Got it.
This meeting is being recorded.
Yeah.
anonymous caller, and two. All right. Okay, this is the bookend. This is Slug, the… Monthly general meeting of the St. Louis Linux Unix users group. Uh, we also have our, uh.
Annual meeting tonight, which is just a small coincidental thing. But first, we have The Life of a DNS request. It's our basic tutorial tonight.
It's being done by Grant Taylor, along with his volunteers.
And then we'll pause for… this is our Oreo cookie version. We do our announcements.
And, uh, other things in the middle of the meeting.
And then we go to our main topic, which is, what is DNS? Distributed, uh.
naming system. Uh, so, uh… Uh, we'll do that after our GUI middle.
With that, I'm going to turn it over to Grant Taylor, who is going to take us through the life of a DNS request.
Oh, and today's date is Wednesday the 11th of February, 2026.
All right, uh, Phil, I'm actually getting ready to…
Grant, all yours.
show the… or share, and then I think we will be…
Ready, so…
take… start us off still.
Yeah, okay, great. Do you happen to know what the IP address is that world-famous.
URL, www. S-O-U-U-G dot org?
I don't know what it is, I guess I should find out.
Hey, Stan, what's the 8 IP address of www.slug.org?
Uh, I don't know, but I know who does.
Grant, you should ask Gary what the IP address of WWE.
Gary! Buddy old pal!
That's loop.org is.
What's the IP address of www.slub.org?
You're muted.
I'm up.
Dropped a few packets there.
I'm gonna make a… 206.197.251.210.
Well,
Gary, what's the IP address of www.sleuth.org?
Query timeout.
Or did he actually drop off?
I think, uh, yeah, I think ours. Our DNS server's down.
Alright, um…
I will try to say in another voice.
Uh, Grant, you should ask Lee what the address is of www.slug.org.
Hey, Lee, what's the address of Slug.org?
Grant, the IP address of www.sloop.org is 206197-251210.
Hey, Phil! Sorry it took so long, but the answer for the IP address for slug.org
is 206-197-251?
210.
Hope you like the webpage.
Ah.
That's how it works, even with the error corrections, right?
Yes, it is. That actually was more realistic than I had originally intended.
But, uh, yes, that is exactly how…
recursive DNS. When you ask your ISP's DNS server,
to resolve something, I played the part of that.
It goes and figures things out and talks to a bunch of people, and returns the answer to you.
So, that is to kick off a new series talking about DNS that we're going to be
working on, but more on that later. I think there's something…
Goon…
So my inter… so my interjection actually made it more realistic.
Uh, yours was, um…
additional data that was not requested that I ignored.
Okay.
Yes, it is.
And that's how things work, right?
Oh, you're fine, but the idea was to just real-world demonstration.
Okay, well, I'm gonna go ahead and mute my microphone then.
It…
Are you still talking?
Well, that way you can technically ignore me, not…
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm gonna stop sharing.
Yep. Alright, Gary, back to you.
You're just following protocol.
Yes, sir. And I'm back.
GUI middle.
Yeah.
Oh, that's it, huh? Okay. Here we are in the gooey middle. Okay, the gooey middle of the meeting, uh, announcements, uh, next.
Thursday, uh, we have a presentation on Boot C, uh, Atomic Linux from Canisters.
Uh, that's going to be done by, uh, Red Hat Senior Engineer.
And, uh, so, tell all of your Red Hat friends that, uh, they might want to come.
to next Thursday's meeting. That's the, uh, St. Louis Lug meeting.
Um, let's see, next month, uh, for this meeting, the general meeting, uh, for the main topic.
You're not gonna follow any of the slides at all? What the… Jesus.
Welcome. It says, welcome.
Yeah, okay. You know, you were going off on all kinds of tangents, just, you know.
Alright, alright.
We got a bunch of them, just quickly, you know, about us. Who the heck are we?
Okay. Ah, well, about us. We… this is the St. Louis Unix users group. Uh, we're a 501c3 corporation.
And, uh, you just happened to be here the night where you got a, uh.
Okay.
Uh, annual meeting. Our mission is to educate and inform, and uh… tell people all about the wonderful world of open standards.
Um, guidance to our webpage. Uh, we do have a presentation archive on our webpage, so we try and record our meetings, and you can find them out there. There's also our calendar.
How does a… how does the meeting go?
our mailing list and sponsored meetings. So, um… The meetings, uh, started… the system comes up usually at 6 p.m.
Uh, the start of the meeting is at 6.30, with the base tutorial topic. 7 o'clock, we usually do the GUI middle. Obviously, we're running a little quick tonight.
And then, uh, the main talk usually starts about 7.15.
Uh, so, uh, that's how the meetings usually go. Next!
trying buttons, buttons. Who's talking?
Hey, I'm Gary Meyer, I'm the president of this group. The other voice you've been hearing is our Vice President, Stan Reichert, who is the amazing.
production person who somehow. manages to get this all pulled off.
it's like… it's like chasing cats, it really is.
Uh…
Now, our trip… Our treasurer is Lee Lambert, and he also, uh, he's the principal at, uh.
Uh, principal scientist at Omnitech Corporation. And, uh, Omnitech is also the provider of most of our hardware and computer presence online, so a big thanks to.
Lee and his company. Secretary, we have a vacancy for the position of secretary, so anybody who likes to put their fingers to the keys and.
help kind of keep track of things. We'd love for somebody to volunteer and say, yeah, I'd like to be secretary, because.
Stan has been doing double duty as that most of the time, so… Chat Monitor, this is a one-time thing, just for tonight. There's obviously chat.
Uh, in, uh… See? In Zoom.
Zoom.
Um, and, uh, so yeah, just somebody to watch the chat, and if you see somebody.
make a comment or a question in chat that should be brought to the speaker's attention.
Uh, we're looking for a volunteer, so if somebody say, I want to do that.
Or just do it, or just do it whenever it needs to be done.
Okay, I'm not hearing anybody. Okay. Topic Wrangler. Uh, we always need people to help find other speakers, other topics to talk about. Part of that is just to find a topic that would interest everybody.
And, uh, part of it is finding someone who can speak about it. So, uh, you don't have to come to meetings, you don't have to do a lot of other stuff.
But, uh, any help anybody can provide finding speakers and topics, we'd love it.
And speakers, yeah, anybody who'd like to speak about some topic, open standards, we want to hear from you, so, uh, contact me, or Stan.
Marlee, and let us know. Thank you.
And we just did the basic topic. And now we're gonna go to the GUI middle.
And this is what… normally what the gooey middle is, okay, now we're… Back here at the GUI middle, okay, what are we gonna do now?
No. Ark.
This month, the green middle is going to be just a little bit extra, because, as I said, this is our annual meeting, and so we're going to stick an annual meeting in here.
Is that…?
Um, oh, and I didn't finish the announcements, I guess. Uh, the announcements, I talked about what's going next Thursday, it's the Red Hat.
Uh, senior engineer talking about, uh, Boot C. And then, uh, let's see what else we have here.
So does that mean…
Okay, the next SLUG general meeting next month on the second Wednesday, that's going to be Scott Graneman, and he's going to continue in his presentations of the history of computing, and he's going to the next decade from his last talk.
So, uh, check the calendar or the webpage, and we'll have.
what the exact years of that are. 8 days from now, next week, on Thursday, I already mentioned the LUG meeting, that's the Red Hat engineer who's going to be speaking but Bootsy.
Five days after that, the new Linux meeting. Uh, after that is the next Slack meeting, usually the.
First Thursday of the month. Uh… let's see… Microsoft Windows End of life, we've been beating on that since October.
Uh, slug annual meeting. Hey! Besides the annual meeting, we've got balloting that has to be done. People have to vote.
And, uh, in March of 20… March 20th, uh, is Project Hail Mary.
Uh, link to the official trailer, yeah, if you want to follow up on that.
And then, uh, the deadline for the Missouri Radiation Exposure Act.
So, uh, if you've got any relatives or yourself who may have.
come down with cancer as a result of the radiation that's.
been around here in St. Louis and St. Charles County, city of St. Louis.
Um, by all means, check this out. And, uh, there's some compensation. Unfortunately, it's monetary compensation, but uh… I wish we could provide medical compensation as well, but they do what they can.
Well, they will provide 50… if you're currently alive and have come down with one of these cancers, you can get $50,000.
Okay. Let's.
Or, above $50,000 with your out-of-pocket expenses. Yeah, well. And the reason we're covering this is because it's not really well.
well covered throughout the, uh… Um, the area. A lot of people just don't know about it.
And I forgot where all the buttons are. Where'd they go?
Yeah.
They're different every week when you turn on Zoom.
Oh, hello. Yeah, every week they're different. Every dang one of them.
Yep. Moving targets.
Oh, jeez.
Yup.
Let me try that one. Well… Where was I?
So, while Stan is working on that, since we have the annual meeting,
Does that mean this is a double stuff?
Meeting?
Yes, yes, you're correct. I hadn't thought of that. Very good, very, very good.
I got her… I gotta write that one down.
Uh-huh. Oh, my. Hey, uh, so let me jump in and cover a couple things from the annual meeting. We usually make a joke of this just to see if we can do it in under a certain number of seconds.
But again, I want to emphasize, uh, you know, this group basically runs on volunteer efforts, so definitely, if anybody, uh.
Uh, can just spend a little time. It would really help to get a few more people.
Uh, trying to keep track of the recordings, uh, put the recordings in the archive.
Uh, maybe find some speakers. Uh, so please, please consider volunteering for some of these roles, and uh… helping out. It really, really would be appreciated.
And I want to give a big thanks. to, uh, all the people who have been doing that. Obviously, Grant's our speaker tonight.
Uh, there's a number of people who show up at our assuring committee meetings, and uh… Uh, contribute, and we appreciate everybody's efforts. Thank you all.
These detailed slides are available from our main page.
So…
And, uh… Any other announcements that anybody might have?
I've got 2 more. Okay, bye by Windows 10.
Go ahead, Stan.
is a book written by Stephen Whiteman. He's at the.
Atlanta Linux enthusiast Group, and it's a PDA… he's made it available as a free PDF.
Uh, and you can buy the paperback from Amazon, or you can get the Kindle version.
$2.99, or if you're a Kindle Unlimited, you can get it for free.
Um, and even in the… if you go into Amazon and look for the title, Bye Buy Windows 10, it'll pop up, and in the first.
a couple 10 pages that are samples, you can actually see these PDF links, or you can go.
and pull down this… this slideshow and… and have these, or whatever.
Okay? Uh, beyond that, uh, Europe has did a thing called endof10.org.
And I've been posting information on the new Linux Beginner Workshop and the.
The, uh, Slack, um… Configuration workshops also on that website.
Um, beyond that. we need to worry about, you know, if you're worried about privacy and security.
