Going down. Do we have? Do we have anybody set up as as co-hosts?
Book in, please, Mr. Gary. Good evening, everybody. This is the St. Louis Linux Unix user group. It's our general monthly meeting, and tonight is Wednesday, April the 8th, 2026.
Our presentation tonight is going to be. from Scott Granaman, former vice president of this group, and Jan Spartan. Both of them are the principals at Web Sanity, and their topic tonight is going to be.
Artificial intelligence, basically the use of it to generate code.
So looking forward to that. Before we do that, we're going to have a few.
introductory notes and and then also a very brief period of time for some Q&A. And.
Just to see if anybody's got any questions they really need answered early in the evening. There'll also be time after the presentation tonight to delve into this general Q&A as well.
So with that, let's see. San, do we have… the overhead, the slides.
Well, I'm looking at them. I don't know what you're looking at.
Stay in. Not the slide. Yeah, we don't see any slides.
Oh, a bitch.
Well, Stan is working on that next week on Thursday we have Robert Satek, one of our long-term members. He's going to do a presentation for us on DuckDB.
And he did a presentation on DuckDB back in November. This one will be kind of a different view of it. Basically, it's specifically DuckDB.
to organize the U.S. Census data and which of course if you've ever looked at it, there's a lot of data there and he also may get into using it for.
geological data as well.
close geospatial data, but close enough.
Thank you, geospatial data. Thank you. That was the voice of Robert.
God damn it.
That was not… that was Stan.
Oh.
I give up. I totally give up. I mean, I just.
Okay, we'll cut it. Kind of doing it from memory, then. By the way, that meeting is next week on Thursday. It starts at 6 30. And.
Probably goes till maybe 9, but probably less. So.
Let's see other meetings. Stan, do you remember what day the new user group is?
I don't know what I had for breakfast, and you asked me a question like that?
I know. Well, you know, the nice thing is, is I can just call up the calendar.
The calendar has all of that on it. For those who have it.
Oh, wow, Gary is actually using the computer. How about that? Oh my.
For those of you who haven't used it, if you go to slug.org.
slash calendar. It will bring up. Both our own events, the ones that we sponsor and do. There's also a subdivision of it which do St. Louis local events.
And another subdivision that does remote and online events. So you can see all of that together at one time, or you can divide it up into the different ones.
So with that, I'm going to peek. and see when our… Local meeting, so…
The main Lennox meeting should be, uh, 8 days from now.
Shit.
There we go.
Thank you very much. Appreciate that clue.
Let's see.
And so it would be the the new user one 8 days from now. No.
Eight days from now is the Linux group.
Anyway, as simple as if you use both the calendar. You can see everything at once. Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
World Penguin Day is the 25th of the month.
The new Linux user group is on Tuesday the 28th.
The new Linux group. It. It's not exclusively. You don't have to be a new user. In fact, it's kind of fun for a familiar user to be there. But the the rule is, whoever considers themselves to be the the newest user of Linux gets to ask the 1st question and kind of push that to.
to an answer. And then the next most new user.
But I always encourage the gray beards, so to speak, in the group. Yeah, it's actually very informative to go there, because you find out what new users are looking for.
And the amazing thing is, is, you know, somebody will say, Stan will say one thing and Phil will say, you know, yeah, but I do it this way and I'll be there taking notes and going, you know, wow, I didn't know you could do it either of those two ways.
Um, so yeah, you, you… It's amazing sometimes what you find out from other experienced users.
So I encourage you all to go on the 7th of May, it's a Thursday, and that is the St. Louis Area Computer Club. That is primarily a hardware group. So yes.
even discussed proprietary operating systems like Microsoft. So yeah, I can ask the whole range of questions there.
Let's see. We did have our elections last month. They were delayed because of some problems with the mail, and the.
the result was basically the incumbents were reelected. Lee Lamert was elected to another 3-year term on the board.
And Grant was elected to another three-year term on the board.
So, and they'll get around to appointing offices. Speaking of offices or office holders, if anybody would care to.
Volunteer to be kind of in charge of public relations. We've had some people in the past, but they've been drawn off into other things. But yeah, just somebody to put our meetings on the calendar, send out the discuss or announce.
information when we get a meeting set up. Uh, but yeah, we could use, uh, we could use some helpful fingers on that. So, uh, anybody want to volunteer? Contact me.
Um, let's see what else do we have? Any changes in the calendar or something that, uh… You should do.
Will you know of anything? No, not off the top. Okay.
Let's see… I think it probably covers all the categories unless somebody knows or something.
Now, considering the popularity of the subject. I mean.
Probably want to jump into it. Yeah, yeah. Let's see anything that you can think of, Stan, that I've left out?
Stan, we see your lips moving, but we don't hear your voice.
You're muted, Stan.
Thank you.
and we heard the thank you.
I hate Zoom. I hate Zoom.
as do we all. Anything to add, Stan? Okay, that's a good ad.
I hate Zoom. Oh, oh, yeah, I almost forgot. I hate meetup horse.
Okay. There we go.
Okay, let's see. Let's see, our speakers tonight.
Uh, we got Scott Granaman, former vice president of the group. He's waving to us there. And Jan Carton. Both of them are the principals at Web Sanity.
And they've been excellent speakers for us for quite some time. Scott.
totally surprised us, what, about 2 years ago? 2022? Maybe. And he said, Okay, guys, hold on artificial intelligence is just going to fly. I mean, it's going to grow like crazy.
Wonderful presentation, and he was right. Everything just took off a couple months after he warned us that that's what's going to happen.
His presentation was in November and in January. It was a floodgate. Everybody else in the world must have seen Scott's presentation.
when Scott's not working at web sanity, he's an adjunct professor. He's teaching at Webster University, and at St. Charles Community College right now, and he's taught at wash you and other places around town in the past.
So, uh, with that, uh… Oh, I guess I did say if anybody really wants to ask a question up front on just a general topic.
Uh, now's the time. I will make a really quick observation.
You mean a call for help?
Yeah, call for help. Let me make a really quick observation of working with some folks on government contract this week.
So an Hp. Proliant, a DL360 model. It's a 1U rack mount server.
If you go to the HP site right now, it lists for $70,000.
Uh, the government. Until today was getting them for $10,800.
And you're on… well, I found out about it on.
I found out about it on Monday, but that $10,800 price government purchase jumped up to 20.
24,500. So what is that? Steep increase. Yeah, steep increase. So and the price increase was attributed to.
the memory and the solid state disks. The chip cost is just skyrocketing.
I've also heard some stuff just from other sources that you're thinking, well, I don't buy 1U servers of that quality. Well, even the price of laptops is supposedly going to be skyrocketing.
Any other general comments or questions? Can you hear me? Yes, Steve.
Hey, Gary, can you hear me now?
Yeah?
Yeah, yes.
we have 2 Steve's logged in. Zoom can't deal with two people with the same name. You got to do something.
Well, let me log out and… yeah, two of them?
I don't think that's a problem.
Especially if there's a person.
I'm not sure.
How in the world do you change your name?
Well, change your name with Steve Stefan.
I'll just leave and come back.
I won't do any good if there's another Steve on here with a known last name.
I don't think that matters, Stan, because it uses a unique ID number.
It does matter. I've seen it. I've seen it mess up real bad. It does matter on Zoom.
Okay. Okay.
Anything else? I'm ready to go! I'm champing at the bit!
Thank you. We have a lot to cover.
Okay.
Okay. We're turning it over to Scott. We got a lot of material to cover. Oh, by the way, Scott, Scott, you want people to interrupt you or wait until you ask for questions?
I think it's okay once we get to clawed code, do people ask questions?
Uh, but if you could hold off until we get there, that'd be good.
Okay. Very good. Thank you, sir, and go.
Okay, so we have a slight problem. My co-presenter tonight, James Carton, who you've got… many of you have seen,
Um, he's getting a colonoscopy tomorrow.
So, about…
An hour and 45 minutes ago…
He started drinking the necessary stuff,
And about 10 minutes ago, much to his surprise,
He suddenly had the effect of drinking that stuff an hour and 45 minutes ago, so he will be joining us when he can.
And if he is in the middle of presenting, and all of a sudden he says, I gotta go, and runs out…
For one or two minutes at a time.
Don't make fun of the poor guy, but uh… that's what's going on.
So, I just wanted to make sure everybody understood that.
Alright, let me share my screen.
Yep.
I know. We're a bunch of old people, we know. We've all been there.
We've always been, we've all been there.
Alright.
Let's share the screen. Okay.
I hate being elderly.
So, let me turn off this little window…
Cool. Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and start. Now, normally, obviously, we have a tutorial,
And then we have the main presentation,
I'm gonna kind of give a pseudo-tutorial,
To begin with, and then I'm going to…
Um, we're gonna dump… jump into Claude Code officially.
And that will…
be, like, the main one, so I'm kind of giving the tutorial now, because I'm going to give you guys a broad overview.
Um, so here we go, let's jump in.
So, the title of this talk…
And by the way, now that Janz is in here, I can say a few things.
Because he and I were arguing about a couple of terms.
So, does somebody have their mic on? Because I hear feedback.
Does somebody have their mic? Because I'm hearing…
like that. Okay, if somebody…
No, if somebody could turn the mic off, I'd appreciate… whoever has their mic on, I'd appreciate it.
Now I do, now I don't.
So, this is about clawed code, and what I said to Gary was that the world kind of changed in November of 2025. So, we're talking less than 6 months ago.
The world changed. And that's why I wanted to give this… Janz and I wanted to give this talk tonight, because we're in a new world, as I'm about to demonstrate to you.
And I know it's a world some of you already know, um, I know it's a world some of you don't know anything about. And so, we're gonna try to cover things. I'm still amazed by what we can do now that we couldn't do.
Six months ago, a year ago, uh, 3 or 4 years ago, when I first started talking about this stuff with you. Literally, I just… I'm like, it is amazing to me that we have tools now that can do these things.
So, I'm hope… hopefully that'll be true for the rest of you as well. Now, I read…
Hours every day about a wide variety of topics. I am on Hacker News, reading what people say there. I use Ars Technica. I like to read the comments there.
And, uh, I also use Mastodon for my social media, and Blue Sky for social media.
And one of the topics that people discuss everywhere is AI. And…
Uh, generative AI of all sorts of topics, and I'm here to tell you, and maybe some of you already know this, there is a lot of knee-jerk hatred
about AI tools out there. People just… you say the word AI, and it's kind of like in the 50s or 60s saying communist.
It's like, they quit thinking, and they just react viscerally. Now, some people have reasonable reasons, and I understand that, but a lot of it's just…
It's very knee-jerk, I hate that.
And they don't want to engage any farther, and so I wanted to show you two of these.
Uh, to give you an idea what, you know, people are saying, not everybody, certainly, but this is definitely out there.
So, Blue Sky went down the other day, and people immediately blamed AI coding.
And it wasn't. That wasn't the cause, but that didn't prevent hundreds of thousands of people from saying, oh, AI coding, that's causing the problem. So this person, this is 2 days ago,
With the amazing functionality Blue Sky is showing today, here's a hot take. Any developer or programmer using vibe coding, or any reliance on AI to code things is clearly too stupid to know how to do the job they're paid to do, and should be fired out of a cannon.
Coding takes skill, not slop.
And here's a second one.
AI is a slot machine, plain and simple.
People are excited because it's new, but it is still not better than a professional at anything.
Hell, it is not better than even an idiot at most things.
And I've shown these quotes like this to you guys every time I've talked about AI, and I've always had the same response I say to you guys.
And that is, I don't know what they're trying to do with AI that they have these opinions. Because…
It is so incredibly useful to me, it's incredibly useful to JANs. I read online all the time about people that are using this,
every day to do jobs they couldn't do before, or to do it a lot faster, or more efficiently.
We're using it to save money, because we don't have to hire as many outside developers now, for instance.
And as a counter to the hate, I wanted to show you this one response that I saw, uh, yesterday as well.
Actually, from February 12th until December of last year, I was using LLMs as fancy autocomplete for coding.
It was nice for scaffolding out boilerplate, or giving me a gut check on some things, or banging out some boring routine stuff.
In the past two months, Claude has written about 99% of my code, things are changing.
Fast. And that's what I want to present to you guys tonight.
Because that's been my experience. Now, 99%, that varies. I asked Jans today, um, how much do you think Claude's written in your code? Like, 90%? And he said, I have no idea.
Maybe around that? Maybe not? So it's gonna vary for different people.
But more and more people are using it more and more, and I think by the end of this, you're going to see why.
So, why now? Why do we want to have this talk now? What changed? Well, November 2025 is the inflection point.
Because what happened then was that several frontier LLM models and coding surfaces
crossed a threshold at the same time.
And what happened was that all of these, basically, were aimed directly
at agentic coding Workflows. Long, not short, like one-off, hey, how do you code this?
Much longer, and also the ability to use tools. Now, I'm gonna break that down for you and explain exactly what that means.
So, in terms of OpenAI and ChatGPT, they pushed AI coding way beyond autocomplete at that point.
Uh, GPT-5.1 came out, and it was much, much better, way leaps and bounds better.
And working through multi-step programming tasks.
In fact, it can now choose when to think harder,
So you don't need to manually adjust it anymore as, like, you know, normal, uh, thinking, it automatically will do that.
It knows and chooses when to answer quickly and when not, and when to use tools like the shell
to help it solve problems, which made it a lot more useful for editing files,
running commands, testing code, and fixing problems across an entire project.
Anthropic, maker of Clod, man, they have been at the forefront of this. That's why we're focusing on them tonight.
And they have pushed longer, more independent coding work, and they're clearly in the lead now.
So, Claude Opus 45, which was released about this time, was built to stay on test longer without losing the thread of what was going on.
