys, alrighty! Ready for booking. We're gonna book in this and close the recording. So.
With all homage to.
Darth! Vader's voice.
Or Cnn's voice. This is St. Louis, LUG.
This has been Thursday, September the.
19, th 2024. Our speaker tonight was Sean Tweedhouse.
He did a wonderful presentation on modern terminals.
Kitty.
Versus wester.
So we really appreciated it.
And been a very interesting talk tonight. It'll be in the Archive very soon.
With that. Thank you all for coming and see you next time. Oh, our next meeting.
Next Tuesday,
It is the new users. Log.
Tuesday night. Good night.
Right.