Only this meeting, the general SLUG meeting, and the St. Louis Linux meeting are recorded.
and post it on our archives, because they have presentations. The other two meetings.
Our free format, and even though I recorded. I don't post those meetings.
But, however, Big Brother is watching, anybody can be recording in the meeting, and I even did a presentation. You can find in the archives, October 22, about how to use Simple Screen Recorder.
There's a PDF there, and the whole video, the first base portion is 52 minutes.
And there's also a link on the slide that talks from this guy in, um… I think he's a wrench… I think he's Russian, I think he lives in France.
Uh, but he speaks really excellent English, as I understand.
And his website has a lot of interesting things.
Um, like I said, our archives, this is where we post the stuff in a couple of days, it goes up there only.
The SLOOG meeting and the Linux users group meeting.
Gary?
Yeah, let's see, um… There was something else I was gonna mention there.
Read the screen, Gary.
Okay, the calendar. Uh, the calendar provides a graphical.
view of all of our events. Uh, we try and cover St. Louis events, but also out-of-town events, so you can choose on the calendar the ones that are actually run by us are highlighted in red.
And here comes the calendar now.
Yeah, Google is not happy.
what's new about that?
Yeah, let's try this, but there's an alternative. You click this little line here that.
Well, Google's still not there. Doesn't look quite the same.
The other presentation is… our stuff is highlighted in red, but I'm gonna go ahead and.
Just go away from that, so… Just something to know.
Gary.
Okay. mailing lists of, uh, we run at least 4 mailing lists.
announce, which is very limited traffic, usually only one.
Okay.
every week or so, uh, and basically, it's usually an announcement about meetings or something important that's coming up that.
people should know. Discuss, and it's a moderated list, so not everybody can pose to it.
Uh, discuss, on the other hand, is an open list, so anybody can post to it. You can put a question out there, or just comment on what you've been doing.
Sometimes you get. 20 answers in an hour. Sometimes you get.
an answer in two weeks, so it depends on how interesting what you put out there is, and who.
response to it. Steering committee. If you like sausage being made, that's what we do at the steering committee. So, uh, you know, we talk about.
Who might be a speaker, how we can get them to talk, where they are, etc. Sysadmin is basically, uh, us being our own system administrators and keeping.
the slug computers running, so, uh, we try and limit the.
mailing list to just the people who are doing that work so we don't accidentally betray a password or something like that, but uh… But yeah, it also helps if anybody wants to volunteer to be a sysadmin for our group.
We'd love to have you. Next.
And general sysadmin questions can be asked on the discuss list. You don't have to be on the sysadmin list to ask sysadmin questions.
Yeah, the sysadmin is…
Right, right.
us doing the work to keep our systems up and running.
Yep, yep. Uh, groups that, uh, besides this general monthly meeting, uh, there's the St. Louis Linux.
Uh, user group, uh… Obviously, that… concentrates primarily on Linux topics. Uh, there's the new Linux user group, which is really oriented for.
people who are more beginners, um, the standard rule there is whoever considers themselves to be the newest person gets to ask the first question and keep asking that question until it gets an answer.
But I want to make sure that everybody who's an old graybeard, like me, comes because.
Uh, it's amazing, you. think you may know something about whatever topic it is, and sure enough, you'll find some other person who.
comes up with an answer that you didn't know. And, uh, so you can still learn something at the New Linux group, and hopefully, if you've got experience.
You can help provide some answers. Slack, the St. Louis Area Computer Club.
a little more hardware-oriented. We'll talk about Microsoft questions, hardware questions, things like that.
Next. Call for help, um, before we go. Um, if there's any quick questions.
that somebody wants to ask, there'll also be a chance for asking questions after our main presentation, but.
We'll open up for some quick, easy questions now, just to… get people while we still have a crowd in front of us here.
Anybody have a question they want to ask the group?
Going once… Going.
Going twice.
I just wanted… this is Steve Litt, I just want to make absolutely sure that you all can hear me.
Yes, sir. We hear you very well. You got a good microphone.
Yes. We… Yes. Yes.
Okay, thank you.
And… before we go to the… well, before we go to the main topic.
Okay.
Did we do a annual meeting or not?
No, we have to talk about elections. Um, so, uh, yeah, normally I do this quickie, uh, try and get the meeting done in 20 seconds, but I'm just gonna skip that this time.
important thing is there's annual elections. This group is actually run by a five-member board of directors.
Two of those seats are up for election at this time.
And, uh, Stan, those two current incumbents would be…
Uh, Grant Taylor and Lee Lambert and Grant is filling the final one year of a.
3-year term. Um… And if you go to the.
main web page, or actually, the web page on any of our.
website. You can find the PDF there for the instructions for the manual.
Or, I mean, excuse the instructions for voting. Um, where'd it go? Where'd it go?
Okay, and for example, on this page right here, talking about our annual meeting, if you.
If you, uh… Is that the new one?
Yep, that's annual meeting and elections, you got it.
I can't see it because… Zoom… yeah, Zoom is covering up the absentee ballot right there. There's the ballot.
It's got all the instructions there. If you read this.
Yeah, if you send it by… U.S. Postal Service with an envelope and a stamp on envelope, and it gets to the.
to our, uh… Uh, mailbox before 2nd of March, when we actually do the counting, it'll be treated as a secret ballot.
Or you can just, uh, email the doggone thing, and whichever.
But all the instructions are there. And this is… this is how they… you have… You have 2 votes, and.
Strangely enough, according to our. Bylaws, you can vote for one person with two votes, or you can.
Spread your two votes between the two. Uh, positions.
Okay.
Okay? And the, uh… President, Vice President, Secretary-treasurer positions are.
Uh, are appointed by the. the board, so these are actually advisory boat of ballots, and also the chair for the St. Louis Linux Users Group.
There's this spot there. The incumbents are listed. Um, I'm the incumbent vice president, I choose to be vice president because I don't want to be president.
And Stan also is the person most in charge of the election, and so if you don't want your name to wind up being the winner in any of these slots.
Sam will gratefully accept any collection gratuity to make the vote come out without your name at the top of the list.
Yeah. We operate on the Russian rules. He who counts the votes.
So…
It's not who receives the votes, it's who counts the votes.
And the answer to who is eligible to vote, if you have attended.
two of our meetings in the previous calendar year, you're a voting member. Congratulations! You didn't know that, did you?
Uh, so, yeah, if you… if you were at any two meetings in the last year, the general meeting, the new LUG meeting, the Slack meeting.
Let's hold… let's hold… can we hold an annual meeting?
any of those. So, uh, welcome.
Okay, uh… will open… officially open the annual meeting at 6.55.
click, click, click. Okay, do I hear a motion?
Motion to adjourn.
Is there a second? All in favor signify by your assigned to the opponents know of the eyes have got it.
I second.
655, we've adjourned. I don't have a second counter.
There's no old business or new business or anything like that?
Uh, there was a motion on the floor, we voted on it.
What?
Cool.
The, uh, old and new business is usually discussed during STEERCOM.
So, I do have a question, or maybe we can answer it?
Yeah.
And…
And… and. And if…
Now, I am going to put forth a question, and uh… like, yeah, we do do that for joke, uh, just the fast version.
But the, uh… I actually have two variations of questions. First off.
Anybody want to throw out an idea of topics they'd like to hear, things they'd like to hear talked about in future meetings?
You're not necessarily volunteering to speak on it, but just what you'd like to hear us do.
DNS.
There we go. Yeah.
Going once? In… Oh, something about DNS, okay.
Uh, I'm curious to know what, uh…
Okay.
Steve Litt was suggesting about HTML or XML.
So…
Okay. So we'll be… we'll be grateful.
Okay. And it… And it could be put… it can put something in the chat, or… be posted on our discussed list.
Um, that'd be a good way to get stuff brought up.
primarily because if there's a lot of interest, it usually winds up as a topic somehow or another.
Okay.
Yeah.
If we can track somebody… Uh, down and have everybody else in the room take two steps backwards, you know, that's how it works.
And we were making a joke of, of… cramming this into a 30-second meeting. But the original reason.
for the lawyer putting this into the, uh, corporate bylaws of having an annual meeting.
is because a lot of organizations and a lot of the previous Linux user groups.
Uh, you know, they suddenly just don't have officers anymore. They all.
disappeared, got a job in a different city, and all of a sudden, no one's running a group, and there's a bank account sitting there with, you know, $5 in it, and… everybody is gone, and nobody's calling the meeting anymore, so that's why.
there was a formal.
It… it provides a mental focus for us that are in the organization has been.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a cultural thing. So… and we're…
Well, that wasn't a com… that wasn't a complaint. I was just… I'd been reviewing Robert's Rules myself for another organization I belong to. I was just… it was kind of joking.
Yeah, and they… and they can really give you a hernia if you follow those to the T, I tell you.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, formerly we should vote to suspend the rules, but we don't even bother with that.
Hmm.
Okay.
Well, and I will toss out there that a lot of the details, like the account balance, expenses,
annual renewals and things, those…
we actually talk about those monthly
on the STIRCOM meeting.
what most people would think would be in an annual meeting, we are doing more frequently.
Yeah, yeah. Um, quick, since we have just general members out there, another question is.
What would you like to see different of this organization? I mean, we're holding.
for online meetings a month, uh, are we… doing the right type of meetings, too many, too few.
Matt… not… not counting steering committee meeting.
Not counting the steering committee meeting. Um, you know, would you rather see.
different number of meetings, timing of meetings, type of meetings.
Yeah, I could interject there. I would suggest. maybe combining a couple of them?
Because it would lighten your workload, but… Um, I really interrupted you to kind of rewind, because you were looking for potential topics.
Yeah.
And I wanted to throw something out there, it's kind of a, uh… combination of events, um… I retired, uh, almost 2 years ago.
And so, I thought, well. I have nothing to do, so I'm gonna get all my hobbies up and running.
Hmm.
And I have had a long-term interest in amateur radio, so.
I've been through that gamut, have taken all my tests, have all my licenses.
And, uh, there's… That turned very digital.
Uh, since I graduated from high school, which. Um, it was in 1974.
Um, anyway, but uh… So I had some stuff running on, uh… a Windows laptop that I got from EPC.
Uh, but then some of the recent events, I decided, well.
I'm going to eliminate Microsoft from my life altogether.
And so I did that. Um… And I kind of wanted to have a… saw a presentation from an amateur radio club.
We're talking about Linux and the Ham Shack, um… But I wanted to kind of embellish that a little bit, maybe share it with this group.
As well as the other group. Um…
I will talk out there that multiple of us on the meeting right now are licensed HAMS.
Not.
And, uh, I have an interest in Packet, but I'm not active right now.
I think there is…
below the surface of the water,
interest that, uh, if you came up with some ideas to talk about, uh, yeah, you'd probably get a bunch of people bite and tune in.