It was specifically aimed at bigger coding tasks that take a lot of steps, not just little one, you know, functions or code snippets.
And it helped make AI feel like a collaborator that could actually keep working through a problem with you.
Now, also, Google. I'm not gonna leave Google out, you guys know I'm not the biggest Google fan, but when they do something interesting or good, I'll give them credit.
They push their AI agents that work across developer tools, especially, again, the terminal. Notice this focus on the terminal.
Google introduced a piece of software called Anti-Gravity.
Which is an AI-assisted coding tool that can work across editors, terminals, and browsers to do the job.
And again, it was transitioning to tool-using software assistance. So now, they can actually do things for you, and I'm going to show you that.
Now, I also said the coating surfaces change, so the coating surface is where you use these models.
where you use the AI tools. So, for instance, in VS Code, you might have a side panel open that VS Code… that codecs, which is made by OpenAI, or Claude is running, or you may just be using the terminal to interact with it.
or an actual app, like the Claude app or Codex, which is an app.
Uh, all of those things, those would be the coding surface, but those improved.
Because all of a sudden, they had more awareness of files, and how they worked together. They are really good at diff…
seeing diffs, and then patching much better, and in fact, using Git, they're really good now at Git.
Uh, terminal access. They're great at running tests now.
uh, repo-wide context where they can understand all the files in a repo in a project.
Uh, tighter integration with the editor, and less friction. So now, you can make a suggestion and say, what do you think? It'll come back with, uh, solutions, you can pick one, and it'll actually go ahead and do it for you.
So, let's look at some of the tooling we're talking about.
Now, let's dig into what modern AI tools can do for developers.
So, AI tools, and this is a biggie, can now understand entire codebases.
Before, you might have had to look at a file, um, or maybe two files, but now it can read across all the files in a project, in a repo, and look at multiple files at once, and understand how they relate together.
and edit those files. This was a big thing, we now have what's called a larger context window.
So the context window is the amount of information an AI can use to understand what you want and what it should pay attention to.
And I like to use the analogy, you know, several years ago, it was like we had one megabyte of RAM, and most of us remember what that was like.
And now, the contexts are much bigger. You can have up to a million tokens in some context, and that's like moving from one Mega RAM to 64GB.
In the same way, we can address a lot more on the computer once we have more RAM, the larger context allows it to
understand a lot more and work with a lot more.
AI tools can now look up things locally or on the web, and run terminal commands to perform these tasks. It's pretty amazing when you see it.
They have better, more useful built-in behavior now, so… and I'm gonna demonstrate all this to you tonight.
They will help you with planning your project, they will help you with brainstorming, and creating documentation. They will then iterate as needed throughout the project.
And they will do automatic testing for you, which is really wonderful.
And in fact, this is… I use the word agentic coding.
One of the big, big things that's now used everywhere is agents. Agents are the main… one of the major parts of this new era.
of coding. And so, an agent is an AI program that can take a goal you set,
Decide what steps to take,
And then use tools to try to complete the task. It's pretty amazing. And so, let's look at it like this. Let's say you have a goal. You want something done. You want to create a website, or you want to create an app.
Right? Or whatever. You have a goal. The agentic coding tool might be Claude Code, or OpenAI's Codex, or
Google's, uh, tool, or something else similar.
The agent is the AI working within that tool to get the job done.
And it figures out what it needs to do, what order, how to do it. Well, it may, may spawn sub-agents,
In each of those sub-agents have a specific role in completing the goal, and they report back to the agent,
called the Orchestrator,
And it keeps track of what's going on, and keeps track of the progress and what's happening to get to the point where you've completed the project. You complete the goal.
So, um,
The thing to remember, though, is agents don't always spawn sub-agents, so if you're building a web page,
are working on a function, you may very well not. They don't need sub-agents, it's not needed.
But if you're redesigning an entire website, or let's say you're debugging a large codebase with a lot of files,
Sub-agents may vary well enter into the picture.
And in fact, one of the things Dan said, and I've heard this, I told him when he told me this, I said, oh, that's a common analogy. He said, oh, I didn't know.
He said that
In the past, he felt like a musician.
Focusing on playing his instrument, okay? So, I need to edit these HTML files, I need to edit these CSS files, I need to update this JavaScript file.
And so, he would put that file into OpenAI, or Claude, and it would work on that.
Right? But he said, now, he's more like the conductor of an orchestra.
He's pointing out, this is where I want to go,
And the various agents, then, are doing the task, and he's overseeing the agents, and perhaps their sub-agents.
as they perform the task. And again, that's a common analogy many people have used.
Where the developer, or our admin, or whatever, has gone from being a musician to the conductor.
And so what happened is, now we can leverage all this tooling…
To do a wide variety of tasks. You can actually tell the AI, and again, I'm going to demonstrate this to you all tonight,
You tell the AIM model, I want to do something,
it'll go right the code to do it.
And what it's doing is, it's now filling gaps that were previously required specialists to do that.
So, in our case, we were hiring a company, we use the main CMS we use is called Concrete CMS, thanks to Craig Buchek for suggesting it about 15 years ago. We're still using it.
And, um, we used to hire a company out of Minneapolis to do some work for us,
writing add-ons and extensions for the CMS. We hardly use them anymore, because now we use Claude Code to write it up, and in fact, Gans was telling me that just the other day,
He had needed something written, and the woman we normally hire was having a really hard time doing it. She couldn't figure out how to do it.
Part of that's because concrete's documentation is spread all over the place, and a human has to kind of go into nooks and crannies and
discussion forums to look for answers and things like that.
Well, she said, I can't figure this out, guys. So, Jan's fired up Claude Code, and in about 20 minutes, he said he had it working, it had solved it, it had ingested all the documentation everywhere,
It knew what to do, and it was working.
I'm not a liar. Oh, I'm not! Oh, you're back!
You're a liar.
If I'm lying, tell me the truth!
Tell the truth.
I did not say anything about how long it took me.
Oh, I thought it did, I'm sorry.
You added that yourself.
Okay, it took him 1 minute.
One minute.
Right. No, it took a couple hours.
Okay, my apologies.
Because, you know, involved in all the… you know…
you'll find that a large amount of your time, just like working with human developers and whatnot, you do a lot of communication and planning and analysis.
And all of that kind of stuff.
And so that stuff is still involved. The actual code writing,
It goes pretty quick.
But the whole task, and the whole task is shortened significantly, obviously, but it's not like a magic wand where you, like, you know,
Read my mind and make it do what I want. You know, you still have to… you still have to.
Know what you want, know how the system works, etc. Like you said, with a conductor, a conductor is not just somebody that runs out there and waves their arms around.
They don't have to know what the they're doing.
Right? Thank you.
And so, the capper for all this stuff we're talking about is,
You just talk to it. You use natural language. You don't have any specific commands to use, we don't… you don't need a specific vocabulary or knowledge of certain syntax.
at all, you simply tell it what you want done, and it will figure out how to do it, and then during the iteration process, you can simply tell it.
I'm going to interrupt you again, Scott.
Go ahead.
Because you said words like just and whatnot. It's still… and you do have to know what to tell it, and you do need certain syntax.
Of course.
You just need to know what you're talking about. You just don't have to… you're just not confined to just that syntax.
You can use any number of descriptive ways to tell it what you want, but you still have to know what's capable,
and how to build it, and all this other kind of stuff.
Again, if you just.
Give it vague garbage, it doesn't do it, and I've seen…
I've seen you, in particular, and other people have problems getting it to do things and do it as well.
Because the way the way you construct your, your.
requests, and you're like, why is it doing that?
You'll get… you'll get the hang of it the more time you spend on it.
Absolutely.
But that's why they call him an agentic engineers and whatnot, that's, that's a job description these days.
is having some experience in working with the agents.
Okay, so…
Let's look at the big picture of AI before we jump into Claude specifically.
So I first want to talk about uses, because now the uses for this stuff's exploded.
So, I'm categorizing various AI tools in these groups here, and I could have done a lot more, but I wanted to focus on these. I think this is ones people will use.
Commonly. So, of course, let's start with just general knowledge and chatting to find out information.
So, the major players here are easily ChatGPT, Claude.ai, and Google Gemini.
So, those are the ones people, most normal people think of when they think of AI tools. They have ChatGPT installed on their phone.
or Claude installed, or maybe Google Gemini.
Um, and they ask questions, they use it for research.
Uh, things like that. Now, the interesting thing about Gemini is, you know, as you probably all know,
Apple has had a heck of a time.
Uh, with, uh, AI tools.
Uh, with their own, their own suck. They've had Siri for 15 years now, and Siri pretty much sucks.
unbelievably poorly compared to these other tools.
And Apple's been trying to develop its own, but hasn't been doing a good job, and so they made a deal with Google,
And starting this with the next version of iOS, macOS, iPadOS, etc.,
coming up this fall, uh, they're going to be integrating Google Gemini all throughout,
However, it's all gonna be running on Apple's servers, so Google doesn't have access to it, which is why I'm okay with it.
Um, Google's not gonna get access to everything, anything at all.
Apple's gonna keep them firewalled away from it.
But we're soon, hopefully, if you use an Apple device, you'll have much better Siri, much better control of your system, much more automations.
But those are the big three.
Now, we have what we call Tier 1.5, like, these are significant, they're not as big as the main ones.
Meta AI has its own, using a model called Llama,
And so, I avoid using Meta at all costs. I don't like the company at all.
Uh, but lots of people do, and so Meta AI is built into WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook, their big three.
But they also have those Ray-Ban glasses, they have Meta AI access in them as well.
And then we have Microsoft Copilot.
Now, this is true, I almost… I forgot to put the graphic on here, about 2 days ago, I saw an article online, and this guy actually went through and counted
And said, Microsoft uses the term co-pilot with 75
different services and programs.
So, co-pilots just plastered over everything. So when I say co-pilot here, I'm talking about the free consumer cat bot.
Right? And that actually runs on ChatGPT, it's free, it has web search built in.
Um, but it's okay, it's okay. Barely okay in my book.
And then we have the second tier, so DeepSeek.
is still around. It's a Chinese model that, when it was released in January of 2025, freaked everybody out.
Because it was matching ChatGPT4 performance at a fraction of the cost in compute.
Quinn by Alibaba is the world's most downloaded open-source model that runs locally.
And finally, I have to mention, uh, XAI Grok. This is Elon Musk's entry.
That's built into Shitter. Um, it has a user base due to platform integration, because…
people use shitter, and there it is, right there. And it's also used by people that don't care that it's biased, and full of child sexual abuse material.
So, there you go. That's the kind of people using XAI Grok.
Um, what about image generation? Well, one of the biggies there is mid-journey, still popular and used.
Dolly, which you can access via ChatGPT, I've used that many times.
Adobe Firefly, and Nano Banana came out several months ago.
Uh, it's… you… it's, uh, you access that via Google Gemini, and it's actually really cool, very powerful, can produce some neat stuff.
Video generation, the biggie here is that Sora was discontinued just earlier this month.
Uh, because it was costing them,
a million-plus dollars a day, but oh, less than 500,000 people were using it.
did not have adoption, but tools like Runway and Google Vio are used to generate video, and that's getting to be more and more.
Uh, audio and musical generation, we have Suno for music, and Eleven Labs will turn voice.
to, uh, turn text-to-speech.
or voice-to-speech, and do a dictation, basically.
Now, what about work automation?
Well, Claude Co-work is an aspect of Claude.
that you can use, and it's meant for more quote-unquote normal people that aren't
developers or coders, and it basically does some automation on your computer to get certain tasks done,
It integrates with Excel, for instance, and PowerPoint.
Microsoft… and there's another co-pilot… Microsoft 365 Copilot is actually supposed to be pretty good,
But it's built into my… what we used to call Microsoft Office. So, it only is good if you're completely encased in the Microsoft ecosystem.
In that case, this supposedly does a pretty good job.
And then we have other tools for productivity, like Zapier and Notion.
Then we get research and deep analysis. Well, ChatGPT is excellent at doing deep research. I've used it, I know Janz has used it.
Claude can do extensive research and deep analysis as well.
And there's a tool called Perplexity out there that is search-based, but it will do research, and it's rather controversial.
Because it does things like ignore, uh,
on websites, when people say, do not index my site, please, and it will ignore that and index it anyway.
So, they're a little controversial in that regard.
Then, I want to focus on this for just a moment.
Because I think this is gonna be the future for a lot of AI usage, and that's going to be vertical usage or industry-specific.
So, what's gonna happen is various AI tools are gonna focus
targeted on a specific industry, trained on materials from that industry.
And that's going to be more widely used by people in those industries. So, for instance…
Open evidence is an AI specifically for medical doctors. In fact, if you look at the diagram,
Down, there are 3 lines, it says NPI required. That is a physician ID number.
So, this… you have to have a physician ID number to use this tool.
It's not meant for the general public.
And what makes it… and I know doctors that use this. They actually open it up immediately and look on it.
Why? Because it's been trained on peer-reviewed research,
from sources like the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal of the American Medical Association, uh, NCCN has to do with cancer, and so on, and they're partnered with all these other very legitimate medical organizations, like the American Dental Association.
And so on, they rigorously cite
everything they produce. And so, doctors trust it, and more and more and more are using it, because it's not some general tool.
that goes to Google and searches there. It is very tightly focused and trained on actual good, known medical sources.
Uh, Bloomberg, of the Bloomberg terminals.
Uh, they have Bloomberg Intelligence that you can access. That's been trained on financial data, news, and market information.
Uh, Autodesk is, um, used by people in the architecture and construction business,
It's been trained on building code, structural data, a computer-aided design workflows,
And so, that's been useful for people involved in that industry.
And finally, I found this one really interesting, because I'm very much…
a guy that's interested in movies, and that is an organization, a company called Interpositive,
And it's meant for filmmakers. Now, a lot of Hollywood's freaking out.
Because they're worried it's going to take a lot of jobs, and what's going to happen to the whole idea of, you know, human beings creating these films. Ben Affleck,
Founded this company in 2022, it was just acquired by Netflix a few weeks ago.
It's interesting because
You… if you're a filmmaker, and you use it, it actually
trains itself on your film's existing footage.
That's what it learns from.
And then it lets filmmakers use this tool, Inner Positive, in post-production.
So they can do things like color grading, relighting shots, adding visual effects, and so on, and because it's already been trained on the footage you've filmed,
The stuff it creates is gonna fit in with that much, much, much better.
I find that fascinating.
But of course, what we're talking about tonight…
Our coding and technical tasks.
So, of these, the big three are Claude Code, which is terminal native, as you're gonna see tonight, use the terminal.
A dentic coating all the way. This is the most… I would say, it's not the most widely used out there, because, as you're going to see in the next slide,
Uh, co-pilot's the most widely used, but the reason is because
All these IT people, chuds, that only know Microsoft, where they've already… they're already paying for Microsoft,
Well, Microsoft says, oh, you can get Copilot, too, and so…
All these CTOs and IT people are shoving Copilot down the throats of developers, so it's one of the most widely used, but in a survey, only 9% of developers liked it. So they're being forced to use it, but they don't want to use it.
So, Claude Code, though, has a current 41% market share among professional developers, and it is the most liked.
That's the ones that they… that's the one that they want to use.
Now, OpenAI has introduced Codex. It can run in a GUI, or via the command line,
It's been out, not for several months, about less than 6 months, and it's growing.
But it's Cloud Code's still ahead, and then cursor is actually a very interesting
IDE based on VS Code, but completely interspersed with AI everywhere through it.
And it has around an 18% market share. It's widely used. Interestingly, you can use the built-in AI, or you can choose other models as well.
Well, that brings us to Copilot!
Well, I think Copilot for coding,
It's pretty bad. Uh, I've never been impressed by it. Uh, it's pretty much autocomplete only. It's not really agentic, and this is a damning
Damning fact, and I read this about a month ago, it turns out that Microsoft's own engineers are testing Claude code internally. They don't want to use Copilot.
So, think about it. Microsoft's own developers don't want to use the tool their company is trying to sell and forcing other companies to try to use.
They would rather use Claude code, so if that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will.
Okay, then I thought this would be particular of interest to you guys, cloud versus local.
So, most of the models we've talked about previous to this are cloud models.
But, some models are meant to be run locally, and I would actually encourage a lot of you guys to check these out. So, why run local models? Well, number one is private.
OpenAI, Claude, Google isn't getting access or seeing what you're doing.
Number two, cost. There's no API fees. It's running on your device. You don't have to pay anything.
Um, you could… you don't need an internet connection.
You can run it offline if you want.
Uh, latency, you don't have to wait for it to make a round trip to the server and then come back.
There's no rate limits. Um, Claude Code, for instance, there are limits on that.
Uh, you can be throttled at certain times. Uh, well, there's no throttling, and you can run as fast as you want on your hardware whenever you want.
Uh, regulation compliance, so if you have to deal with HIPAA laws or GDPR laws,
then you don't have to worry about that, because everything's on your machine.
Uh, you can fine-tune it and customize it, and finally, you can experiment. You can mess around with all sorts of stuff.
So, uh, it really allows you to really get your hands dirty and dig in there and mess around with things.
So, here they are. Llama, which is made by Meta, is widely used.
Uh, locally, Gemma 4 just came out from Google, like, a week or so ago.
I downloaded that and started playing with it.
It's getting very high marks.
Quinn, which is made by Alibaba, as I mentioned earlier, is the most downloaded open source model. I would definitely check that out.
Mistral is a French company that's popular in Europe.
DeepSeek is the Chinese company that caused the market panic. You can access that.
Now, once you get these, how do you use them?
We don't have time to go into great detail, but I think this is enough to get a lot of you guys started.
Olama is a CLI tool that most people use to actually run those models locally. It's what I use. It's not that hard, it's pretty easy, you can find tutorials about it online, but it's really not that complicated.
So, if you're interested in trying out these local tools, I would definitely get Olama. Now,
If you don't want to use the CLI directly, you'd feel more comfortable with a GUI. There's a company that makes a tool called LM Studio that provides a GUI, but recently…
They pulled out the core of that GUI app,
And called it LLMster, and that's CLI only, meant for servers. So, Ollama, you can not only run locally, you could run it on a server.
LLMster, you could run it on a server. And what's really cool, and I know everybody here will like this, is…
All of these tools run on Windows, Mac, and Linux. So, totally available to everybody to mess around with this stuff.
Now, but there's one thing you need to know. So, all the tools I mentioned, can you download and run them locally? Absolutely.
Can you use it commercially? Most of them are built with an Apache 2.0 license, yeah!
Can you see exactly how they were built? Are they really open source? Nope.
Nope. Mistral is the closest one.
But Google Gemma? That's not open source.
They're not gonna let you see exactly how it was built. So, they're available, but don't expect them to be completely transparent, because they're not.
Okay, model tiers.
Let's look at this real quick, because when people say claud, when people say OpenAI, it's more complicated than that.
Because every AI has model tiers. So, OpenAI is famous for the… they have horrible names.
For the various versions of their AI tools.
horrible. So, Mini and Nano are the ones that are always super fast, super cheap, really small.
Um, they're suitable for very quick stuff and easy stuff, but they're not gonna be good for a vented coating in any way.
Uh, GPT-53 is the default.
If you are using CareGPT for free,
You are using GPT-5.3, you get 10 messages every 5 hours before it drops you down to the mini model.
GPT-54 thinking does a lot deeper reasoning and deeper thinking. Uh, it's available at paid tiers only, which I'm going to get to in a moment.
And then ChatGPT54 Pro is the most powerful, it's, like, the most expensive.
Anthropic is real easy. Anthropic is very stable with its names, it's super easy.
Haiku, Sonnet, Opus. Haiku is the fast and cheap model. Sonnet is balanced, it's very good, I use it a lot. Opus is the most powerful.
Um, I was talking with Jans the other day about this, and I said, so, do you use Opus just a few… a little bit at the time? And he said, no, right? Correct me if I'm wrong. Uh, I believe you said you use it almost all the time.
Because you wanted the greater thinking ability and reasoning ability,
that it has, is that correct?
I use Opus…
all the time for doing work stuff.
But, since I'm running just a little over 25 to.
28% of the…
Of the usage.
Well, when you look at the pricing and stuff like that, um…
I'm getting to that.
I'm up, I'm between the $100 and $200 tier mark.
So I have lots of extra room, so I just use it all the time.
Yep. Okay, so Google has Flash, which is the fast and cheap small model, Pro, and Ultra.
which is the most powerful. Now, this is kind of interesting.
Unfortunately, again, I don't use Google.
for search. I quit using them a long time ago.
When people search Google, and Google's shoving AI answers down everybody's throat now,
You have no idea which model of these Google used. You have no idea if it was Flash or Pro, maybe it was Ultra?
Maybe? You have no idea.
I want to contrast that with Kagi.
I've actually talked to you guys before about Coggy Search. I… and Janz uses it too, and I think it's truly the best search engine you can use today.
Uh, it's far better than Google in many, many ways, and one of the many ways has to do with AI integration.
Because a lot of people don't want AI answers.
They just want the traditional 10 blue links.
Well, Kagi only provides AI answers if you explicitly ask, or if your query ends with a question mark.
Which I love, so I'll put Aquarium, and if I want an AI answer from Kagi, I'll put a question mark at the end. If I don't, I don't get it.
And what makes Kagi interesting is that you can choose which model you want to use.
So, here, I went into the Coggi settings for the Assistant, that's what they call their AI tool.
And by default, it's gonna use what Coggi calls the Quick Assistant, the Quick
model that's built in, and I actually have quite good luck with that.
But, if you start scrolling down there, you can use Quinn. You can use OpenAI, you can use DeepSeek, you can use Google, you can use Grok if you want, and Mistral.
And so on. So, you can choose different models to be used, and it remembers the last one you used.
So how do you use it? Okay, so earlier today, I went to Kagi, and I typed in, what is Slug?
And it came back. Salute can refer to a few different things. Notice, we're number one. St. Louis Unix Users Group.
Awesome! Uh, and then it gave some others. Now, if you scroll down a little bit…
Okay? It says you can continue an assistant. In other words, you can ask questions back…
about the results. And I actually don't use this all the time, but I have used it, and it's incredibly useful.
So, it gives you a couple of sample questions. So, I clicked on, what is the St. Louis Unix Users Group?
Or I could have typed in a follow-up question there.
And it came back, and after a few seconds, it gave me a much more complete description
of the St. Louis Unix Group, and seems quite accurate to me.
And if you scroll down, it gives you references, but on the very bottom there,
Where I circled quick, that's where you can change the model. So you can either do it in settings, or you can change it after a query.
And so, when I click on it, again, the one it's currently using is the QUIC model built in to Kaggy.
Over on the side, they tell you quality speed, privacy, when it was last updated.
But, if you click on Models…
It shows you the ones they recommend, but you can scroll down and just start looking at any other ones you want.
So, like, you know what? We recommend Kimmy.
It has this quality, this speed, this privacy. Some of these you may have to subscribe to, like OpenAI, the more advanced models.
Or, uh, if you click on Web Search, you don't… you can say, look, I'm actually not looking for stuff about the web, could you just look on forums?
Could you just look at academic sources?
Oh, can you just look at programming sources?
And so on. So, again, the way Kaggy does it is so intelligent and gives you so much more freedom,
I wanted to bring that up to everybody.
Okay, we also have a difference between free and paid.
So, paid is better than free,
If you want real usage and fewer limitations.
So, I mean, within a couple of hours of me using ChatGPT the first time,
I immediately subscribed, because I could see this is something I want to use a lot.
Uh, I don't want as many limitations and restrictions. I've been very happy about that. As you heard, and you're gonna see in a minute, JANs is paying the more expensive models for Claude because of the amount he uses it.
So, ChatGPT has a free version. It also includes ads, and I hate ads.
They introduced a new version a few months ago called Go. It's only $8 a month, and it includes ads.
So, you get more than 3, but you don't get as much if you use the $20 a month plus plan, which is what I've been using forever.
It introduces… it includes, rather, the use of the Codex coding tool,
which I've used extensively. It's ad-free.
And then for $200 a month, you get the pro plan, that's everything in Plus, plus unlimited usage.
Now, I'll be honest with you guys, I've only hit the plus usage a couple of times, where it was like, okay, dude, you need to slow down.
in months and months and in years.
So, that plus is pretty available.
Um, but if you're using it, you know,
Every moment of the day, okay, $200 a month.
Now, they also have an API. All of these have API usage. They are billed per million tokens, all of them do that.
And you can see the API pricing here. So, 40 a cents for every million tokens you put in.
$1.60 for every million tokens you send out, and it goes up from there.
Anthropic Claude Claude has a free tier.
Then, the pro tier is either 20 a month or $204 annually. That includes access to Claude Code and Claude Co-Work.
Or, the max plan has two different levels.
$100 a month gets you 5 times the usage of the pro plan, or $200 a month gets you 20 times the usage.
And you get everything in Pro, plus priority access, so…
If there's slowdowns or things like that, you get priority access.
They have an API also, uh…
There are the prices for that. Now, Jan said he's paying above $100 a month.
And, um, he… so he does the max plan at $100 a month,
But he is spending more because of API expenses.
And recently, he built this really, really cool website for his dad to manage his lock collection.
His dad has thousands?
of locks, Jans? I don't know, hundreds at least.
Oh, yeah, he has probably about 1100 locks and then total items, many, many more keys and that kind of stuff, so…
Right, and he's had this collection for decades, and Jan's made him, with Claude, a beautiful website tool he can use to manage
The locks. And if we have time, maybe you could show it to them.
Sure.
And one of the features is, is that he has a tool in there that says,
Go look up information about this lock, and fill in the description part.
And it works great. He showed it to me, his dad loves it. It's making things very easy for him.
Uh, Jan's demoed it to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said every single time you run that, that's about 50 cents.
I actually put a price tracker on it, now I can show you, and it varies, but yeah, okay, you can save 50 cents.
Well, that's what you said to me.
So, that's an example right there of the API use. Now,
Again, how much time is he saving? You're saving…
vast amounts of time.
So, I know 50 cents a query might seem expensive, but compare that to the
potentially hours you would spend on every single lock, and I've seen the quality of the information it provides, and it's excellent.
It includes citations and so on.
Uh, Google Gemini?
Uh, if you use the free version, your data is being used for training.
If you pay $20 a month, you can get Gemini 3. If you pay Gemini AI Ultra,
It's $125 a quarter, so $500 a year.
And that gets you video generation credits, maximum capabilities.
This is the interesting thing.
They have the cheapest major API available, Flashlight at 10 cents per million tokens in, and $0.40 per million tokens out.
So, that's pretty darn good. Now, it is the flashlight, so it's not gonna have all the…
you know, power of the others, but for simple stuff…
This is ridiculously cheap.
Okay, so that's the landscape. We're talking about.
Now we're gonna build.
So, let's talk about that. Let me get this…
Stupid.
There we go. So I'm gonna move Keynote out of the way.
So we can focus on what we're gonna do.
Okay. So…
What we're gonna do is we are going to build…
a world clock carousel.
And so, Jan spent some time…
Earlier today, or maybe yesterday, too,
Uh, coming up with the requirements document.
And so, what I'm gonna start with is, we're gonna start… let me pull my terminal down here for you guys.
So here's my terminal F.
We've reduced the size of this, we don't need all of that.