Okay, I will, uh… Don't put me on the schedule for, like, really soon, but uh… Yeah, I'd like to get… just, you know, as I learn what I want to accomplish there, be able to share that.
Because I'm seriously considering… One of the things I did was I took that, uh… laptop that I mentioned that I bought from EPC.
Um… Because originally, it was kind of easy to just use the Windows license that comes with their.
use laptops. But I've since blown it away and put Ubuntu something or other on it.
And have most of the stuff that I actually need for what I do.
But I'd also like to…
Um, consider doing that on just a Raspberry Pi.
Okay.
Because they're cheaper and… and uh… Anyway, that's kind of my thought.
And when we talk about doing a presentation, the presentation could be something as simple, like,
The base presentations of, hey,
Something last week that I thought was deep.
Thank you. Okay.
that I've been playing with?
And, uh, thought somebody else might like it too. Here's a 5-minute demonstration.
So, it does not have to be a…
Well thought out, we can…
slides or anything like that.
And it can be what I've learned so far kind of presentation, which… You know, could be just quite limited, and then say.
And then I'll be back in 2 or 3 months with more.
Yeah, which is kind of what I was thinking.
It'll work. We've had those before. And they are very interesting. As long as, in my opinion, as long as you start off with why I'm doing what I'm doing.
And that gives people a buy-in. And, uh, my pet peeve is, you gotta number your slides if you do slides.
Some people don't.
Mm, okay. Yeah, and uh… One thing I played with early on was, uh.
software-defined radio, which is actually really… uh… kind of cool.
I mean, you can listen to a lot of stuff for just a little USB dongle and a.
Rinky-dink antenna.
Yeah, and I mentioned slides. You don't have to do slides, you know, and sometimes 5 slides help because they… They focus the flow of what you're gonna say, you know, and then, you know, throw up pictures and things that, if you.
Or that skill, if not, whatever, doesn't matter. you know, it kind of… the progression, it… It doesn't have to be… we don't want a super… well, we don't always want a super sophisticated thing, because sometimes the very simple.
Uh, by the seat of your pants kind of things are much more interesting, because they get a lot of input from other people.
They promote participation. That's the big thing.
I'll, uh, toss something out there that has been on my to-do list, that if somebody did a presentation,
On it, I would probably follow suit within the next month.
And that is a way to use an inexpensive SDR, or software-defined radio,
to tune in, wwwvb.
and decode that,
and use it as a time source.
on a computer.
Golly, I have no idea what you're talking about.
And, uh…
Which… that makes it interesting.
Uh, Steve, if you're talking, I think you're on mute. I think it was Steve that was talking a moment ago.
I am, yeah, I was gonna say, that's actually a very interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Most SDRs only go down to about 20 megahertz.
Um, potential application. Um…
And at 60 kilohertz, so you'd have to have.
Um…
an offset oscillator to, uh… Get down there.
So there's WWV, wwwvb, and I thought there was a third one that was at a higher frequency.
Is there one that is in the range of…
SDR?
Um, that's a research. Question.
you know, WWV.
At least for me, it's a research question.
WWE does 5, 10, 15, and 20 megahertz.
So, it sounds like there's 3 people…
Yeah.
Yeah, I might look into that as well.
That would, uh, probably be a very interesting presentation of
You have a computer running Linux, be it a Raspberry Pi, or a notebook, or something else?
plug an SDR in,
do these things, and looky there, it's telling me the time.
We got 2.5, 10, 15, 20 megahertz, and 25 megahertz.
25s in the HF band, so it's, uh…
actually, uh, from 10 up, that would be in the HF band.
So, yeah, let's, uh… Now you made me curious. See what you did.
Uh, I think that's called like-minded individuals hanging out and chatting.
They have a chair application there is, uh, because I… Back when I had to work for a living.
Um, you know, there's the… Was it NT?
NTSP, or whatever, the Computer Network Time Protocol, NTP.
Yeah.
that most OSes have built into them. Certainly Linux distributions do.
But that was our illustrious IS group would block that port.
So that I would have to set the time on the, uh… Um… vCenter server.
you know, not… it wouldn't drift very much, but every month or so, I'd get in there and.
touch it up, and that would ripple down to all the VMs running on it.
And uh… But this is something that, uh, kind of by, you know, in case there is something, a legitimate reason to need to.
not use the NTP protocol… NTP stuff, you could, uh… suck it right out of the air, and… Do you accept that? Yeah.
I think it'd also be interesting to see
how the latency of software
decoding it and comparing the, uh…
or the predictable accuracy
of that versus NTP.
You know, I personally don't care how precise.
my time on my systems are, as long as my systems are synchronized with each other.
But different people have different objectives.
Yeah.
Someone posted in the chat about presenting on Lent learning.
HTML slash XML and lint. Learning Rust, uh, and it's S. I'm not sure which… person that was.
Um… Steven Litt posted it, and uh…
said, yeah, I'm very interested.
Oh, okay.
Yeah. Other conversations are welcome here.
Other participants?
Uh, yeah, Steve Litt and I already exchanged, uh, emails, and we'll be in touch and get something scheduled.
Wait, wait, wait a minute. Gary, you ready? Email?
Yes. Wow, how about that?
We get that recorded.
Hmm…
Well, that's being recorded. I have one final, maybe final, maybe, uh, question before we get back into business, or into presentation.
And that is, haven't asked this question to the group in a long time. So an annual meeting's a good time.
That is, what distro. Are you running? So, um… Uh… let me… I'll just start running through a list, and uh… if anybody wants to type it into the chat, or in the meantime.
If you know how to raise your hand, raise your hand if I… Uh, mention your distro.
Hmm…
Uh, how many people are on Red Hat?
Do you want work or personal, or both?
Uh, both.
Okay… 2.
Okay, uh, how many people are on Ubuntu?
Does Mint count, or separate?
Separate.
Okay…
Okay, if somebody else ring… read one out.
How many people have BSD uses? Other than Mack.
I put my hand…
No BSD users tonight, why? Oh, there we go. There you go. I see it, I see it now. Yep, bye.
There's two of them up there.
I had been, but not lately.
Okay. Alright, and uh… Macintosh.
Can I put my hand down?
Okay… Yep, you can put your hand down. Um… Sousa.
Okay, uh… Anybody want to throw anything else out there?
Gen 2.
Gen 2. Okay, where are those Gen 2 users?
busy merging hand to raise.
How about a Pop OS machine right now?
Popular, ooh. There we go, Debbie in.
It'll work.
How about Debian?
Yeah, I got… Debbie and I support, too.
3.
Lennox Mint.
Does Monday evening's meeting mean I support Lenox Mint?
Stan?
Uh, it… not necessarily, no.
Okay, um… Anybody want to throw any other… distros up there.
Not Linux distros, but I'll toss out there traditional Unixes.
Solaris AIX, HPUX.
SCO Unix.
Okay. Okay…
That last one might get me run out of town on a
Um, I can't see how to raise my hand.
Yeah.
Do you have a react button at the bottom? I think it's a heart shape. If you click that,
Oh.
Yeah.
You know, menu and raise hand is there for me.
Oh, it is, okay.
Um…
My first.
sort of you wanting to raise your hand to?
My first Linux was, uh, Slackware.
Hey!
Lauren.
That's where I cut my teeth in 98?
About the same time, yes.
Slack. QuickBook.
Okay.
kernel 2.0.
The floppies.
I vaguely remember something that…
I think I did a 1920, and then 2-2.
thought, man, this is progressing fast.
Your symptoms.
Yeah. Okay, let somebody else wants to put something in for, uh… a vote, uh, I think we'll move on to the main presentation.
Uh, considering knowing what the main presentation is, I'm gonna toss another one out there that some people are probably begrudgingly using.
That's Windows Subsystem for Linux.
Okay.
Okay…
It's that every day.
You say you do use it every day, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it is anonymous Coward's face mean it's running on WSL?
It has no idea what WSL is. Poor anonymous coward.
Oh, boy.
All right. Okay, um. With that, unless somebody wants to.
continue on with something here, or vote for another distro. Maybe we'll move to our main presentation.
Wow, that…
Do you want the comments as we go along?
You know…
Alright.
I could… I could throw in another distro, a peppermint.
Grant, or what questions?
I love peppermint.
It's a good flavor.
Okay.
It makes all my netbooks work.
Thanks for that tip.
Uh, there's also, uh, PopOS.
Okay. All right, uh…
Yeah, it's out of the System 76 people.
Pop-O-West.
Yeah, that's the kind of laptop I'm on right now.
Okay.
Hmm, okay.
Cosmic.
Okay, anything else?
All right.
Yes, it does. Yes, it does.
Okay. In that case, I guess we will, uh…
Oh, um, Manjaro, did we… Actually vote on Manjaro?
I've heard of it, I have…
not run it. I might have run a successor, wouldn't it?
Mandria?
Once upon a time.
like, 20 years ago?
Mandriva, you mean? Or the…
Yeah.
Okay. Alrighty.
Okay, with that, I better let us get going on the main presentation here.
Uh, unless there's something else that we need to bring up at this point, so… Hearing none.
Uh, Stan already asked, uh, Grant, did you want people to just voice up and… Throw a question out verbally during your talk.
Well, considering there's not much of a talk to it, and just kind of some announcements, and then questions and answers, yes, I want people to…
respond, and…
Alrighty, okay. So you all heard Grant respond or ask questions, make a point, and uh… I'll make an initial point of a big thank you to Grant.
Grant always is, uh, when we, uh, when we need a speaker or a topic.
Uh, Grant is, uh, somebody who's usually available to.
To stand in there and make a topic happen. So, big appreciation. Thank you, Grant.
And with that, I think we'll turn it over to Grant for a discussion on DNS.
Okay. Um…
So, we're kind of trying something new, and this is something we discussed in the steering committee.
And it was kind of based on a recommendation that Tony C. had.
And that recommendation was…
something of a theme basis.
So, the theme is DNS, or Domain Name System,
And… or service, take your pick.
there… we're going to be doing multiple presentations over the coming months.
Uh, trying to spread them out across multiple meetings to not overwhelm people and bring other topics in there as well.
We have some ideas we want to talk about.
But we, and I in particular,
want to make sure that we address or speak to any and all, or certainly as many, questions
that people have regarding DNS that we can.
So with that, the big ask is…
What do you want to know about DNS?
What do you want us, or myself,
to spend time talking about over the coming months.
Um, so I'll pause and see if anybody has any immediate… ooh, ooh, ooh, how do you do this? Type responses.
Jim, go for it!
Yeah, yeah, I have one. So, and I had a… I had a lot of experience and observation with us at One Row, where we made a lot of DNS entries.
for customers, um, I'd be really interested to know if there are tips on.
When there's a new DNS entry created. tips on how to determine.