And so, we… I'm in my folder on my Mac, where we put
developer projects and things like that.
And so, yes?
Scott, Stan had a question about tokens in and tokens out on the API.
Go ahead.
Go ahead and answer.
Go ahead.
His question is, his question is, what does it mean tokens in and tokens out? I don't know, I don't know the answer to that.
Um, well, a token…
as I've read, varies, but it's kind of like a word.
is how I've always seen the simple explanation.
So, the actual use… meaning of the token is different.
But, tell you what…
Let's do this.
I'm going to…
Um, fire up.
plug the app.
Hey, Scott returns!
What exactly…
is a token.
I should have put Stan wants to know.
Basic unit text, not words, tokens!
Uh, okay, I was wrong. Uh, breaks text into chunks that are easier for a model to handle mathematically.
Common short words, there you go, are usually one token.
Longer or rarer words get split.
Punctuation and spaces are often their own tokens. Numbers can be tokenized.
So, a rough rule of thumb, one token equals around 3 quarters of a word in English, or about 4 characters.
So 1,000 tokens is roughly 750 words.
Cadence?
So, Scott, I think… I think he was asking about what's the difference between tokens in and tokens out, not what token is.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were asking what a token is.
Um, token zip.
Actually, both works, you know, in and out, what it is.
Okay. Well, a token in is what you would…
And you explain. You've shown me there that I figured you'd get to that part. So good.
Yeah. So, a token in would be your typing instructions, you're telling it, look at these files,
you know, scan this project, those would be tokens in, tokens out would be what it's giving you.
How it's responding, let's do it.
Thank you. Okay, so…
Great. That's a great explanation. Thank you.
Um, Vans created a requirements document, which I'm going to show you guys.
And you're gonna be, again, when Jan said earlier in this talk, when he talked about Hell how much time you spend setting up the requirements,
You can't just say, hey, build this and expect it to magically build it for you. You're gonna see what's involved in that sort of document.
So, as I… go ahead.
Craig pointed out that Tokens in would also be from its search tool for if it went out and grabbed information from the web and pulled more information in to process your request.
That would be tokens in, and then, of course, it's going to generate a response, and that'd be tokens out.
Right. So, uh, we are going to be creating a tool that's going to create a world clock.
It's gonna show you the time in your current…
Uh, time zone, but they're just gonna show others throughout the world. You'll be able to move it, swipe it back and forth.
and see, uh, various times in different places.
So, the very first thing we do is we create a folder,
for, uh, our world clock.
And I'm gonna CD in it. And now, I'm going…
So, hold on, so that's really important.
Go ahead.
So, Cloud Code is project-based.
And it defines the crop project by what directory it's in.
And if that directory
Is a GitHub repo, and if there's a Claude MD file, so we're going to do all those things.
Yep. Okay, let me, um…
get to that folder…
And I'll show you guys what I'm dropping in there.
Okay. So, earlier today,
Jans made a requirements document.
And I just dropped it into that folder.
using the GUI. Alright?
So, if I do an LS, there's the markdown, and by the way, markdown is used by all of these tools extensively.
For input, output, so if you're going to be doing this, you gotta learn Markdown. Fortunately, Markdown's not that difficult.
As you guys should know. So, let's take a look at the document. Now, I'm not gonna read you every aspect of this.
I'd be happy to make the document available to you guys afterward if you want to study it.
So, Janice, why don't you walk us through this document, since you're the one that created it?
Right, so I just came up with the idea of doing a little project to do a world clock web app.
created this markdown document, just, you know, the file.
And then started typing in it, you know, what I was thinking.
You know, world clock, I'm thinking I'll do a carousel 24 world clocks, one for each time zone.
Um, show an analog clock with a digital clock below it, and label a sit…
A prominent city in that area, use an emoji.
flag for, you know, I just kind of…
put all my thoughts together.
in no super organized fashion.
Of course not. No, no, no, no.
And you weren't this detailed, right? Like, you weren't writing out all of these sentences.
And you didn't make that table.
No. No.
Right? Or did you? No.
Okay, that's what I thought.
No, I did not. No.
And so, so I wrote up my stuff, and then I said, you know, then I popped over to Claude, because I'm working on this in a, in a
in VS Code is what I was using to type in my…
My markdown.
When I popped over to Claude, it was in the same directory and said, hey,
Um, working on these requirements.
Take a look and clean this up for me. And so that's what it did, is it kind of organized the stuff, and then from there, I would just type a little bit and expand on it,
Then ask it, um, say, hey, you know, build a.
Build a table that has all these.
Nice. Some asshole joined the… joined it in his, uh…
Showing porn, we need to click that asshole out.
Is anybody else seeing this?
said Brian B, but that's not me doing it.
I can… well, I could see it, but… Seems to be gone now.
Okay, cool.
Alright, go ahead, James.
Okay. So anyway, yeah, just pretty much just like to be writing it up yourself.
But then when you get to the parts that would take you a bunch of time to format and
Word out, you just ask for a little bit of help. If you don't like what it says, you fix it and change it.
Etc.
Now,
Just loop over it a few times, and you have it set a basic requirements.
Now, I want to…
Like, and it did, it would, it filled in some things that I didn't want. It said this, this would be nice, I'm like, no, this is what we, we, I definitely want this.
etc.
Now, I want you guys to notice what Jan said.
He had the terminal open,
With Claude.
Hang on a second, Scott, you'll need to reshare.
Oh, right?
If there was a way to prevent that.
You can't prevent other people from sharing their screens?
Apparently not.
Okay, so everybody sees the screen now? We all good?
Okay, so, um…
I want you guys to remember what Jan said. So, he had clawed open in a terminal,
In the folder where he was, with the requirements doc he was working on,
He had VS Code open to the same folder, and the file opened.
And that way, he could see what was happening in BS code to the file as Claude was changing it.
But that meant he could also edit the file manually.
And then tell Claude, hey, by the way, I just updated the file.
go take a look. And so, it wasn't just where he was in the terminal only and letting it go free without involving himself in it.
He had it also opened in his IDE, VS Code, and was viewing the file and watching what was happening there.
So I think that's important.
Of course, if you'd prefer to use Vim or whatever, you can just do it directly in the terminal.
Of course.
Right.
you know, just right away. By the way, uh, Craig asked about, uh…
CMUCs, we should… we should tell Craig about CMUCs.
Go ahead.
CMUCs is a ghosty, um…
Based.
Implementation, you know, Ghosties at its base.
Have you ever heard of Ghostie?
Yes.
G-H-O-S-T-T-Y.
And terminal.
That's a terminal emulator that I just started using, it's pretty good.
Yeah, it's really nice. So this is Ghosty with extra stuff.
And it's just a multiplexing for.
And I think the C is probably for Claude.
And the whole idea is that you have workspaces, and each workspace can have panes and tabs.
So I'll have, I'll have.
CMUX open with, you know, 8 workspaces, and each workspace has multiple tabs and panes in it.
And it can… and it has an integrated browser, so you can say, open,
Open this in a tab, you know, open this in a tab, or open this in a pane,
And it's the same thing for markdown renderer.
Scott, do you have the CMUX skills installed?
I'm… no, I don't think I do.
Okay, I'll show you how to do that, because then Claude can control CMUX, and you can just say, hey.
Nice, okay.
You can say, open this markdown file, and it'll know that when you say to open a markdown file, it opens it up in a tab.
Nice. So you can see the tabs here, the workspaces.
Yeah, it might even work, I mean, try, tell, tell Claude to open that markdown file to view it.
And the world thought. Go back.
Uh, why don't we get to that in a little bit? Let's get to that in a little bit, okay?
Okay, that's fine.
Um, but anyway, yes, it's a very nice terminal emulator. You've got your workspaces, and for instance, here, you've got multiple tabs.
Oh, Craig, one of the super nice things also is that it has system notification. This is Mac only, by the way.
It has system notifications so that when Claude is done with something, it'll beep, or show a little…
Um, toast, and it will, you know, like, flash itself and that kind of stuff, so that if you're running multiple agents with like a.
I'm doing a lot, then, you know, it'll say, hey, I'm done. I want to talk to you.
I need permissions.
Now, Ghosty is both a program, a terminal program, and a library. CMUX is using the Ghosty library.
Um, but I want you guys to notice, it's ready to run for macOS. There are packages, or you can build from source for Linux.
So that's Ghost E. CMUX took the Ghosti library and built a bunch of stuff on top of it.
But Ghosty's quite nice.
Yeah.
Okay, so this is a requirements document.
that Jan's made. Uh, notice he has some layout.
things in here, about what he wants it to look like,
What is gonna happen? Uh, and then he wants highlighting.
He gives information about the analog clock face, and what he wants that to look like.
Day and night clock face theming. So, by default…
When you create this, if it's nighttime, where that time zone is, it's gonna be a dark clock,
If it's currently day, where that time zone is, it's going to be a light clock, and that goes into detail about that at the bottom.
Uh, notice here, he tells you what he wants to display under each clock face.
Uh, what the, uh, layout and styling is gonna be.
Notice the fourth bullet is mobile-first, responsive layout, should work as well on phone screens.
and desktop. He gives some very smart tech constraints.
This is a single HTML file with inline CSS and JavaScript. There's no build step, don't overcomplicate this.
Use vanilla.js,
You could even pull that out, Scott, if you wanted to, you could yank that section out and…
Talk to… talk to Claude about making recommendations, but this seems simple for tonight.
Yeah. And then he has stuff in here that's out of scope.
So, you know, this is stuff you might think about doing, we don't need to worry about it.
And success criteria.
Okay, this is what it should look like.
And this means you did a good job, and the project is working.
So real basic, you know, requirements overview for building an app, the same stuff.
You might write up to discuss with the developer.
and hash out details.
Right. But keep in mind, Janz did not just write all that out himself,
He wrote out the basics, and then by interacting with Claude, and you're gonna see why Claude is good at this…
He was able to generate this requirements document. And in fact, that's what I'm in the middle of doing.
right here, see? It's waiting for me to answer questions.
But I gave it a goal, and it's been going through the process like this.
It's currently asking clarifying questions, and then once that's done, it can keep going.
Okay. So…
But you keep using the word generate, Scott, and it definitely did not generate those requirements document.
No, I didn't say generate, edited.
Okay, edited the document. Okay, so, we know the…
I mean, you could say, hey, generate a requirements document for a world clock, and that's it.
And it would, and it would do it, it would attempt to do that.
Right. But it may or may not be…
But that was, that one was not generated.
Okay, so we are now gonna, uh…
Get into Claude. Now, there's actually a command, Claude.
Okay? Janz and I made an alias.
for it. He gave me the alias, actually.
Um, and that is the… that is the alias, so CLD, because by God, we're not going to type any vowels.
Hell no. And so, uh, when we do claud, CLD, it goes claud dangerously skipped permissions,
and Claude R, C-L-D-R, means resume from where you were.
Now, we're going to talk about dangerously skipped permissions, or is now a good time, Janz? Do you want to talk about that?
Go ahead.
That's fine. It has a very complex and detailed granular.
permission structure that you can tell that every time it wants to do something, and it has a ton of tools that it can.
do all kinds of different things that everyone… every time he uses one of those tools, it'll ask you,
If you want to allow it to do that.
And you can say yes, no, or always allow this particular usage of this tool. And it's not just whether it uses the tool, it's exactly how it's using the tool.
And you can say, yes, no, or always allow you to use the tool this way.
Um, after a certain amount of time, I think most people that use… use these systems,
And, um, get comfortable in them, we'll just stop using that entirely.
People that I know that are using it do this also.
Because it's like, well, once you have your…
Scaffolding your infrastructure and your comfort level up.
Um, it's just too much of a hassle to keep telling it, yes, do this.
And if you put things in place in your real projects so that you can roll back, like, one of the things that I do,
is I have it constantly commit stuff and, you know, I have
staging servers and all this other kind of stuff, so that I can roll back.
And, you know, fine.
Yeah. Yep, uh, it will drive you insane after a while, uh, because…
Every little thing it does with Git, it'll go, shut, can I do this?
Yes, always do this, or no?
Um, and then the next thing it doesn't get, that's slightly different, can I do this?
And you will go insane. It's like having a toddler around. It will constantly pester you about the same thing over and over and over if you let it.
And so, eventually, once you're comfortable and you get sick of it, you're just like, you know what, just do it. Don't ask me, just do it.
Okay, so I'm gonna…
If it's not the same thing, it's slight differences on everything.
Okay. So…
I noticed the first time you go to a new folder and start Claude, it wants you to say, okay, do you trust
This project folder, are you cool with this? Yes, I trust it.
And I am now in Cloud Code.
And this is the interface
or clawed code. Okay?
So, a couple of things about this.
If you type a slash, these are how you access various commands and aspects
of Cloud Code. If you start typing,
letters, it filters it down.
And so, one of the first things you're probably going to want to do…
is install some plugins.
So, if I go to plug in there, slash plugin…
It says, okay, here are plugins, there's 130, as you can see there, available.
And you can go down, and you can, you can…
Click, uh, enter for details.
And see what's there. Okay. Oh, okay, code access. Agent that simplifies and refines code for clarity, consistency, and maintainability.
Okay, cool. Or, I can say, go back to the plugin list.
Then, you can go to Installed. These are the ones I have installed.
Okay? And these are ones we would recommend you install.
So, context 7.
Uh, Jance, you know more about these than I do. Uh, Context 7…
As you can see there, looks up documentation.
So, it knows that, oh, there are coding in Rust, I better go look at the Rust documentation.
So I know how to use this most effectively.
And so on. So, I already have that installed.
Um, and Lance, you said… could you tell them how, when the plug-ins get invoked?
the plugins get invoked when they're needed.
Or when you ask for them using natural language, you know.
So if you say a synonym or something that it thinks that this plugin would be appropriate for,
It'll use it, and it'll tell you which plugins it's using, and if it doesn't use a plugin, then you can tell it specifically. No, no, look this up in Context 7.
or use your skill creator skill to do this.
You know, but you should just see them get invoked in appropriate ways.
If it invokes a skill inappropriately, which I don't think I've ever seen,
I think it's always the other way around, that it skips to use… it forgets to use a skill,
or doesn't use it, then, um…
You can tell. Yeah.
You could stop it. You could escape it anytime and tell it to stop.
Yep. Uh, Playwright is one if you're doing web development. It actually opens a browser up, and it can control the browser. It uses it for testing or for demonstrations.
That's really nice to have.
The puppeteer.
Now, let's talk about superpowers, because this is one that's incredibly recommended, I think, by JANs and many, many, many, many others.
Um, go ahead and talk about that for a sec.
Yeah, so Superpowers is a big set of skills.
that essentially establishes methodology for doing lots of common coding tasks and workflows.
Um, it used to have a lot more in it that has gotten integrated directly into Claude. Superpowers was a.
Official Claude.
plug-in, um…
But other people were wanting to contribute to it so much, they spun it off.
And and now they have a wider group that's contributing to it, but Claude will then roll stuff in.
So, for instance, initially subbed agents were all handled
and invoked by superpowers, and now that's built right into.
into Claude. I'm sorry, I should say Claude code. Every time I say Claude, I really should be saying Claude code.
Um, but that's what it is. So superpowers is a whole bunch of different.
Markdown skills. All a skill is, is its guidance on how to do something.
It's a set of instructions in normal.
language written in Markdown that says, these are the things that you need to do when you do this. And so, like I said,
It's methodology. Skills have become very much methodology. Hey,
For brainstorming, you do this. You read this, you ask these questions, you follow up with that, you take notes, whatever,
And then it moves on. So writing plans, writing skills…
Sorry, when they say writing skills, we're talking about writing Claude skills.
executing plans, etc. All of those things.
Yep. So, it's one you definitely want, because it does so much.
And when I say builds it into Claude, Claude, one of the big things about Claude code is not the model, it's the…
They call the harness. It's all this… all this stuff.
that Claude Code does. If you ever want to check it out,
They have really good documentation. Just say how Claude code works, and they walk you through all the little pieces, hooks,
and tools, and how all of these things are invoked, and how it works.
It's probably more than we didn't want to go into tonight.
But good reading, and it's really well written.
I bet Claude helped him.
Now, one thing that's very important, though, is you'll notice that Context 7 is coming from the Claude Plugin's official
marketplace that's built in.
Um, there is a Super Powers available in Claude Plugins Official. Do not use it.
Instead, you want to go to the marketplace,
And you want to search for, or add, rather, superpowers-marketplace.
You do not want to use the one built into Claude Plugins Official. You want, because it's old, you want to use the one that's available in Superpowers Marketplace, so you need to go to Marketplace.
Look at your marketplaces, Scott.
I mean, these two?
Um, right, uh…
It's OBRA, that O-B-R-A. That's the thing to look for, yeah.
So, search for Ed Marketplace.
You know, you see it right there, so Obero Superpowers Marketplace.
Oh, Oprah's, yeah.
Yeah.
So, search for OBRA, not superpowers Marketplace.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay. So, you click on Add Marketplace, you type OBRA, you add that Marketplace, and now we can get plugins from two sources, the Claude Plugins Official,
or superpowers Marketplace.
So, we definitely recommend that.
Hold on, I'm trying to get this…
stupid, uh, zoom bar. Okay, so that's plugins.
Jan's any others we should talk about real quick?
Yeah.
Plugins? No, I would say just keep your plugins pretty lean. Don't put a bunch of plugins thinking, oh boy, this is going to be really, really powerful.
The more plugins they add, the more context you eat up.
More is not necessarily better. You want it to be appropriate to what you're doing.
That's right.
Now, let's talk about config for a minute, because you click on that, and these are configurations.
that you can make for the, um, Hell Clawed acts, what it does.
So, for instance, Auto Compact, periodically, it'll go…
We're getting a lot of conversation here, let's compact that to reduce it, and it'll do that for you. So you want that on.
One that…
It has to do that once it runs out of context for your current conversation and task.
But one Jans pointed out today that we might want to do tonight is, for output style, you have
Oops, I hit the wrong…
You need the spacebar Scott, but before you do that, you should run init.
Okay. So, we're in the folder.
I'm gonna run init, and that's gonna initialize a new CloudMD file.
ClaudeMD is the markdown file that Claude looks for to understand how it's going to do things.
So, you click it…
It's very funny, by the way, notice it comes up with quite funny terms.
juliening, and so on.
So, you can read what it… it tells you what it's doing.
Okay, it created a 58-line…
ClaudeMD file.
Okay? And there you go.
Now, I'll show you the document.
See what it says up there, Scott? I mean, read from the top.
The project only has a requirements file, no code's been written yet, the CloudMD
That's kind of…
should document what's being built and key constraints.
It rode 58 lines.
QuotMD, and then it describes down below there, since the project only has requirements and no code,
The file documents, the single file constraint, why it matters, how to run it,
The intended architecture, so future sessions can build it consistently, and the full clock data table for quick reference.
Right, and so that's just feedback for you.
So the only thing it did is write the Claude MD file. Now, I would also, anytime you're doing a Claude project, just make sure that it gets set up, so you can just tell it, you know,
Initialize this project as a Git repo.
you know, just tell it, you know, make this a git repo.
Want me to go ahead and do that?
Sure.
Done. So, just…
Of course.
Right, and so, I mean, you can do that yourself, you know, you could do that at command line, but, you know, and you see what it did also.
Now let's go ahead and turn on that explanatory mode.
Alright. And that was… uh, con-config.
And let's go down here to Output Style, and hit Spacebar. So, these are the three ways Klob will communicate with you. By default, it uses the default one.
Janz was suggesting we use the explanatory communication style.
Why'd you choose that, Jans, for this?
Well, because it explains what's going on.
Okay, perfectly for what we're doing tonight.
I mean, there you go.
You know, you would also use this if you're trying to learn stuff. Learning puts it one further, where it will flag stuff for human coding.
And it'll do stuff and say, hey, human, you do this part.
Yep, ask you to write small pieces of code for hands-on practice, which is pretty cool.
Alright, that's config.
We are in the project. I did want to show you guys…
Um…
Robert asked about how do you install Claude?
Ah! Good question.
We had that in the plan, I don't know what, what happened to that, Scotty.
I didn't have time to put it in here, because we had little time.
Uh, go to claw.ai.
Okay? And go to Cloud Code, is that correct, James?
I don't know, I just… I searched Kagi for install Claude and get the… it's just a curl command.
Yeah.
It just runs a script, it's just a bash script.
to install it.
Yup. It should give it to us right here, I believe.
It's taken a long time.
Okay, right there.
That's all you do. Copy that, run it.
There you go.
And it goes, and now you have Claude Code available.
Good question. Okay.
So, um…
Let me…
Uh, I want to show you guys
that…
Um, what that document it made looked like.
So, let's look at Claude.
Indeed.
Why did you go to a different workspace, Scott? That's weird.
You want me to do it right from in there?
That's what, that's what CMUX is for.
So, less…
Oh, tab it. New tab.
No. Yeah, just open up open a few tabs.
Right, okay, whatever.
That's the tool, man.
So, there's the CloudMD file, it's added.
Why is it doing that?
Okay, I have no idea.
Why, when I type less, it's doing that.
Okay, I'll cat it, what the hell?
There you go.
Oh, you have some…
filter that's trying to, um…
render the markdown nicer than just text.
Oh, got it.
Um, but you're probably missing the…
Yep. Okay, so this is the CloudMD file that it just generated. You just saw… you just saw it generate. There's the description of the project. Here are the tech constraints.
Okay.
It looks like it mostly just copied the markdown file right in.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which is fine for now.
It looks pretty… yeah.
Okay. So, back to where we are.
So, Claudium… so Claude MD, really what it's for is that when you… when you start Claude in this app, it reads that into context, so it knows what's going on in this project without you having to tell it every time.
Um, and so what it has in there right now is fine.
Okay? Okay.
We're ready to actually start, and so we wrote this out ahead of time.
So, help me plan and brainstorm this single-page web app.
C at World Clock Carousel for the initial requirements. I better put an MD at the end of that, or is that enough?
No, I… you should probably shouldn't have pasted that in. But anyway, go ahead.
Okay. Because you want me to type it out?
Well, yeah, when you start doing the app, like I said, it'll autocomplete.
Right. Let me get rid of that.
Okay…
Okay. So, initial requirements… I should have done the app here.
Nevermind.
Go back, I think that'll do it, and there you go.
There you go. And, uh, I'll leave it at the end, whatever, it shouldn't matter.
Okay, so there's the file for the initial requirements. Don't forget to use the writing, HTML, and CSS custom skill.
Talking about skills, this is one I believe you created, is that correct?
Yeah, I did it, it's just a style skill.
Just saying, hey, this is how I prefer you to write HTML and CSS.
Okay. Go.
Okay, notice it loaded the Super Powers Brainstorming skill, because we said we want to brainstorm.
And notice it loaded the writing HTML CSS skill, because we mentioned that.
Thinking, thinking, thinking…
And you didn't have to put that right in HTML and CSS skill in this initial prompt, either.
You can just tell it to do it, and at some point in time, say, you know, I don't see that you mentioned this in the…
In the.
Plans, you know, be sure to include that.
Okay? So, notice what it says.
Some of what we're working on might be easier to explain if I can show it to you in a web browser.
Mockups, diagrams, comparisons, other visuals,
Uh, want to try it? And I'm gonna say…
Yes.
Okay.
So, it's gonna open my browser.
Would one of my browsers somewhere.
We'll see what it does.
We'll see.
Okay, it says it's completed the first two steps.
Note, it's now on.
And notice it's telling you how many tokens it's using? Do you see that?
So it tells you how long it's been working, and how many tokens it's used, and what, you know, it's thinking.
We're currently at step 3, so it's looking through everything and thinking, hmm, what questions should I ask to understand this better?
Well, that was nice of it to add a file to my gitignore for the project.
Okay, open local host…
In your, in your browser…
Let's do that…
Put that open one moment…
I've never seen this before, by the way.
There you go.
That's what I got a little while ago in the other one.
Boom!
Alright, so let's go back to this.
So, question 1 of 4.
You'll see 3 color palette accent options, each showing a mini clock car with the accent color applied to the second hand and the
Home Clock Top Border Treatment.
Uh, do you want to go with Cool Blue?
Warm Ember, or slate and teal, click one to select.
Alright, so let's go here.
Which one do you guys want? Do you guys want cool blue, warm amber, or slate and teal?
By the way, you don't have to choose any of those, Scott, you could just…
Of course.
prompt right back in there, I'm like, no, no, I don't want any of these, I'm thinking much more of a, you know, whatever.
Well, because your monitor's not very good, I guess.
How can we all look the same?
Because Zoom is compressing it.
You can't.
If you look right here, right here…
The hands are different colors.
There's also a different… different shade in the background.
Yeah, different background shades, pretty subtle.
It's pretty.
But not on the other side.
Do you want me to tell it? Let's make it more obvious?
Okay.
So that'll be interesting to see what from that prompt, but I would have said make the color differences more obvious, but…
Okay.
It might make them bigger.
Still thinking.
Oh, just updated some code.
That's more obvious.
Yeah, same colors, no, no, it did not change the color differences, but it certainly made them.
You guys want me to do it again and say, increase the color differences?
Well, the second hands are definitely different colors now.
Okay, if you guys are happy with that…
Which one do we want? I'm gonna go with warm amber, unless somebody says,
or a member okay?
Okay, that's what we're doing. So notice it said click on it.
So I clicked on it, let's see what it did.
Um…
Okay, it told me what it did. So, clicking on it didn't do a thing, except show me what it looks like.
So I'm gonna go back here and say, warm amber.
Okay? Great choice!
approve of what I'm doing.
Next question. The requirements list several options for how to visually distinguish the home clock. Let me show you the realistic options side by side.
The realistic options…
Let's see what we get…
Yep. Not unrealistic offense.
I wanna see unrealistic options.
Realistic options.
Well, it might have used negative colors.
that don't exist.
It has certain words it loves to use, like the word quality.
This has this, it has this quality.
Okay. So, question 2 of 4, 3 home clock highlight treatments, each shown with neighboring cards for context.
Amber top border and shadow, amber background tint plus home icon.
Larger scale and amber left border.
Okay. So, do we want that for our home?
or that…
or that.
What do you guys like? So here we got the border on top.
Right? The, uh…
the word home, along with New York. Here they put the home icon by New York, I don't like that as much.
Here, they put the amber border on the side.
20% bigger than its neighbors.
You like that first one?
Okay? But is that okay with everybody?
Okay? Let's go with A.
Glant?
You know, Scott, you could tell it. Yeah, I clicked.
Oh yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I clicked and nothing's happening.
You don't even have to tell it that. Okay, I clicked.
But it's kind of in the middle of something now, it's too late now.
But I can go ahead and send it.
Sure. Um…
Okay, one more visual question.
What's that?
Is happening to the word? It's happened to the word?
It is now.
It is now. It'll know what I mean.
It'll have no… it has very little problem with spellings.
I guess.
Or typos in this case, because I know how a spell happened.
Right. So, by the way, doing something like that can interrupt its work.
Yeah, I've noticed it in chat.
If you do that while it's in the middle of doing some stuff and it can, it can, uh.
Slow things down for you, it usually can recover, but you can do a slash BTW to
Right, by the way. That's what I should have done.