When it will finish propagating globally. If that's possible, even.
Will, um…
Let me rephrase. If it's, um, realistically possible.
Rather than checking all the separate DNS servers, like, scripting something that goes out to all of them, something crazy like that.
Well, uh, you actually accidentally stubbed on a pet peeve of mine.
And that is…
DNS does not propagate like a lot of people think it does.
what it is, is it's actually cached information on other servers expiring.
So, I think your question is better…
phrased as…
when might the other servers cache of old or bad information?
expire.
Yep. So, and…
Well said. Thank you.
that's… it's not like I'm publishing something and it's
blurbing out, like, Usenet to all the servers in the world.
I publish it on my server, and it actually does
propagate to secondary and subsequent servers, like my backup servers.
But when you, as a web browser at home,
try to go to www.slug.org, let's pick on that name.
you ask, like Phil asked me earlier this evening, what is this IP address?
it… so it asks the recursive,
It then goes and looks it up,
and answers you, and it remembers it
for a certain amount of time.
And how long it's remembered,
is a setting that we can control inside of the DNS zone.
And there are a few different places to set it.
Right.
Um, that is predicated on the recursive DNS server.
play nicely in doing what other people.
DNS zone owners publish and ask.
others to do. There are a few companies out there that say, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna do whatever we want and ignore your recommendations.
I can't help you with those companies.
Other than move your money elsewhere.
Uh, but as a general rule…
It is primary server to secondary. You can predict that, and you can influence it.
And everything else, it's when is the cash going to expire. And if nobody has looked up something on that server, maybe…
You call your friend,
in another state who would never go to your website.
And they try to go to it 3 minutes after you make a change.
I'll bet you dollars to donuts, they've seen the new information immediately.
Correct, yeah, thank you. Well, well explained. Thank you for the correction, too, on my… Mischaracterization?
Thank you.
It's been a pet peeve, and that was on the list.
To talk about, but uh, yeah.
And there is also both positive and negative caching.
Grant, do you have questions or slides to share, or if… Or we just…
Correct. Stan for tonight, I do not have any slides for this. It is more just talking and getting
from people, but…
Okay. I, I… I thought you might have a checklist of prepared questions.
I'm not even remotely that organized tonight.
Um, but…
Okay? Which… which is fine.
Yeah. That's why it's like, Gary, we can take as long as we want talking about voting on distros, because I'm kind of filling time.
So, um…
I believe there was a…
Couple other things in there that…
Yes, positive and negative. Um, there is what is… I believe you're referring to as positive caching, is the caching.
time on… or the time to live on records that exist.
Then there's also the concept of negative time to live,
Which is, no, that record doesn't exist, how long can that no last?
And Stan, I'm probably gonna need to review the recording of this to make some notes.
To make sure we talk about things.
Okay. Well, it will be… this recording will be posted in a day or so.
Okay.
the archive.
Was there another question in there? I feel like there was, and I may have missed it.
Going once, going twice…
Okay.
I'm gonna throw a question out. And I just haven't taken the time to… investigate this. So there is the .na… net domain.
NET. I remember back in the early days, this was.
defined as these were supposed to be. systems, websites, or servers that.
had something to do with the running of the internet.
Uh, that seems to have broken down. There seem to be companies out there that, you know.
bobs.net, or something like that, uh…
I feel like, yes, I do remember that is what it was supposed to be originally.
I feel like that recommendation
broke down.
As part of the commercialization,
in the mid-90s.
I have never…
I would hope so, I got a .NET that runs my internal network.
So that restriction has officially been lifted, or…
As I do, too. I… Gary, I have never run into a registrar that would refuse to sell me a…
Or, pardon me, RentMe,
a .NET domain.
Now…
Okay.
Gary, I've had Omnitec.net for 30 years. And there was never a question.
Yeah. Um…
Well…
there… some of the original…
visionaries of the internet and DNS.
they had some interesting ideas.
Um, there was some suggested hierarchy, like CI for city information,
dot stlouis.missouri.us.
So, conceptually, you could go, well, I want to go visit Branson, can I find some information? Or, pardon me, I want to
get some information on Branson, Missouri. Where might I get some information?
I want city information.
Branson, Missouri, and it's in U.S. Hey, that's predictable!
Um, that kind of went the way of the dodo in the early 90s, too.
Um, about the only thing that I'm aware of…
From that time that is very difficult to get around,
is a non-military…
institution getting a .mil.
domain name.
Just about everything else.
free game. Um, some country code…
Domains require you to live, or at least have a, uh…
legal business address in the country to be able to get something under that country's name.
While those just require a bank account in that country.
Yep.
And, uh, that's just up to each
top-level domain registrar what they want to require.
Okay.
How about the future of, uh, secure DNS?
DOT and DOH?
That, I actually have on my list to talk about DNS.
security mechanisms.
And the things that are on that list is DNSSEC,
DNS over TLS,
DNS over HTTPS,
and DNS Crypt.
There's also DNS through VPNs, but that's kinda not really protocol.
Um,
I have to do some research on DNScript to be able to talk about it.
I like the idea of…
DNS over HTTPS.
I loathe…
the way some vendors…
have implemented it.
The way Firefox and some others
we are just going to arbitrarily not use your system DNS resolver, and we're going to use our chosen DOH provider.
Oh, that… that breaks your internal enterprise stuff?
Sorry, here's a hidden setting you can use to turn it off.
And then later on, oh, you can publish this, and we will detect that, and we won't use DOH.
for your enterprise.
And I see what…
prevents a rogue ISP
from publishing that same thing to disable DOH for all their clients.
Um, DNS over…
Yeah, I noticed that Firefox recently
I can't use self-signed certificates anymore, it's just… it won't accept them no matter what.
So…
Oh, that's another big…
bailiwick and, um, yeah, big Acme-sized hammer coming down on the coyote's head.
Don't get me started on that one, please.
Uh, might I suggest, Gary, that you make note of TLS certificates for somebody else to talk about?
Please! Plee!
Alrighty.
Yes.
I mean, that alone is… Firefox is no longer my favorite browser, so…
I keep looking.
It's the only one you can secure.
I keep looking for an acceptable alternative and coming back to the lesser of the evils.
with lots of plugins and lots of custom settings.
Um, I don't have much experience with DNSO over TLS.
I hope to get some.
Um, I would actually like to add…
DOH or DOT support.
to my existing name servers.
And I believe there are ways to do that. I think
as protocols and low-level technology,
They're wonderful ideas.
the way the tools have been used…
leaves a lot to be desired.
Um, and I hope to be able to talk about and demonstrate more
on those.
Does that cover the broad scope of what you were thinking?
Definitely. Uh, it works.
Okay.
Um, I am also hoping to be able, and maybe I can Shanghai Li into helping co-present something.
would love to show Piehole or something like that, either on a Raspberry Pi.
Or, uh, VM, I went looking at it, now it seems apparently you can add it to your own existing systems. It's no longer…
necessarily its own distro.
Which is one of the main reasons I hadn't used it.
Um, I personally have been using Bind
with response policy zones and many other things for the last two decades, and been extremely happy.
So, I want to have a presentation on pihole, or something analogous to it.
somebody else in a previous
meeting, had wondered about
how to install…
and configure DNS for your home network.
And I'm thinking that maybe a good use case for DNS mask.
Because it is fairly simple, and it gets its data from the Etsy hosts file.
or it can, which makes…
Administering your DNS service on that system.
fairly simple, just edit your…
Etsy host file, and maybe
prod, uh, DNS mask can get updated.
Um, somebody had asked about some…
potential over-the-wire format.
for DNS packets?
I don't know how much interest there is in that. It would probably be a later
deep dive presentation.
Um,
kind of all over the board. Um…
I have more experience than I want to have with Microsoft DNS.
I can bring that into play.
Um, we can even explore other things.
I was talking with somebody on…
The Fediverse. Recently, they were kind of wanting
the benefits of hosting their own DNS, but the scalability?
of a large provider.
And I shared what I do for my personal zones.
And that is, I manage them on my bind…
name the server, and I have my cloud provider windowed Deuce,
standard secondary phone transfers.
So I get all the benefits of
what I like doing, the way I want to,
do standard transfers, and I get the benefit of the scalability
of their distributed servers. So it's an interesting hybrid.
Okay, looking at the chat…
The UH don't need to go with Cloudflare or Google or something else? No, you do not have to use
large providers for DNS over HTTPS.
there are add-ins for…
bind to host your own DOH.
I believe PowerDNS also supports DOH, um…
if not DJB, DNS…
There are multiple DOH…
implementations, and you can point your client at whatever you want.
It's just that it… I think Mozilla is still using Cloudflare?
I'm not sure. It was kind of a Henry Ford ecosystem. You can have anybody you want, as long as it's Cloudflare.
But that was tyranny of the default.
Yeah, Tektium, I've heard that name before.
there are a lot of options.
When you can use…
point most DOH clients wherever you want.
I'm going to pause for a moment and wet my whistle.
see if there are any more questions or requests.
Was dynamic DNS brought up?
You just brought it up.
Oh, alright. I use it all the time for…
Finding home, you know?
So, dynamic DNS…
to me, there's basically two types of dynamic DNS.
There's an RFC, and I want to say it's 2018 something, I'd have to look.
that is dynamic DNS over your standard
In essence of Report 53.
And your DHCP servers and your workstations, and if you do an IP config registered DNS, I think is the command,
Uh, that uses…
dynamic DNS over…
what many people call DNS over port 53, or your traditional DNS.
It's what I use. It's also what…
my ACME.SH client uses…
to register DNS authentication,
for my Let's Encrypt certificates.
And I think, um…
whatever… is Slug using CertBot?
Lee, I know whatever Slug is using, it is also using that same…
dynamic DNS to publish the information.
in DNS on the fly, to authenticate for Let's Encrypt.
Then there's…
things like DynDNS,
org, I think, was the name 20 years ago.
And that was, you do something over…
The web, HTTP or HTTPS,
and communicate some protocol, authenticate
they can learn… either you can tell them your new IP, or they can assume that it is where the
query is coming from.
And they can update.
your records for you. They host your zone and do some other things.
So there's the traditional RFC route,
And then there's the web API route.
Both are options. Um…
I have fallen to the RFC route.
I have seen other people
put some front ends
to receive the web route, and
gateway, excuse me, gateway to the RFC route, to standard DNS servers.
did that at least touch on what you were thinking?
Yeah, I mean, I… I put her on my routers all the time, and…
I just… was…
Especially if I'm… if I'm using, uh…
an ISP that has sticky IPs. You never know when it's gonna change, so…
I'm curious, um, are those more the web API-based, where you give your router
creds to go through a webpage, or…
API connection to the…
a dynamic provider for them to update.
Yep, like you said, dyingdns.org. I've been using it for over 20 years.
Nice.