To say, you know, put something in there and then it will not interrupt itself.
So, the click just highlights your selection in the browser as a visual record. You still tell me here in the terminal.
Okay.
Sorry, that wasn't clear! Okay, question 3 of 4. Day versus night clock.
Face side, side-by-side for 3 darkness levels. Soft Navy, deep midnight, Slate Charcoal,
Which nighttime face do you prefer?
If you tell it.
also deal with colorblind colors.
something that it needs to run.
Okay.
Better yet, you should have a skill that tells it to you without you having to tell it every time.
Yep, absolutely.
Yeah, right? Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Okay, what do people think?
I don't see a huge bit of difference, to be honest.
Anybody? Got a choice?
Okay, we'll go with 2.
Okay? Uh, go back, Kevin.
When did it decide to add the numbers to the clock face? They weren't there earlier.
Prove it.
Here.
Yeah, I don't have a picture from earlier.
So…
Yeah, earlier I noticed there was no numbers on the clock faces.
Yeah. That didn't matter for what it was doing there.
Okay.
Who knows why it didn't have numbers on there? I was interested to see, see what it's going to put on here.
Okay, we said we prefer deep midnight B.
That was question 3 of 4.
Okay…
What type of Linux am I running? I'm on a Mac.
Can I get that clock face and camera cornflower blue? We could!
Alright, let me push a waiting screen while we move to the terminal for the architecture discussion.
Design decisions locked in.
Okay, continuing in terminal.
So let's go back here and look.
Key architectural questions. Since everything lives in a single script block,
How do we structure the clock rendering and updates? Three options.
flat procedural plus set interval?
A flat array of 24 o'clock data objects on page load loops 1 to EnterHTML, all 24 cards, each second, second…
Uh, on the SVG hand element, so Jans, we were talking about that, what it was gonna pick.
So it went with SVG, makes sense.
Um… or…
Clock objects with request animation frame.
Notice the nice gives us the pros and the cons?
Mm-hmm.
More complex, a sweeping second on our road clock feels like over-engineering.
Okay… CSS Custom Properties for everything, itchards SPG element gets CSS custom properties…
Updated by JS, day-night things, high CSS Proven, JS…
Pros, separation of styling, CSS transitions,
CSS animation sync to wall clock time is genuinely tricky to implement correctly in a single file.
Now, I want you guys to notice something.
You have to know what this means, to a degree.
To be able to use it. Otherwise, you're just kind of going…
Okay, I'll do what you recommend.
So, for instance, I've been working with Codex to build this app, and it's currently 14,000 lines of Python.
I don't know any Python.
So, I am completely trusting it. The only way I can tell it…
what's wrong, or interact, is by, did it work?
Oh, it didn't? I noticed it did this. Fixed this. That's it.
If that's your job, then you would already have that, hopefully.
But, uh, the more you know, the more you can interact with this,
And get better results.
more closely to what you want.
In fact, sometimes, I know Jan's has done the same thing. I've gone into the CSS code and said,
No, no, no, let me edit the code, do it this way, because I didn't like what it was doing.
So, A sounds good to me!
Is everybody 8 sound good to everybody?
Okay.
At this point in time, if I was doing this for real, I'd say, well, yeah, let's drop the single file thing. That's obviously a constraint that's working against us.
Let's make this multi-file.
You know, or even say, you know, if we didn't have that constraint,
What would the recommendations be and see what it says.
I think I know what I would do.
But…
If you give it enough information, its recommendations are really…
usually pretty good.
Oh yeah.
But if it doesn't have any information to work with, then…
You know, it's just gonna kind of pick middle-of-the-road answers, really.
Yep, the more…
Go.
Anybody else got questions?
Alright.
A project of this size, single file constraint isn't technically painful, but it does conflict with the CSS conventions.
Separate files is better practice and costs nothing. I'd recommend dropping it.
So…
Uh…
No server required, CSS via link, and JS with script source both work fine.
The only thing that doesn't work is ES modules, due to browser core.
So we still write plain non-module JS.
Uh, what stays the same? Okay!
Looks fine to me, what do you guys think? Gans, you wanna do it?
Alright, let's do it.
Sure.
Alright, let's take a look at this.
Okay, structure's now index.html-style CSS, script.js, no build step, no server.
Works as a local file. Uh… option A, now with proper separation of concerns,
Uh, design, Section 1, File Structure.
index.html, no inline styles, no script logic.
contains a header, main wrapping the carousel. The main is a div,
with a class of carousel viewport containing a div class carousel track with 24 article…
clock cards, generated by JS on load, 2 button arrow elements flanking the viewport for previous next.
Link to Style CSS…
Uh, using inline styles deferred.
Each clock card contains an SVG analog face with hand elements.
A footer with flag and city name, UTC offset and digital time readout.
Home card gets a cloud clock card home.
Does this structure look right? Looks fine to me.
Yes.
Go for it.
Alright, let's look at the CSS.
Design tokens?
Looks fine. Carousel viewports with 100% overflow. See, a lot of this, you'd have to know CSS.
Otherwise, again, you're gonna be like, okay!
What I see looks fine.
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Dan, you got a problem with everything?
Okay.
Yes.
That's fine. That's fine. I would probably fiddle with it a lot if I had if I was really doing this for real, you know, it would take me the evening and I would.
take the care to…
Do a bunch of little things.
Okay.
Here's our JS.
Looks fine to me. Does anybody have a problem with it?
Anybody? Okay.
We're done with the HTML, we're done with CSS, we're done with JS.
What do you mean by venues?
Okay, we're now right to the…
Go ahead.
Yeah. We're done discussing that part as part of this brainstorming step.
It hasn't written any of those things.
Now it's writing the design doc, not the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.
Alright, so right now it's just writing specs.
So they took our requirements overview, and it's writing up much more detailed specs.
Based on our… our discussion.
And as you can see here, there's now a docs directory.
in the folder, and inside Docs,
We've got superpowers,
And… let's see what's in that… superpower…
specs…
Yeah.
There's nothing in there right now, because it's still writing it.
Yeah.
So this is all part of that superpowers methodology stuff that I was talking about earlier.
Okay.
So again, I'll go over here,
And now… there's the… there's the, uh…
design document.
Now it's right… now it's reading the file it just wrote.
And said, oh, whoa, whoa, we got two ambiguities to fix.
The init step says overwrites… override city with… whoa.
Back here…
Yep.
It's still thinking. You can watch it as it goes by if you want.
Okay?
No, that's fine.
Yeah, it's done. Okay, let's go back.
So, there's two ambiguities. The init step says override city with users resolve city name, but doesn't say how.
The city comes from parsing the INA string, okay?
The carousel contains reference card width without specifying how it's measured.
The offset parsing step,
Doesn't say how to convert the short offset string to an integer. So…
Right here, you see it's updating that designMD file.
right here…
And then it tells you how it's fixing it.
So it said, you know, here are the problems, ah, here are the solutions.
I'm coming up with…
And then it added… it removed a change, this line to this.
Okay?
Specs written and committed, please review it, let me know if you want any changes before I write the implementation plan.
My bet is there's gonna still be some holes, but that's fine.
Yeah.
You can work this stuff out.
Right. I'll cap the file again…
Okay, so let's look at this puppy.
Okay, so this is everything it just wrote.
Overview, file structure…
Why it excluded ES modules?
The color palette?
Home Clock Highlight, and how it's gonna do that, the signals it's using.
The clock faces?
Day and night?
Nighttime is defined as local hour less than 6, or local hour greater than 18. Jan's made it real simple in the document.
He said it's 6 to 6.
We're not gonna do anything super fancy.
Clock face anatomy?
Then, the HTML structure…
Each generated clock card.
Notice it's using semantic elements, that's part of the HTML CSS skill.
Style sheet structure?
Oh, it's gonna structure that…
JavaScript…
And then, this is what's gonna happen.
When it runs…
Carousel controls…
And finally, there's the city… there's the data table.
And these things are out of scope.
Looks good to me!
Fantastic. So it essentially just expanded on those requirements, but that's fine. That's exactly what you'd expect.
Looks good.
Alright, now it's gonna transition, now it's gonna start actually doing the work.
It's not. It's going to now write an implementation plan based on those specs.
What would happen if you just asked Claude, not Claude Code, to do that?
Well, Claude, yeah, so…
Are you talking about Claude Chat?
Because there's lots of different…
I believe that's what he means.
There's lots of Claude services. You have the Claude chat, you have Claude Cowork, Claude Code.
Claude API.
All of those things that do different things. So just Claude Chat is all it does is it generates a text response.
That's what chat is, it just generates a text response.
like this.
Um, actually, Claude Chat has tools that it can do. It can create documents and do some other things.
some artifacts and whatnot, but it's a completely different harness, so that… I mentioned that harness.
The Claude code has a whole bunch of methodology,
And, uh, built into it. The superpowers is stuff that's on top of it.
But if you would like to check that out, I would totally recommend.
going to Claude Code site, you want to pull that up, Scott? Or just, you can do just, you know,
It tells you how Claude code works, and it kind of covers that whole harness.
You're talking about here?
Yeah, it's gonna be in Claude Code Docs somewhere.
Okay?
Uh… where is it? Resources?
Isn't that it?
Where's the docks? What am I missing?
Where am I supposed to go?
Here, it was the second result in my Kagi search, Scott. Would you want me to paste it in here?
And what is it? What do I search for?
How Claude Code works.
That one?
That's it.
So, this walks you through the whole thing.
And it goes through in detail how Claude Code is different from Claude, and what it does.
Right.
And you can see it's quite a bit different from just the Claude chat.
Yeah. So, this is the Claude chat. If you ask it about that, you're gonna end up with a bunch of individual files, maybe?
No.
It's certainly not going to be doing what we're doing. Now, if you download the Claude app…
Right? It's got tabs up here, so this is the classic chat, like ChatGPT.
Co-work is where you're going to ask it to work on an Excel file, or a PowerPoint.
Or something like that.
And then there's code, but really, you can use code here, but really, it's far, far, far better to do it in the terminal like we're doing.
Right. Yeah, it adds a GUI on Claude code, but there's some things that are not available in this GUI that are available in the CLI.
Yeah.
that this is for people that are not comfortable with CLIs. This is for those vibe coders out there that are just like, whoa.
Right.
Alright. Uh, spec written in… well, where are we?
We're still waiting. It's still thinking, isn't it?
Still transitioning.
Yeah. Three minutes and 25 seconds and counting.
You just tried it,
Well, currently 29, but it's been using a lot more. Now, can I type usage at any time, Janz?
Um, no, you could fire up a tab and type and enter Claude and do it. You could, you could fire a new session up right here if you wanted.
But I wouldn't interrupt its current…
You're not already in, that's wild, I don't know why.
I don't know. So, I could go into Claude right now and type usage.
Sure, sure.
There you go.
So, at 11 PM, my usage will reset. I've used 68% so far.
And 15% for my week.
There's my stats, my cool little…
Terminal graphics.
There you go. Okay.
Okay, still transitioning…
So,
Yeah, Craig, Vernon said,
He used Claude AI and said, build a world clock with round face in Python,
that has a dashboard.
Right, but it's not designed for it, so it's not going to be as easy to work with.
As we are here, because here, we're actually where we need to be doing this.
And then once it finally spits out whatever it's doing here, you know, we're going to be able to take control and
revise it, etc., etc, etc.
No, no problem, Vernon. You can ask all you want, that's how you learn.
Okay. Keynes, do we have any idea why it's taking so long to transition to the implementation plan?
What's it doing right now?
It's taking five minutes, man.
I know that's 5 minutes!
It's too long!
If you were doing this, you'd be done by now with the whole thing, right?
I mean by hand. We were doing it by hand.
That's right.
That is actually a good point. Yeah, we're sitting here waiting.
But… this is saving massive amounts of time nonetheless.
Thinking!
That's when you flip up to one of the other projects.
That's exactly correct.
Right, exactly right.
tabs. That's what CMEX is for, right?
Exactly. Yeah.
That's what Sebucks is for. I'm like, oh, it's doing okay. I'm going to go to this, do this.
All right, what's… what's the other AI asking for now?
Actually…
Yep.
Like, at this point, it's like, you know, the slowdown is it asking me questions.
Right, and so…
This is actually another one I'm running.
Right now, for this Lovecraft… Lovecraft.
clock, and so… meanwhile…
Uh, why can't it be reached?
Yeah, it probably died.
I think it died.
But…
Okay, grab me something. Oh, don't grab me something.
You can tell it.
Tell him…
to look up Dewey's Pizza.
D-E-W-E-Y. Tell him to get a Dewey's Pizza, that's gonna be a lot better.
My brother's visiting, folks.
Yeah, it'd be better. Okay, so this is one where I'm having it take Lovecraft,
creations, and make a… I have images for all of them, and I wanted to make a…
a filterable, sortable interface for those.
And so, it said, how do you want to organize these? And I said, well, you know, actually, why don't we make it available to
to a filter on the alignment.
Um, uh, type and environment.
And so it came back, and said, okay.
Um…
You know, it's giving me this stuff here, and I can respond.
The world clock's waiting for you, Scott.
The world clock's done.
Oh, there you go. Uh…
Where?
It's waiting for your input. I don't know.
I don't see anything.
I see.
Just ask it what's up?
Said close. Oop!
Whoop! Here we go. Wrote 770 lines.
Still thinking.
Hmm. I don't know why your CMUX is saying Claude is waiting for your input. Mine does not do that.
Well, I need to look at your settings.
Clearly.
I think, I think you need to send your laptop to the grinder and…
Okay.
Stop installing so many doohickeys on it.
I love my doohickeys.
I know.
They don't love you.
So you can tell it to restart the server.
Right here.
Yeah, you can say the URL's not working.
Okay, let's go back… Oh! Here we go!
Plan complete and save to…
That document, 2 execution Options,
Well, that's from the other one. So it's showing me, oh, how about these filters?
So I could look at it, but let's go back to where we were.
So, right here. Um, do you want it to be sub-agent driven? That's recommended. I dispatched a fresh sub-agent per task.
review between tests, fast iteration, or…
Execute task in this session, use executing plans with checkpoints. So let's go with sub-agents, I think that makes the sense, and it should get…
Are you going to review the… review that document first, or…?
You don't have.
I really don't want to review 700 files. 700 lines.
Okay. You don't have to.
I know. I'm not going to.
Okay?
If you're, if you're doing this for real, I would recommend it.
Oh, of course, of course, but I don't want us to be here till 10.
Okay…
So now it's firing off sub-agents.
So it's, it's now acting as that orchestration agent.
Yup.
Those sub-agents will do different things. They'll have a coding agent, you'll have one that's checking… that's code review agent.
etc.
Now, it said I could type slash agents. Again, is that something I should not do now?
Um, probably not right in the middle, not right here.
Okay, so here are the 10 tasks.
Okay? But it broke in.
And it's gonna, it's gonna work through those and it might, it might work through, it might take 20 minutes to work through those, Scott. I doubt it for this size of the thing, but I've, I've had it.
sit there and spin on big things that I'm doing.
For long periods of time, and that's where you go to pop off to another tab, and you do your stuff there.
Go for lunch.
Or go eat.
So there's my world clock so far.
Looks great.
I'm not worried.
Well, I'm not doing much at all, it's doing it.
Okay.
Uh-oh, I've used 91% of my session limit jans, I told you I need to upgrade.
Maybe there's the problem.
I've now used 93%.
You'd probably go update it right now and catch it before you get to Hunter. Go!
Yup.
It's a race for time!
Are you really going to upgrade to the $100 a month one for this?
Well, I was going to upgrade anyway.
For what?
For all the other stuff.
Uh-huh. What other stuff?
Okay, well, we'll just do it this month.
Uh… link sent to Scott at Web Sanity, let me go…
That should work.
There we go.
Sign in…
Here's the code…
Code in…
So, I think it just opened up…
Playwright.
I'll get this off your guys' screen, you don't need to see this.
Waiting. Let's see where we are.
Okay, did the HTML…
Now it's doing the CSS.
Upgrade, upgrade!
didn't it kind of already do that when it showed us the examples?
Well, it didn't actually generate the files and do the work.
I think… But it did kind of do it.
Well, it… yeah, it had… it had pretty much all the HTML and CSS you needed to…
Right.
It's a rip-off, man.
It's a display.
Yes.
It's… it's still… it's still kind of a dumb computer. It doesn't know, you know, that it's… that it's, uh, duplicating work sometimes.
So, I actually… when I, uh, complete something, I, uh, have a command called retro that it…
does a self-assessment and can learn things, and…
Oh, really? What do you… is that built in?
adjust for next time.
No, it's, uh…
There we go.
Share it!
Don't be selfish, Craig.
Alright, back here.
Okay, step 3…
Now, that's interesting, it says Haiku45. What's going on with that, Gans?
Um, it has dropped you down to a different agent so that… because you're running out of session.
Yeah, but when I go here and type usage, I'm fine.
So now what do I do?
I think it's custom. I don't think I've published that one yet, though.
I don't know.
Uh, try to quit out of the session, and then, um…
I wonder if I told it.
go back in with the restore session.
Yeah, I think you gotta have to quit and then…
See what it says.
go back in, but…
Yeah, hit the escape key.
Okay.
Hit the escape key.
Whoop, up, boop!
I'll go ahead and plug it back in again.
Just whack it on the side.
It'll be… that'll be worth watching in Task 7. 3 is complete, now we're on to 4.
Let's see…
Control-Alt-Delete.
I don't see Haiku here. We'll see what happens.
Okay, let's go back here and take a look.
Do we have anything? Nothing.
Okay? Meanwhile…
This part, notice it created this nice little web page.
And said, okay. I told it to create filters for a HP Lovecraft characters on alignment,
type and environment, and it says, I've got these four. Whoa!
Okay.
Our clock is coming together.
Let's see if these buttons work. Nope, buttons don't work.
Let's see what it's saying.
Oh, this is looking good.
Oh, right there. See the Git?
It's using Git for us.
Looking pretty good.
In fact…
Um…
Nothing to commit, okay.
Thought I would have committed by now.
Okay, so, while we're waiting…
Uh… does anybody have any questions or thoughts? Now's a perfect time, if anybody has any.
While we're waiting.
Anybody?
This is Stan. Is anyone security auditing the code, the AI code behind the scenes?
That is an excellent question.
And I'll let Jans and Craig answer it.
We just don't know.
And then I have something to ask. I have something to point out.
What code are we talking about? What code are we talking about?
I think Stan's saying, who's auditing this stuff for security?
Oh.
What stuff are we talking about?
Well, if you didn't ask it to audit, it did not get audited, is it?
Right. All of it!
Well, it depends on the it depends on the part that you're.
Like, if you ask it to,
I'm sorry. 2 people talking. I couldn't make out.
If… if you ask it to audit it, it will audit it. If you don't, it probably won't.
Craig, what'd you say?
So again, you have to know what you're doing,
Like, to know it should be audited, right? So, anytime I write software,
Okay?
Okay, wait, wait. Wait! Wait, wait. Who's auditing the tools? What I should say?
That's what I was wondering, sir, are you talking about the code it's generating, or the code?
The tools. Who's auditing the tools? Great.
Uh, Claude is auditing these tools, and I mean… I mean by that, clawed code is auditing
itself, in fact, what did they say at Anthropic? Virtually all of Claude Code is written by Claude Code at this point.
So, that's what's doing it.
Okay. Okay.
But like Craig is saying, if you want to audit this code that's being generated, you have to tell it to audit it.
Now, that could be something you include.
You know?
Okay.
Right. So yeah, the people at Anthropic are using Claude to audit…
Claude's code.
Right. And this just happened, I believe, yesterday?
Okay.
Uh, Claude has a new model set to release, and they are calling it…
Does anybody remember? Mythos!
Right, and they are not releasing it to the public.
Mythos.
Mythos
Because, apparently, it is so good at finding security vulnerabilities, they ran it against all the major web browsers, and I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, somebody,
It found hundreds of security vulnerabilities.
It found security vulnerability that had been around 20 years in OpenBSD.
Yeah, I've heard.
Which, if I recall, is famous for not having security vulnerabilities.
So…
Yes, and so what they…
I've heard between 700 and 1,000 different vulnerabilities.
What's that?
Which was the best? Which was the best.
Which was the best. I don't understand what that means.
That was not released, because…
It just didn't…
Well, the browsers and all the security problems. Oh, that's all right.
They are… hold on, because they have gone to Apple
Google, uh, IBM, Microsoft, and they're giving them the results and allowing them to use it.
Because they've said, we are not going to allow the public to have access to this, because this could conceivably be
Such a powerful tool in the wrong hands.
We are going to give these companies
heads-up notice, so they can fix the problems.
So…
You know, Scott, something that you and I haven't talked about, and I'd be really interested to hear your.
Your take on it and your opinion about Anthropics being a CPG.
You mean… what?
The Corporation for the Public Good.
Public good? Okay.
Um, well, there's a couple of ways to think about that. So, as most of you guys probably know from the news,
Right? Uh, the, um…
Department of Defense, I'm not going to call it the Department of War, because the name hasn't changed,
The Department of Defense said to Anthropic, hey, we basically want to use your tool for anything we want.
And Anthropic said, no, we don't… we're not going to give you the right to do whatever you want. We don't allow you to use it.
to… for autonomous robots, right? I think that was one of the things, or…
Human targeting? Was that it?
And as a result, the Defense Department and Trump said, oh, we're not going to have you anymore, and we're going to declare you
a tool that nobody in the Defense Department can use for any reason.
And about a day later, OpenAI goes, oh, we'll do it!
Yeah.
We'll sign up, and then Sam Altman came out and said, they've agreed that they won't use it.
for these things, but of course, it's not in writing. They just basically said, we won't do it.
Trust us. And so, that caused a lot of people to switch to Anthropic. I know two people, at least,
that were using ChatGPT and switched to Claude, because they felt like, oh, these guys are more ethical.
than ChatGPT. Um, so I think it's helped them.
Uh… that said, they are a company.
Um, so, you know…
companies do all sorts of things all the time that are problematic.
I don't think they're angels. I do think, overall, they take AI safety a lot more importantly.
than OpenAI, for instance.
or Google, um…
So, I think they're…
What do you think about the concept of a CPG in general?
I think they're generally okay. I haven't really looked into it a lot.
What?
It sounds to me like you're asking me a loaded question. Go ahead.
No, I'm not. I'm curious, I'm…
generally curious on what you think. I mean, you've looked at this stuff a lot more than I have.
Okay.
Right.
I think it's okay. I haven't looked at it in huge, huge…
Detailed.
What? What? What is a corporate for public good?
So, it means that they've added
Extra legal handcuffs to themselves willingly.
saying that… that the public good.
outranks their shareholders.
the shareholder, good. And that they can be sued and prosecuted for… if it's proven that they've made choices,
that prioritize their shareholders and their own company over the public good.
Yeah.
Now, there's… it's a weak mechanism to enforce that, but it's still an enforceable.
Um, legal…
Structure.
Yeah, except it's in your charter.
Oh, you mean I do no evil, right?
It's in your, you know, right, not just a… not just a, uh…
Logan.
Right. And it has at least some teeth. There are legal mechanisms to enforce it.
It's not just saying, yes, we are going to do this. It's not an aspiration. There's actual legal mechanisms to enforce
that they comply. Now, there's not… there's not anybody to… that's watching them, particularly, you know, there's not a CPG police out there.
Yes. But.
And usually when CPGs get sued, they get sued by.
You know, a consumer group or shareholders themselves, or…
you know, whatever the case may be.
Yeah. At least it's a pathway that's legal. Right.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and it does, you know, put your money where your mouth is to some degree when they say, hey, you know, this is our intent.
with this company, and so far, Anthropic has, you know, walked that walk.
Which I feel much more comfortable about than many of the other ones.
Google.
OpenAI, Meta.
Certainly meta, certainly Grok, and…
shitter, you know.
Yeah.
Hmm.
I mean, Twitter, I mean, XAI Grok,
is explicitly doing…
Horrible things, and Musk is just laughing hysterically about it.
Um, you know, when I said child sexual abuse material, I was not exaggerating.
Uh, it allowed people to upload a picture of somebody, and then nudify the image, and so all these young women…
Uh, people were uploading pictures of them right and left, and saying, uh, show me what this person would look like nude, and it was doing it, and they were publicly available.
So, um, horrible. That's absolutely… there's no excuse, it's reprehensible, and Musk was, like, writing, you know, dismissive things on Twitter, and…
And, you know, laughing about it and so on, and uh…
It's absolutely horrible. It's gotten banned in several countries as a result of it.
And of course, Apple and Google did nothing.
They should have banned the app from the App Store, but of course they did nothing.
Okay, we are at task 7.
The home clock?
That's what we have so far.
We are not in Honolulu.
But our clocks are…
Yeah, it's doing a pretty good job so far.
Yeah?
Question. This is Stan. Had you heard with the mythos that they're.
They're giving this tools or the the output to the the open source community.
I believe they're giving… oh, no.
I don't think so, I don't know. Uh, let's look…
I mean, or at least the results is they found something, and you said like.
Well, I know that they said they had found something,
in OpenBSD.
Uh, it was just the last couple of days, let me look…
Yeah.
Craig bubbled us up really early in the night.
Glass swing! Look up Glass Wing.
Glass wing, here at ours.
Yeah. Um…
I don't know.
Glass wing?
Ring.
Yeah.
The wind. Wing?
wing, might be one word.
That's not it. Um, let me just do a regular search for it.
Outside of ours.
Let's sort by… date.
Should be, like, 2 days ago?
It probably hasn't covered you yet, then.
No, no, I thought I read the article…
in…
Huh.
He probably read it on Anthropics' site.
I was in the news.
There's the article.
At Anthropic.
I was looking for a news article about it, like, where I've sort of seen the news article in place, I would have…
out of the body.
It was wired.
Right.
The company announced…
Basically, any… any…
you know, internet infrastructure,
If they just released this thing, it would be…
disasters.
everyone's… yeah, it would be a disaster security-wise, so…
They're giving it to the people that can…
fix that. So, you know, Linux Foundation, Cisco,
You know, saw the routers and stuff.
There you go.
The idea, in part, is to simply to give developers the world's foundational tech platforms time
to turn Mythos Preview on their own systems so they can mitigate vulnerabilities and exploit chains that the model develops
in simulated attacks.
Yup. To kickstart urgent exploration of how AI capabilities across the industry…
are on the precipice of upending current software security and digital defense practice. I believe Bruce Schneier wrote about this, too.
Let's see… so…
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, the Linux Foundation, Cisco, Nvidia,
Broadcom and more than 40 other tech cybersecurity, critical infrastructure, and financial organizations
That will have private access to the model.
So, this is kind of a BFD, you know?
Wait a minute. What was the, uh…
Why do finance companies need that?
Big fucking deal. What's that?
Why do finance companies need that?
PST.
You don't think it'd be good for banks to know in finance companies to have access to this?
I only saw one mention in the release, and it was, I think, Wells Fargo.
But…
Expedia, so they can leak it to the world.
Yeah. So anyway, this happened…
This was yesterday.
So, I would definitely keep up with it. There you go, Project Glasswing.
I would definitely keep up with that.
Because it's going to be in the news for a while.
Alright, we are… we are at task 10.
It is doing final verification.