Uh, Stan, I think the unidentified noise is me, personally.
Um, Steve Levitt is saying he has a $60 a year dynamic DNS account.
I would be interested to learn, and perhaps we could…
work together on the presentation, Steve, where you could provide some input for
someone to present.
what that provides, and a compare and contrast
what I've been able to do with
RFC-based.
Dynamic DNS.
Is that something you would be
willing or interested in participating with, Steve?
Yes, and I can even set up, I can.
punch a hole in my, um… firewall so that you guys can actually experiment with it.
Okay.
I… if… I think it would be very interesting if you would be willing, even if it's just 10 minutes,
here's what I put on my router, here's…
I pointed at…
my provider, you don't show us creds or anything.
And this is what it does for me.
something like that. It's…
The idea, especially of base presentations,
is, here's a neat,
relatively easy to do thing, you might be interested in doing yourself.
So, I would actually like to see a base on what other people are doing with Dynamic DNS.
And…
I'm not 90% sure I can get my hands on that.
Okay. And if you don't want to do the presentation, and you just want to contribute content,
Information.
There are some, uh, suckers in the steering committee that have been known to produce presentations and
present them.
Stan?
Yeah, I use it to connect my WireGuard clients.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
So, I know.
Always know where home is.
Yep, it is a wonderful thing.
So, I…
I have… I have a request to, uh, define.
The acronyms that were posted here in chat. Dot, DOH, DOH3, DOQ.
Okay, uh, DOQ is a new one to me. I'm presuming it's DNS over Quick.
DOH is DNS over HTTPS, the slash 3 probably is a reference to HTTP3.
3. Um…
DOT is DNS over TLS, which is, I believe, actually UDP-based.
not listed is, uh…
DO53.
Which is kind of a retroactive backroonym.
for DNS over port 53, that's kind of the retroactive
long-standing what DNS has been.
Yeah, and I'm sorry, which one is that describing?
DO53, or…
DNS over port 53.
I'll list them out here.
Ah, okay.
This is Stan. I'd like to point out it's often a good idea to ask questions.
Even if you already know the answer. To, uh, fill in the blanks for people that are.
Alright, what question are you asking for Lee?
Too shy to ask questions.
Not tonight.
And I am going… things I'm saying tonight are from my…
understanding of things. If I am saying something wrong,
Please tell me?
Right? Like, polite.
Not packed. Not a, you're wrong, Kartman laughing in my face type thing.
Um, the UHDOT…
I'm enjoying this.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay. Um, stand for Gary does what I…
put in the chat, speak to the…
acronyms?
Yes.
We can get everything covered?
Okay, I think so.
Right? Um, I just looked it up, and RFC…
Uh, 2136, I was wrong on the number.
is… let me copy-paste… dynamic DNS in the… or dynamic updates in the domain name system.
That is the RFC standard that
all contemporary clients, and I assume all contemporary servers,
support.
Um, and I have actually gotten that RFC 2136 dynamic DNS.
to work as the, uh…
idea for the same type of thing people do with DyingDNS.
Wherein I can…
what are called transaction signature keys to authenticate my client and update
DNS across the internet using RFC 2136.
using bog-standard software, nothing else added onto it.
Um, Chris, I did mention DNS Crypt. I don't know much about it myself. I have not done anything with it.
One of the things that…
My understanding is DNS Crypt brings to the table, is it actually
encrypts and hides
the DNS traffic from eavesdroppers.
Um, DNS over HTTPS and DNS
over TLS,
We'll also do that…
I believe DNS over Quick.
should, as well.
But DNS over port 53,
does not, and DNSSEC…
does not provide encryption,
It provides cryptographic verification
of the information that comes through.
Um,
Yeah.
Hmm. Okay.
there had been some…
murmurings about how to install a more featureful
DNS server on systems.
Be it bind or something else.
Um, Lee, do you use a DNS server inside your environment, and if so, which one?
Um, do you use DNS server inside?
I'll rephrase that grant.
not necessarily web internet facing, but do you use something inside your network, or do you rely on something like Etsy hosts?
Oh, God, are you kidding? use DNS mask for 20… for 30 years.
Okay.
Cool.
Which I'm sure would be the subject of another presentation.
Yeah, I was… I mentioned I wanted to show…
how to install and utilize that.
Um, one of the things I have not talked about, but we will get into more with a…
what is DNS-type presentation?
is the difference between a domain…
and a zone.
I watched some comments on Fediverse last night, saying the dot is where you cut things.
Nope. Doesn't have to be.
Um, when there is a cut, it is at a dot.
But a dot is not always a cut.
Um…
I didn't understand that.
And, and, and… Yeah, like I say, you're… You led with the initial sentence, and I'm trying to remember what that sentence was, but…
Um, that is, uh, considered a teaser. There will be a follow-up presentation on that.
with pictures and graphics.
And what shall we call that potential talk?
I don't know. That is a wonderful question. We'll figure it out when we get there.
That's a long title.
will probably be part of what is DNS?
Tyler, um…
you probably could have your K8 services be in a separate zone.
Um, or they could be part of an existing zone,
depending… my recommendation would be…
Should it be a delegation, a zone split?
based on the…
number, frequency of updates,
security discrepancies. You normally see zone splits,
When you're crossing…
administrative boundaries, like,
my registrar,
manages, or…
they don't manage. They have an inn with…
The entity that manages .NET.
That entity delegates
TNETconsulting.net.
to me. I am a separate administrative entity from whoever manages
net. So, when you have that organizational administrative boundary,
you normally see
delegation and…
split zones.
Um, but I have…
lab.tnetconsulting.net.
That is part of my TMACconsulting.net zone.
It is a subdomain, but it is part of the larger zone
That is TNET Consulting, and there's some…
typical graphics that help.
demonstrate the two.
Um, so you could put K8s in a separate zone?
You don't need to. It would kind of depend on your use case, and I would want to know more about what you're doing.
a recommendation one way or the other.
Yeah, as long as you're talking about delegation, uh, and zones, it would probably be good to explain how the ARPA zone is used.
And where the delegation can occur, and some of the workarounds for limitations on that.
Oh, yeah.
So, 2317, classless in Andarpe delegation?
Yeah, um…
And IP6.
Mm-mm.
Oh, boy, yeah, I got that number right. Um, RFC2317
Classless N-Adder ARPA.
So I presume we should talk about what NAT or ARPA is.
And if we could give examples of ISPs that.
work with us, and uh… unfortunately, those that don't.
Yes.
No, I do not want RFC to be turned into ROC.
Uh, are you purposely knocking, Gary?
you're clicking, okay.
Um…
Nope, making noise, sorry.
So, in Adder ARPA,
is…
using, some might say abusing DNS.
to disseminate
translating IP addresses
into names.
It is a reverse mapping.
As in, 1.2.3.4,
translates to 4.3.2.1.n-addder
dot ARPA.
And it…
who leverages the ability for zone splitting and delegation.
So, um…
Hey, I happen to have this webpage in front of me that has Slug DNS information on it.
what NAT or ARPA allows
is for the internet powers that be,
to delegate 206197251
dot star.
to the DNS servers that Omnitech runs.
And that works because it maps to…
And I'll put it in the chat.
After I shuffle some windows so I can make reference.
206197-251…
210, actually, no.
Um, to simplify things, we're going to use a.b.c.d.
Since IP addresses most significant is on the left,
NDNS domain names, most significant is on the right.
it actually flips things around,
And we delegate at…
dot boundaries, or domain boundaries.
So, the people that manage
the 206-197251…
delegate that entire thing
to Omnitech, they can actually delegate
The 251-197206…
in Adder ARPA domain,
to Omnitech nameservers.
So, Omnitech can manage their own reverse DNS
in that 251-197, 206, Interador ARPA.
Zone.
And I heard a noise there, was that a…
question or exclamation, or what?
Okay. Maybe it was background then.
I did not hear the noise.
So, that is…
IPv4s…
IN-addder.arpa.
Um, IN-addder is kind of a holdout for the…
internet protocol?
that is used in DNS.
DNS actually supports
multiple broad protocol families. There's the internet protocol, there's the chaos Protocol,
I think Hesiod…
there's 3 or 4. And effectively, the…
just about the only thing that is used today is internet.
That's what the IN in Adderappa stands for. The idea was they could delegate
other protocol families with different names and use the standard delegation methodology.
That has largely…
simplified, virtually nobody used it.
So, when it came to IPv6 reverse DNS,
I don't know if anybody has looked at Reverse DNS for IPv6.
But it is long, it is ugly, there are lots of dots, and you want to not type it.
So they wanted it to be as short as possible.
So they made it IPv6.arpa.
Um, classless…
in Adderapa.
Lee, do you want to explain IP classes, or do you want me to?
Okay.
Back in the day,
Oh, go ahead, Grant, you're on a roll.
go back at least 30 years.
Um… IP addresses…
The first few bits…
of the address.
denoted the class.
Like, the first bit being a 1, and the next bit being a 0.
Or, no, I'm sorry, the first bit
Being a zero was a Class A
address.
And that went from, like, 1 through…
I don't remember what I'd have to do binary math.
And then there was Class B,
It probably went through 127.
Um, Class B…
The first bit was a 1, and the second bit was a 0.
So it would actually have to be 128
probably through…
What's 128 and 64? Math is hard right now.
224, 223, something, speculating.
there were these broad ranges of IP addresses,
that were encoded in the
the actual bit pattern of the most significant digit.
said which class.
the address belonged to.
that terminology
you ended up with dot boundaries for networks and subnets.
Well, as the internet got busy,
In the late 90s and early 2000s,
what do you do when you have…
less than a slash 24.
How do you delegate
part of that.
C dot B.A. in Adderapa.
you can't really.
So what they do is they turn…
d.c.b.a.naturpa.
into an alias…
that is something else.
that can be delegated on a domain boundary.
it gets weird. Um…
there are a lot of…
moving parts to it. Not every ISP supports it.
In my experience, not every ISP has ever heard of it when I ask them to set it up.
That's what most…
people that know about reverse DNS.
have heard about or used.
I personally take a slightly different approach.
And just…
cross-delegate things.
Um, a teaser is I might delegate
the first…
A through M of C dot B.A dot in Adder ARPA.
to Lee's DNS server.
And then on Lee's server,
He has those records in his Omnitech
server for A through M.
that C.B.A.N adRarba.
And then N through Z,
Inside the zone,
re-delegate.
back to the parent.
and do a loop-around, kind of like NASA slingshot things around the Moon.
It works. It works well.
a lot of people…
get upset at.
Fair enough. And we will get there. I'm just…
I'm… I'm gonna need pictures.
This is a lot of monologue.
getting ideas for what to present in the coming months.
Oh, and Zoom, stop it.
Let me type…
Um…
It is a way too…
delegate…
pieces without involving…
RFC 2317, which causes a lot of people.
Not heartburn, but head scratching.
So…
very much so worth a discussion. It would probably be a…
potentially later, more technical discussion, because it will get into zone content.
And how things are seen across…
multiple DNS servers.
So…
All right. Was there another question in there?
Yeah, um… talking about views.
External view, internal view, where the same. Uh, or the same… object can appear in two different places with two different answers.
Yep.
Um, the simplest way to explain views, and that is a very good
topic.
Um…
For years before DNS servers supported views natively,
The way you got views?
was you ran two separate DNS servers
for the same zone.
And an example would be, like, we have…
company.example.
We have copier mail server, printer, database, whatever.
dot company.example,
have internal IP addresses.
But we don't want to advertise our dirty laundry
to the internet. So what the internet would see
is just mail.company.example.
web.com.company.example,
And it would both internal and external,
had a zone, company.example.
but different content.
or different views
on that namespace.
Do you agree, Steven?
Oh, very much so, and um… I run my own bind so that it has an external view and an internal view. It's quite effective.
I do as well, and I am a very big fan of the in-view.
As in inside of few configuration.
One of the big problems with views is you end up with
a lot of duplication, especially if you have
multiple zones.
Um, so… bind…
gained the ability to have those different views, no pun intended,
on the same singular DNS server.
You know, server software calls it views.
it's a little bit of a mental game if you're not used to it,
But once you're used to it, it's the inside idea and the outside idea.
works out well. When you start having multiple zones in each view, it's like, okay, I've got something…
Do I have to redefine it multiple times and load it into memory multiple times when it is truly the same?
Which you kind of have to because of some configuration minutiae.
bind relatively recently, I want to say sometime within the last…
5 to 10 years?
in Bin's lifetime, that's relatively recently.
gained the ability to say, I want to define a new zone,
Inside of a view, but its zone content is already loaded
in memory in this other view.
Why would you actually have the same zone in multiple views? Why would you use different views?
You may have one particular zone that you need to have the internal and the external,
But since you have your server configured for that,
Views are very often
chosen based on client IP addresses.
Well, now I have clients on the E.
research subnet and clients on the purchasing subnet.
their different views. Security made me do some things.
But I have common things that they both need to see.
I don't want to load that zone into memory twice.
I don't have to anymore.
I pick one, I load it there,
In the other view…
I define it and point to the first one.
So if you're not familiar with the in-view or something like that,
stanza, you want to take a look at it.
You're welcome. Uh…
Go ahead.
not aware of that. Thank you very much. Um… Did you want to get into DNS record types?
Aside from digging into more than just the regular A, quad A, PTR, getting into things like what is an MX record, what is an SRV record.
Absolutely. That is a wonderful thing that has…
Thus far, he escaped me. It probably would have come up as I started trying to do something for what is DNS.
Uh, but yes, very much so.
record types. Um…
One that, in particular, I feel, actually two,
we want to talk about, you know, A and Quad A.
that's guaranteed to be covered, and pointers.
But MX for Mail Exchanger,
And SPF.
Which really… there is a record type of SPF, but it's actually… we use text, not the SPF record.
reasons.
Um, there is a lot.
to that, but anything talking about DNS details would be remiss.
for not bringing those up.
Doesn't that include, uh… play upon site reputation.
with this SPF stuff. Security.
The pause you're hearing
is me trying to figure out how to say, yes, it does, but no it shouldn't.
Um, it does.
Okay.
You have contemporary email providers,
like Gmail.
that now require quote-unquote authenticated email.
SPF is one of the ways
to authenticate email.
And really, all SPF is, is I is a domain owner,
say, via an SPF record,
who I have authorized to send email on my behalf.
And that actually touches on the distributed database nature of
DNS. I have…
My domains on my servers,
Lee has his personal and Omnitech domains on his servers,
Slug domain is… our domains are on Slug servers, happen to be co-located with Lee.
Um, AT&T has their domains on their servers.
All of these participate in the root DNS namespace,
And it is divided up and distributed across the internet.
DNS really is…
a distributed database, heavily optimized
for read-only.
Jamal, I'm right there with you. I… I was an early adopter for my personal domain,
But I have been adding SPF and DKIM support to friends.
And colleagues' domains, helping them to be able to get email placed in the inbox.
for Gmail.
Um, DNS is one of those things that…
People think might be somewhat simple, but oh my god,
does it influence email?
email, though technically possible to function without DNS,
depends on DNS to the point it effectively can't function without it.
Some of us are old enough to remember addressing emails prior to having DNS.
BendPaz with UUCP?
Yes, having to know the… full route, how to get from here to there.
Um, as long as we're doing record types, there's the SSH record type.
Yes, that one, I believe…
And, uh…
What record type does Dane use?
Um…
it is predicated on DNS-Sec.
Okay, um…
My brain is already full and it's not even 8:30.
And I have largely just made noise about things that are going to be talked about.
most of the things talked about thus far.
could be 10 to 50 minute presentations in and of themselves.
Which is why we're going to spread this out over multiple months. And tonight, the intention of tonight was
What are the things do you want us to talk about?
over the coming months.
Oh, can you talk about the staggering of the… The, uh, presentations, topics.
Yeah.
I kind of touched on that, but…
So, obviously there's a lot to talk about. It's under a theme.
DNS that Tony C suggestively try some themes of presentations, and we thought,
Yeah, that's a good idea. Let's do it!
Um…
So, we are going to be doing presentations.
on these various…
DNS-related topics.
over the coming months.
in order to not monopolize any particular meeting,
or meeting slot.
St. Louis Unix users group has…
base and main.
And then there's the St. Louis Linux users group, which is its own presentation.
my kind of idea or recommendation was we roughly rotate
through those.
Um, that way we don't monopolize any time slot or any given meeting.
And if we have somebody else, kind of like, I think, uh, St. Louis Linux next week has
something already on the books.
we're just gonna… okay.
that thing gets that meeting, and we will continue with the…
rotating cycle of DNS.
After that. Um…
So this becomes our filler material when nobody else wants to step up.
Maybe, kind of, sorta, we're looking for a topic Wrangler, and this was a big topic that has a lot of stuff, yes, but I'm not going to admit what you just said.
I didn't say anything.
Well said, Grant, well said.
Ba-da-boom, bada-bang!
I'll point out that, and it has been pointed out to me, there is a.
downside to the rotating it out of Wednesday and.
crossing over into the Thursday. There are some people who have class on Thursday night and not on Wednesday night. There are some people who.
go to church certain night, or whatever. They have scheduled on a… monthly basis. Obviously, it's a pro and a con, because.
Yeah, this would mean that you may miss a DNS topic on a night when you usually can't be there. On the other hand, if all of the DNS topics are on.
Wednesday night, and you have class on Wednesday night, you ain't never gonna hear a DNS topic.
Um, so… I don't know what the right answer is. I'm open to suggestions.
Well, I think Stan…
Well, we record this stuff, and the advantage to showing up is you can ask questions.
as they occur to you. Yeah.
Yes, and I would very… exactly what Stan said, and I would very much so like people to…
If they have questions, comments…
or concerns,
to share those either on Discuss, or you can easily get my email address from Discuss.
or send something to Editor or steercom.
at slug.org, and it can find its way to me.
Um, I want to address…
any and all questions we possibly can,
Even if that means it might not be the most opportune time,
I would rather the information get to people, even if somewhat higher latency.
I imagine at some point there's just going to be questions that you just can't.
provide, or none of us can provide. Because we do have a limited.
limited number of experts. And the expert is defined as somebody that has the topic in their job title.
And that excludes me entirely.
Well, DNS is not in my job title, but it is in my job responsibility.
both my day job, uh, assisting a friend that owns an ISP,
And I volunteer for an organization helping with their DNS.
So… might not be a paid professional, but…
You make valid points.
filling up time with crazy things.
Yeah. We need more questions now, folks.
I'm…
Stay awake!
Steve Libbitt, I'm trying to unpack.
your statement.
You, by chance wanna speak to it?
Let's see…
You're immune if you're talking.
Hi.
Oh, I'm…
Ah. Um, I'd like to remember more of it. I was looking through my, uh, emails to try to dig it up, and part of it's.
Uh, in ChatGP, and I… couldn't jump through their second part, or their.
double, uh… security thing, so I'll have to… dig up more on that, but basically.
It was real simple, because everything I ever do, I try to make it real simple. This thing had.
No security, so anybody who posts. You can… anybody in the world can read what you post. Oh, by the way.
This is about a replacement. for mailing lists. This came about because my, um… Homolog.
kept losing… admins and servers for, uh… Our email list, and every time we did it, we lost the archives.
And it just… You know, I mean, email was once pretty easy, and mailing lists were once pretty easy.
Now you've got… and SPF, and this and that, and the other thing.
And my finding… is that less and less people.
can admin it, less and less people. are willing to… donate their time to get, you know, to admitting it.
I think there's going to come a… And by the way.
Just speaking for myself and quite a few other people.
I'm not a huge fan of these walled gardens, like.
Facebook, Discord, discourse. uh… Google Groups and all that stuff, you know, because.
Every time in the end, they bite you in the butt.
Yeah, it's almost as if an open, federated,
common protocol internet is a good thing.
Well, I don't know about that, but. Oh, I don't know what you're saying exactly.
I'm saying industry standard email, or industry standard instant messaging, or a website that people can post to.
You know, standards that anybody and everybody can use.
And…
Okay, you know the problem with that. Guess who controls the standards?
Um, and invariably, the guys with the money. make it more complicated.
Uh, anyway… As I remember, this thing.
was nothing more or less than just. a, uh… a directory structure.
that anybody could use rsync. to update their own copy of the directory structure.
And people… A post would just.
consist of… making a new file.
within the directory of the subject. And, uh, so you see what I mean about no security?
Yeah.
But that's kind of how it was back in the beginning, you know, we never posted anything we didn't want the world.
to know. I mean, we knew… we knew the limitations of email.
And they're not that much different today. Um, and the thing is, this thing… was going to be…
trivially simple. for anybody to admin.
at their house. Okay, you know, unless you had a heck of a lot of subscribers.
This thing on the back end, and. You can run the back end at your house, or you can run it on… one of these, uh… rent a slice of a computer things, um…
one of those droplets, or whatever they're called, I really don't remember right now.
But you can run it pretty much anywhere. Anybody can run it.
anybody can be kind of like a, uh… a steward of the thing it can replicate.
Uh, the replication is kind of manual, but. You know, that can be in a shell script.
cron jobs are wonderful.
Yeah. And… The thing is… You would never… be in a situation where you lost your archives.
Because anybody who. gave a flying flamingo.
Would simply r-sync the thing to their own. computer.
And so… It would just… it would…
it would be better. then email has ever been for mailing lists, and I think we all know that.
Mailing lists are what brought us to the dance.
with free software. Uh, you know, the, uh… the, uh, you know, Linux was not.
Thought up or organized on. discourse.
Uh, it… it was a mailing list.
So… Basically, I can… pretty much do everything except the back end.
Which… I think the big deal of the back end is.
it does insist that you be subscribed to the group.
Uh, you know, just… I mean, yeah, you can get spam in there, but then you, you know, the user who submits the spam.
can get booted, too. Um… And, you know, I… I foresee the thing being done.
the back end is being done in. Go, or rust.
And I… You know, and I mean, maybe even Python, if you just have, like, 10 people there, just… to get the thing running and understand what's really needed.
And then the front end, it doesn't need anything more than Python, if that. It might end up being a shell script.
Okay.
I've heard of DNS, and I wonder what it is.
DNS? I'm missing something here.
Yes. It's an inside joke.
I'd like a talk… I'd like a talk on how to spell DNS.
Oh, okay. By the way…
Don't know spelling.
Nope, you're good.
Is my microphone too hot?
You're good.
Oh, the real funny thing is, is I… Um, I built a.
I guess I'm sure, but I put together a.
a Discord. server for my family to use to chat, to get them off Facebook.
They're now starting to do this nonsense where they want the, um.
Face scanner, the government IDs. You know, um.
You know, the stuff they lost 10 months ago.
Because somebody couldn't properly configure it. There's 3 bucket.
Yeah. Discord…
I didn't understand that.
So I've been looking at trying to find something to actually replace it.
So, this court is basically… like Slack or.
Any other IRC clone? But it's all on the webpage, instead of having to have a client.
And I've actually came across another one that's completely.
open source called Matrix, and I've been actually looking to see what it takes to.
actually deploy it. To get my family off of Discord, because it's obviously.
Gordon Goblin. to bond quality here.
What all are you using Discord for with your family?
Just general family chat. The idea was to get all that stuff work.
Planning this, doing that out of Facebook's. chat and on.
a closed… Uh… chat room.
And out of the one I really use SMS, because it never comes across right.
Have you considered using, uh, signal groups?
Thought about that, but.
Again, we're running into the problem. Somebody else owns the server, therefore.
Um…
things can get change. in service, whereas.
this matrix server, I run the thing.
Another option is Kutch, which is serverless.
CWTCH. I am.
I'm of the opinion anything that claims that it is serverless
is a lying pile of bits.
They're…
Um…
get, I have…
What about Git?
repos on…
multiple of my servers.
I call our new…
Now, even…
Git itself runs locally. So, the collaboration part, that's GitLab, that's GitHub, Git… Your bucket, or…
Even between two Git repos without involving those, that is still a protocol
Across the wire.
serverless usually boils down to…
You do not have to administer and run
a server. Somebody, somewhere, is doing it for you.
In the case of Kutch, it's point-to-point. Unless you want to do groups, and then there's a group server, but uh…
How do your points find each other?
Oh, that's right.
That involves servers.
on the Onion Network.
level, there's got to be some kind of directory somewhere.
Well, if you want to take it to the extent it does involve networking, too.
Yes.
Right.
You are depending upon somebody else's infrastructure.
So, any claim to the contrary…
is questionable from the word go.
Are there any other questions regarding DNS before we devolve?
too far.
Okay. Um…
Gary or Stan,
Is there any other…
meeting back matter, we want to do before general conversation.
None that I can pick up. Gary probably asleep by now.
I would ask Lee to go wake him up, but that might take a little bit.
What? What, what, what?
You, uh, you present a good point, though. I mean, any… Uh, I think we've covered a lot of territory, and uh… Uh, so, yeah, a lot of good stuff here to base future presentations on.
So, yeah, anybody want to make an effort and, you know, something that you've.
really would have liked to have included in topics for future nights.
Now's the time to open your mouth, or type it in the chat and say it.
Um, or subscribe to Discuss or otherwise
And I'll say…
request to me.
Okay, very good. Oh.
I just gotta er, I'm. probably in the next month is gonna… I'm going to be.
figure out how to get the Kubernetes services. Which is how you get to.
things within a KH cluster. auto-populate out into my local DMS, because.
You don't just hit an IP address like you do normally.
Sorry. Um…
Let's chat about it on Discuss, and I… it sounds like a very interesting thing to…
figure out a way to do.
And I suspect there are multiple other people that would be interested in it.
And variation of this previous question, anything else that somebody needs.
an answer to, yet, now, tonight, uh, on the DNS topic.
DNS no, I'll take any hints on how to crack the.
The applicant tracking system at Boeing. If anybody knows that.
No, I didn't, and…
Grant, did you understand the question?
It sounded like…
how Boeing is tracking people and
Well, I'm just trying to get to the applicant tracking system at Boeing.
Oh. No. Sorry. I can't help with that.
Trying to find a different job.
Okay. Okay, let me broaden out the question, uh, rather than just tonight's topic about DNS.
Anybody have any just general, uh, calls for help, uh.
Questions, comments… the nature of the world of computing.
Where can I find statistics on how many people are moving to Linux?
Really? Really?
Really? Only thing I know is the Steam Hardware Survey.
That would be a trend. Definitely not.
Okay.
I've seen some YouTube videos that say that, uh… Microsoft's kind of in a panic because they're… AI engine or whatever.
has some pretty significant security leaks in it. Um, which has got the, you know, the corporate users, like the company I used to work for, they were.
Hmm.
Oh, it's gonna be Microsoft, you know. But… I don't know if they've made the switch to Windows 11, but… A lot of companies are just saying, ah, we don't… we're not going that way.
And Dell is kind of backing off. Um, partnering with them.
Hey. A coworker of mine went.
Oh yeah, I… I've heard that too, and… a lot of the… Um…
YouTube videos as of later. I'm switching to Linux, or this is… but just so I'm… Switching to, alright. This is why you're all nuts.
Yeah, if I was. Sergio, what's his name, but.
Would, um, definitely be worried about. Um…
what's going on with. Here's, um…
Well, there was…
as coders, because all they seem to. Jew is, um… double or make their… double their memory usage, or… generally make their OS worse.
Yeah, uh, one of my coworkers went to do an upgrade to a PC that got broken.
He called up the vendor and said, uh, just give me the next model.
He received it, started loading software on it. did not realize that they had switched from AMD to the Snapdragon.
And suddenly, many pieces of the software that. he used to load, no longer work on that machine, his antivirus didn't work.
The VPN didn't work. And that's when I told him, oh, you got a co-pilot PC.
That has all the co-pilot features built into it.
He was not amused with the mistake.
Yeah, I started rebuilding my envir- er. my work PC, and it's like.
No, go away, go away, go away, you're stupid.
Um, no, you're not getting anywhere near my code base.
They got bloody co-pilot in paint now.
Yeah, I think that was one of the things that freaked people out, because I had Copilot in.
every stinkin' thing. Their paint, you know, word pad.
Or, uh… Yeah, what was the real bro… yeah, notepad, the one that was, like.
Notepad, everything.
They should have removed that. a decade ago, but it's… He was still at Windows 10!
Well, my question has the…
Oh, they never pull anything out of the OS.
Notepad has a…
Hmm.
It and Workpad
Yeah.
have a special reason for existing.
Um, Notepad is a basic
no frills…
show a text area,
You can load file into it, save file from it, edit text,
And, uh, set some color properties. It's…
built-in Windows graphical components
plugged together that way.
WordPad is essentially the same thing, but it is rich text.
I've been experiencing.
Instead of plain text.
I just saw a posting today that Notepad had a security.
Uh… warning on it, because the… something they did at… they actually added this, the, uh… I ate garbage into it, and it… Uh, they've got a, uh… CB, whatever you call it.
On it today.
Well, that's no fun.
Yeah. And that's about one of the most simple programs that they've got.
Notepad. Hmm. Why do you possibly need?
You think it's simple.
It used to be simple.
Ain't nothing simple on Microsoft anymore.
We're starting to preach to the choir here, folks.
Right. Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
I just got back about 10 minutes ago, my sound went completely batshit crazy.
on this thing, and uh… Brave is now auto-switching. Every time I switch tabs, it gives me a different audio output.
Uh, so… I spent the last hour going through it with chat. I thought I had it fixed, and then it switched again.
to Twitter, and you see people losing work because terminal just basically killed itself.
because of some sort of Microsoft account authentication problem, that's absolutely mad.
Yeah, there's… Linux as a solution to a lot of that.
Have you guys seen there was a big push for, um.
Arch Linux users through this, um… I guess it would be, like, kind of like… recoding or repainting, um, called Omachi.
Thank you.
With, uh, DHH. Daniel, the guy who made Ruby on Rails.
I saw that was popular for a while. I haven't got the chance to check it out.
No, I have not.
Have any of you seen it?
Not right.
the… I quit trying to keep up with Linux distros years ago.
Uh, at the time, there was a new distro per day.
And I think it slowed down a
Fair.
Little bit.
When you'd like, stick with it.
And what was the name? What was the name you were just mentioning?
Is somebody still… is there somebody's…
uh, omachi, O M… A-R-C-H-Y, I believe, is the spelling.
Okay. Nope, I'm not familiar with it either.
Yeah, the big idea of it was to be, like, um, rather than… because Arch Linux, the idea is, you know, you build… you do everything yourself.
Or at least, that was the premise that I understand. Um, but with this one, it comes with a lot of things out of the box to try and, like, just get you going, um, for people that want to try.
Uh, Linux, um, in a developer environment kind of thing. It was interesting, but it was getting a lot of attention on social media.
So I just saw it from that. And it felt like it was a part of the, yeah, I'm switching to Linux, uh, movement.
About 4 to 6 months ago, this guy named, uh.
with the handle cutie pie or something like that, a big gamer had.
I don't know, he's got 4 million or 7 million followers, and he came out and said that he was switching to Linux.
and posted a one-hour video, said, I switched to Linux, and you should too.
And supposedly, that is… that has started a movement among gamers to… to… to switch over to Linux.
But I noticed that. Uh, he had switched over to an arched version of Linux, and.
I couldn't keep up with whatever he was doing, and, you know, I've been in.
Linux since 1995, and uh… I'm, you know, for some of the gamers out there, oh, I think that's a little bit too much of a switch to.
To bite off. And that was kind of why I was wondering if there's any kind of really.
reliable statistics. To know if there really has been a transition.
I wonder, does…
Among a lot of people.
valve release any numbers of the platform Steam?
is being run on…
Platform hardware survey. Our student hardware survey.
Okay.
So, yeah, to me, a survey is dependent on…
Thank you.
user responses, I was thinking more…
Oh, it's annoying. You start up Steam and says, can you, can we survey your system? And it sucks all the data out.
Okay, no, I was thinking more…
what…
they saw downloads…
And people purchasing games for…
not necessarily…
responding to the survey. I assume there is a way you can opt out of that survey?
Yeah, you say no.
Ask me a few times, and…
Yeah, I mentioned, uh, kind of at the beginning of the meeting that I was.
uh, getting rid of all my Windows applications. And one of those, I had to go to Android.
Um, but for everything else, I've been using… Uh, Microsoft… Uh, or I'm sorry, I said that backwards.
Um, but I remember… Uh, maybe, uh, I'll say a… better part of a decade ago, a big part of the Linux push was.
There were some, uh, slim distributions. that didn't… you know, you could run them on a fairly small footprint, and a lot of computers at that time.
you really couldn't go over 4GB of RAM. Um, that type of thing, and so there were a lot of distributions that kind of carried that.
Well, sounds 32 bit.
But in this more recent transition. Um, like, Ubuntu… And I also had an experience with Rocky, which is, you know, the Red Hat downstream.
Um, Ubuntu… Wasn't compatible with one of my… you know, bargain-priced EPC laptops.
Uh… apparently because of video drivers, um. Yeah, I think that might have been the same problem with running Rocky. The instance I was running was on a virtual machine running on.
Um, VMware. And I… and it's an older version of VMware, which they… VMR changed their policy to where you.
can't update to… at the time was… version 7, I believe?
Unless you had, you know, Uber hardware. Uh, you know, some features in the CPU that they require to run their stuff.
But I think more recently, the Linux stuff has also kind of been…
you know, requiring more hardware, and I think some of the, uh… cheaper hardware has probably already died of old age. I know the laptops that I used to have that.
worked with some of the, uh, slimmed… down Linux versions.
you know, they've died of old age, so they… you know, kind of… self-terminated themselves, whereas, you know, now, the hardware that you get, even the.
used PCs from. Um… EPC, I mean, the standards are higher to where you.
You're really not gonna want to… you might be able to try out a version that has 4GB.
But you're gonna have problems with it that you're not really going to want to live with.
And it's not an issue that Linux. is broken, it's just, if you start running out of RAM.
it's gonna run like a dog, and you're not gonna like it.
Um, and that's just… part of the game, so most of the distributions now, like Ubuntu.
you know, if you don't have more than 4GB of RAM.
You're probably not going to be happy for the long term.
You know, the last time I went to EPC to get a new laptop, they just happened to have a Z.
32GB of RAM, and I thought. Mine! And it… I had tried one of my other laptops, like the one I.
used for most of my stuff, which is a 4G system, which I tried to update to 15.
Um, and that didn't succeed for… reasons, I don't know, but it's an old Dell with a big 17-inch monitor.
Um, I tried to install some stuff on that, and it didn't… it didn't run right, you know, the video drivers kind of acted up.
Um…
And the big problem was just it started running out of memory once… once I figured out how to get that.
What are you running it? You're running out of memory.
You know, work around… as best I could, the video issues, but then…
Um… some audio applications, or like, uh… digital audio workstations.
What do you mean by digital workstations? I don't understand.
And that just wasn't gonna fly, so I. Um… digital audio workstation.
Where you plug in sound devices and record. Um… you know, MIDI keyboards and that kind of stuff.
Uh, well…
Oh. Ah.
And they're by nature, they're pretty. But even install… even… it was just installing and running Ubuntu on the older hardware, that it just wasn't gonna work. But I got that new Xeon with 32GB.
And all the stuff I tried before. It just worked, period.
So… That might be one thing that some people are, uh, you know, if you want to dump Windows 10.
and go to a, uh… Linux distribution, that.
depending on what you want to run. You may have issues. You know, my other.
you know, my ham radio laptop that I use for, like, digital communications.
It was Windows 10. And I was using it for more than just.
the ham radio stuff. Um…
I will say that the most RAM I've got on any machine I've got is 8GB.
And I don't think I use that, even half of that most of the time, and Linux Mint itself is… They say it'll run on 2GB, and I've got a machine or two that I will run on. It's a little slower than the others, and most of them…
What I've got is all, you know, they're 4GB machines, so… Uh, and I've run that… what is that, uh, UBS, or… I forget the acronym for the video recording stuff. It's, uh… And I've got no problem with that.
Yeah, I've published. I mean, it probably depends on, uh, like a.
You know? OBS Studio, yes, that's it.
driver issues. Um… So, if you're one of the guys who's trying it for the first time, and you have.
have problems then, it may. You shouldn't mind your hard work, so…
Oh, of course, you know. Of course, you know, you're… You know, it's totally unfamiliar, and that's the problem. People will come in and they say, oh, that doesn't work for me anymore, I can't find anything that works. Well.
You're not trying hard enough, or you're not asking.
your French that are running Linux.
Yeah, and I think… Back to the video stuff, I think one of the big things they've changed in.
I think most distributions, but that they move the, uh… video, you know, GUI stuff from.
the old X drivers, which have a pretty long history.
to a new one they call Wayland. And that was part of my problem.
Wayland, yeah, and, and uh… Yeah.
Um…
It's also… well, you know, outfits like Red Hat, they've gone at the defaulting to Wayland, and that… and it's just not.
totally switched over yet. You know?
Yeah, and I think some of the drivers that used to work didn't make it into Wayland.
And there is a way of disabling that. you know, to where I would go ahead and run with X.
Um… But yeah, in my case, I wound up.
No.
So, you know, the one laptop, I needed more memory anyway, or a bunch of memory, and I found the one that's got 32GB, and so I worked around that, but it… Yeah, there's some… It puts people in a hard position, because.
you know, part of Microsoft, you know, going to 11, well, you need this Uber… Um… hardware… But in the case where I was just doing some basic.
stuff, like I said, the one that I used with the ham radio stuff.
It actually transitioned pretty smoothly. I actually had more problems with getting it to boot.
Um… I think it had to do with whether I booted from, like, the old.
old-fashioned BIOS, or the UEFI stuff. I finally found my way through that.
Um, to where it actually works fine. But… yeah.
Unfortunately, some people wanting to switch may have hardware.
woes.
Oh, that's because they just really don't understand hardware and how it interplays with the operating systems. That's… that's… the way I see it.
Yeah, and it can be… Yeah, really complicated to figure out, too.
I mean… Yeah, agreed, but, you know, there's so many people out there that just don't have the skill or background to.
To understand that what can be done. Great.
Well, they… they just… everything's just worked for them.
Oh yeah, yeah. Think about it. Yeah.
I've ever had to sit down and…
Yeah, which is… makes… it's actually worse for Windows users, because they… you know, okay, Windows got all the drivers, you just install it and away you go, or… you buy a laptop at, uh…
Best Buyer Micro Center with, you know, Windows pre-installed, and… bada-bing, bada-boom!
But then when you get out of the, uh…
Yeah.
Dell Hardware that directly supports Microsoft, and try to put something else on there, and, you know, you have a missing driver, that… That's a horse of a different color.
Not really. I've been through that a couple times this year with laptops.
Yeah.
And I'm…
And half the time, the hardware you get with a Windows device.
is some simple crap that doesn't support the full interface.
And it's not a question of replacing it, it's a question of putting in something that is real.
Yeah.
Do you follow? You know, and that's one of the things you have to watch out for. I bought a new laptop last summer.
And I went round and round trying to find drivers for it, till I figured out that.
It wasn't a real Wi-Fi chip. There are some stupid Windows driver for it that wasn't a driver, it was the software that ran the chip.
So I threw it away, and for 20 bucks, I got a good Intel Wi-Fi.
card and dropped in the laptop, and it's been running ever since.
Does wind motoring mean anything to you?
Hi, uh… is what?
Win modem?
Okay.
I remember those.
No, not wind modem, not for Wi-Fi. But I forget what the chipset was, but it wasn't a real chipset.
Right. I'm staying win mode of concept, which was software modem,
But applying it to network partners.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
it was half the… basically.
I had, a year or so ago, I wound up with a laptop that, you know, that was… it had an Ethernet, and it had Wi-Fi.
Well, it was Microsoft was loaded on it. Well, Microsoft had a driver for the Wi-Fi, but they had no drivers for the doggone Ethernet.
And you go up and, you know, it… is old enough that you could, you know, if you had a driver, Ethernet driver for it.
You could make it work, but they didn't even bother to make an Ethernet driver for the darn thing, so Ethernet didn't work on the thing, although the thing had a plug.
You know? Crazy.
frustrating.
I need to bow out for the evening. Is there anything else for me before I go?
Thank you very, very much, Grant. Very much appreciate it.
We appreciate your efforts, thank you.
There will be more forthcomings, so…
Have a good evening.
All right, yee-haw. Good evening, thank you.
Ah, thanks bud.
And everyone, it is… 857, do you know where your cats, dogs, children are? No.
Upstairs. Upstairs.
Uh… Pardon me? Upstairs, okay.
Yeah, anyway, uh, we are getting close to our regular shutdown time. I guess if everyone is hot to talk.
We might be able to extend this and stay open later, but uh… so… Tell me, we got more stuff we need to talk about?
or want to talk about, I should say?
Or is everybody brain-dead by now? Like me.
Yeah, I'm thinking about raiding the fridge.
I'll make. Your blind squad and bookend, Gary.
I'm reading the clankers.
I'll take this up. I'll take this… Well, I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone, uh, next Thursday night, uh.
Yeah.
8 days from now is a talk by Red Hat, uh, senior engineer.
Uh, and, uh, that is on, uh, Boot Sea.
Uh, containers, booting Atomic Linux. Uh, so, by all means, come. Uh, there'll be, uh.
I'm sure just a little bit of Red Hat particularities involved.
Uh, but, uh, probably also some good general information, and certainly tell any of your Red Hat.
oriented friends, uh, about next Thursday night. Next month, on the Wednesday meeting.
Uh, the main speaker will be Scott Graneman. Uh, he'll be… presenting the next decade of his continuing series of This Decade in.
computer history, uh, so off the top of my head, I don't recall which decade that is, but we're getting close to real time, so it's… it's coming a lot closer. So, uh… That's next Wednesday, a month from now.
Yeah, I'm sorry, next month. one month from now, the Wednesday general meeting.
Uh, anything else we need to announce?
I move we adjourn the meeting. Bookend.
Okay, bookend. The bookend, this was Wednesday, February the 11th, 2026. This was the.
monthly general meeting of SLU, the St. Louis Linux.
Unix user group. Uh, our speaker tonight was, uh… Good lord.
Grant Taylor.
Grant Taylor, thank you. My brain is obviously gone. Uh, Grant, uh, spoke to us tonight, uh, the.
basic tutorial was, uh… Uh, the basic question and answer sequence to DNS.
And then our main topic was basically a deep-down exploration of DNS.
what the ins and outs of it were, and topics we'd like to see on the subject of DNS in future talks. So… With that, thank you all for coming. Good night.
Ready. GoodEndSee ya.