I'm sorry, what? Something weird happened.
Was that Gary?
sounded like it.
Now, that's kind of weird.
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, the what was the name of that project you just mentioned, Project Glass Link?
Glass Wing, all one word, G-L-A-S-S, wing, W-I-N-G.
Thank you.
Okay, Craig, you said you published your skill.
Yep, yep.
Right? How do we access it? How do I use it?
It probably made a README for you there?
If you go to my repo, I think?
Alright, let's go there.
The AI skills…
All right, Booch Tech just published AI Skills.
Oh, yep. Installation.
And there's no README, jerk.
What? Oh, go up to the top level. I put you in a…
Subfolder.
There you go, right there.
All right, so there you go.
Copy-paste.
Let's do it!
Let's add Craig.
Alright, let's go in…
Go here. By the way, notice my usage is all of a sudden a lot better.
Alright, uh…
plug-ins. Oops, slash.
Marketplace…
at Marketplace…
Oh, I just had to do that. I'm a dumbass, sorry.
Whoop!
Let me go back.
Just do it right here, like that.
Alright, and then we need to…
Plug in, install, Booch Tech.
Okay.
Can I trust you, Craig?
Okay.
I think so.
Should I go ahead and do project scope?
No, do user scope.
Yeah, you probably want that stuff for later.
There we go.
Okay, so where are we? The projects are Scott?
You could… you could run slash retro now.
Although you might have to.
I don't know if it'll work in other instances yet.
No, you'd have to restart the session.
Yeah.
But, as you saw, Scott, there's a problem.
Oh, there's a big problem. Yeah.
How would you describe the problem to it?
I would say that…
uh… Chicago is repeated twice, one day, one night.
There appears to be an extra one for the day next to the correct one for night.
Why do you think that that's happening?
I have no idea.
So…
The time is actually completely correct. It's 8.52.
One is the current time?
But not, not, it's having a collision, Scott, so the, remember the style for your time has that orange on it?
And the house?
Okay.
So it's… it's centering the Chicago time, which happens to be your time,
And so you're saying, so you, you need to let it know what's going on.
Say, hey, I'm, I'm in the Chicago zone, check this out in Playwright and tell me what you think is going wrong.
And it can probably do a better job of describing what's going on than I'm doing right now.
But it's doing the…
your zone, in addition to all…
All 24 zones, when it should be replacing the one for your zone.
And the time on your zone is wrong.
Yep.
Okay?
vibing.
Again, those change constantly. Janz, what were some of the ones you saw?
Craig sent the… posted where all of them are.
The whole list.
In the chat.
I do not see where that is.
7.52 PM Central.
This is Stan. We're getting close to 9 o'clock. But considering how many people are here and the great interest, we can go for an extended period. So it's not a problem. Okay, Scott and Jans.
I would like to… I would like to finish it.
I know, I know, but… Don't worry about the time. It's whenever you guys are ready to stop.
Well, A, we should worry about the time that it shows Chicago's time wrong.
So that's when it opened.
Which obviously is showing…
I think that's what it opened?
In a browser, and that doesn't look…
And softwares…
That's right. I don't think so, Scott.
What?
I don't think so.
Oh, you don't think so? You think that's old? Okay.
See what it said?
What'd it say? What is… what is it?
Your session. It said, I can't… I can't access file.
And that I have to fire up a server.
File is blocked by PlayRoute, I gotta spin up the local server.
And oftentimes, if I want to see if it's going to spot something, I'll ask it a question. I don't think you asked it a question.
Okay.
So it found something.
Can you tell me what, you know, take a look. I see something wrong, can you see it?
There you go. There's one thing, DST mismatch.
Duplicate data date?
Data IANA collision.
There are now two cards with America Chicago.
So it found both problems.
Right.
Notice again, I did not say what the problems were.
I simply said, I'm in the Chicago zone, check this in Playwright,
to figure out what's wrong.
It's all what's wrong, and is now fixing it.
Oh, see the compacting right here?
That's what we were talking about earlier.
It said, okay, I've got a bunch of stuff here, I need to compact this.
Happens here…
It didn't notice, though, that the…
5-hour offset clock isn't updating.
And the others are, right?
This one? Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think that's gonna disappear.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. But, I mean…
It didn't notice that issue.
True.
Now, if I was doing this for real, Scott, I probably would have had it use web components for all those little clock things.
Right.
Now, we've also probably done it in VEET so that I had a…
Had a local dev environment with the real server, and…
You can see, you know,
Sure.
HMR, the hot module reload stuff going on.
Go in and tweak the CSS.
And you might want to open this project in the…
It's a really… let's do it.
VS Code and take a look at what it did. Check out its CSS, check out its HTML.
Let's do it.
Take a look at his, look at its JavaScript.
Let's open the folder…
And let's go to Developer…
World Cluck…
Alright. So, here's what it did.
Here's the files.
Okay.
That's the stuff superpowers was doing.
Alright, what do you want me to open, Janz?
index.html?
What did I say? No, I said the CSS first, but yes, HTML and CSS.
Oh. There's the CSS.
I'll close that so we can see it more easily. So, we created…
246 lines of CSS for us.
Well, did nesting by default, that's nice.
Why do you, why do you think it did that?
Because it's more efficient. Oh, look at this!
No, because like…
Because you have it in your instructions, that's why.
Hey, look, guys!
Because I told it to. Otherwise, it…
Look at that.
Software's never done.
It's fixed.
Let's see if I can swipe. I sure can.
I noticed one thing, it doesn't appear to wrap around, does it?
Yup, it does not wrap around.
David.
I know. I'm going to.
Tell it to.
Probably gonna cost you about 10 cents, though.
It's only cost him a hundred bucks.
It's not gonna cost them any more.
You can play with this world clock day and night, all week, and you still wouldn't hit the limit now.
Yeah, we're kind of subsidized, though. Like, if we were paying as you go…
It could easily be, like, something like 10 cents. Like you said,
Yeah, it's true.
Uh, like, your dance thing is, like, about 50 cents a run.
Yeah. Can we show that?
Um, and these…
these packages…
Um, or only for, like, personal use. So if you've got a website that's using AI, it's gonna always use the API costs.
Yep.
Right.
Okay, so I told her I'd like to have the clocks wrap around when I get to the far right or left.
Let's see what happens.
Okay, Jan, is there anything you want to point out about the CSS?
Yeah, it's not using BIM. It's nice semantic.
CSS, not using a bunch of utility, um, classes.
like Tailwind, or that sort of thing. Yup.
Right. And that's all because of the skill that I, you know, I told it not to do all that stuff.
So, good.
Right. Yeah. So that looks good.
There's the JavaScript for those who want to see it.
That's only hundreds.
and it it made some of the clocks the dark before night, and some.
Yes. That was in the instructions.
If it's… and remember it said it's 6 PM to 6am. That's considered night.
Okay, I didn't didn't see that.
We didn't want to do anything super fancy.
Right. Okay.
And here's the HTML.
Look at that, it's only 24 lines long.
Very nice.
Though it did all this…
These are our specs, here's the plans.
Save for us?
Okay, let's see… it's still thinking, and…
going on about that.
So again, we're close to being done. We've got a few other things we might want to add. Jan's and I.
thought of some additional features.
that we might want to do.
Um, so, but what we have any thoughts or comments?
And if we're still waiting, I'll start going around saying, you know, what'd you guys find useful, what'd you guys find interesting?
Scott, did you want me to show the lock thing?
Yeah, why don't you show the lock thing for a minute?
With the integrated…
AI feature.
Sure.
Okay.
I'll quit sharing.
There you go.
Okay. Um…
Be right back.
Are you guys able to see this?
Thank you.
Lots of nice locks.
Yeah, I can see the locks.
Okay, so my dad, you know, started this lock and key collection when I was born, you know, with the intent of passing it down, you know, when he passes away, etc.
And it's been a hobby of his for a long time.
He, he.
tracked all of this by just taking pictures of it and having pictures in a folder, and then having a spreadsheet.
So from that spreadsheet, I worked on developing a taxonomy,
I don't…
You know, for all of these dimensions, these kind of search dimensions for the locks, you know, what kind of mechanism it has and whatnot.
And then this has just a basic…
faceted search like you'd have on Amazon, so I can just, yeah, you know, I could check several of these and show those from there.
But the real neat thing in here is the AI.
research. So, if I go in and edit this lock, you know, it's got some pictures,
And so I have built…
I built a configurable agent, and when I say configurable, you can just go into the settings of the site.
So I…
And adjust the taxonomy definitions, add new taxonomy things,
give it new directions for what it should do when it's researching things.
Um, so it combines that agent with the information that's already in here.
So, this information that's in here for this lock is just directly out of the spreadsheet.
that dad put this stuff in here,
Um, in the spreadsheet, and…
Here it is. And so you can see…
it's not particularly…
Complete, um…
It's best if you fill in those things that you know are true, so I'm gonna say this is definitely a pancake lock.
Um, and it looks like it is brass and steel.
Uh, it definitely has a push key.
Yeah, let's say that's good enough.
So, then I'm gonna have my little magic AI button here, and it fires up the…
The agent.
And so it goes through a whole little methodology of its own.
I have some research corpus that I pulled into the, into the
It can search its own reference to see if it spots anything.
And actually…
Um, I have about 7,500 items in the local
reference where I just grabbed data from…
sites on the internet.
Because there wasn't a good lot site.
So that's how much it's spent so far out of my limit that I set for each lock research.
What is the 12 cents and $2 down at the bottom?
So the agent's running out there, doing… it's using a web search tool to search the web for more information about this particular lock. If it finds some information, it'll come back, and then based on that information, it can run out and do some more search.
So it's kind of run down…
lines and whatnot.
And so it's 12 cents up to, up to this point. It'll be more than $0.12 before it's done.
And these, these searches can take up to a couple minutes.
Oh, okay, so it's done. So this is the UI did. So all of the fields that it is… put suggestions in get highlighted. So it suggested a new name,
Manufacturer, date, value,
said you should put the diameter on there.
And then it updated the… the, uh…
Description.
Subscription.
All of those things are true.
It got the right information.
It found some information about the model.
And that's correct. It was not a pen tumbler. This is a lever lock.
Correct.
So, so right on the front of the lock.
find some comparable sales online…
To adjust it, yep, it updated said it was pin tumbler, now it's lever.
It's sudden.
Time zone, you know, era,
And it is in excellent condition, thank you very much.
There you go, so, and then, and so then it gives you a report of why that gives you the reasoning for why it made all those changes.
So it's like, here are the changes, here are the notes, and here's the reasoning. So this is ephemeral.
So this report is ephemeral, it just tells you why it did it, so you can understand the choices that it made.
And then if you disagree, or you tell it has anything that's wrong, I can just do corrections here, say, no, no,
It's actually this, I'm sure that it's from, you know, 1870 or whatever.
Because they don't know.
Where you type in corrections for anything that you know that it got wrong, or you could even give it directions to
Go back and look more into this.
You know, note this…
Whatever direction you want to give, and then you can request a revision where it then does a little revision loop, but in this case, it did a great job, so I'm just going to say
Accept all those things, and then I can edit it directly if I want, but I'm not going to.
And I'll save it. So…
Now, now that has a nice.
a nice updated record of this… of this lock. Way better than the data that was there previously.
Does it keep?
Does it keep that that logic reasoning in somewhere, or just change the data fields?
which changed the beta fields.
Yeah, Steve Fedman, your mic's…
Crazy feedback.
Can Steve Stegman mute his microphone? It's interfering.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, the… no, the research report that it did was ephemeral. It saves all the data.
Oh, okay. Thank you.
And it grabs a lot of the stuff out of that report, and it adds them to these research notes. So many of the things that were in the report are here, but this has been… this is…
Notes from that research, whereas the report is for a different purpose, to let you know how it came to this information.
And Jan's picked up the fonts and the design.
Okay, okay, thank you.
And then… Right.
And like I said, you know, this is all configurable, so here's this AI guide is a big chunk of the agent that says, hey, you're a research assistant agent for an antique bag logging.
In key collection, um, these are your research standards, these are the places where you should look and prefer.
prefer the higher things in this hierarchy for your data sources.
It just gives it guidance for how it should perform its job.
And then in addition to that, it defines all of those taxonomies. So it says, you know, hey, material.
Aluminum is lightweight silver and it tells when, when.
Padlock bodies started being created with aluminum.
etc. So it can make better decisions.
And if I wanted to, I could add more stuff here. My dad can go in there and adjust and add a new tag. For instance, he just added
Switch locks and signal locks, which are he wanted a couple extra tags for railroad locks.
And so that it can tag things properly as a signal lock, and signal lock is this.
You know, how to tell a signal lock from something else and.
Um, but…
And so that's 1 of the reason to take so much to do this is we're shoving a lot of that context in.
It takes a lot of those tokens in,
Um, to, to do its job.
And I didn't, I didn't even remember, it was on that research report also how much it cost to run that report.
Did anybody notice how much it was cost? I didn't.
pay attention when I looked at it.
I saw 12 cents, and that was it.
Yeah, I do have stats I'm tracking, and I can see how much dad has spent on this.
You know…
150 bucks.
140 bucks.
You know, and that's…
Where do you get old locks like this? It's an amazing collection.
Well, dad's been collecting it since, you know, for 58 years.
Sales.
So.
The bright tails and things like that? Yeah.
And, and taking, you know, estate sales, antique stores, auctions, you know.
Et cetera. When he's traveling.
I mean, he's gotten stuff from Africa and he's gotten.
Are…
Now, these are this data is just drawn from pictures that he's found. Is that it, or actual lock?
Well, no, these are photographs of the locks that he's collected.
These are photographs that dad took of the items in his collection.
And then, for this item, he put this information in the spreadsheet.
Okay.
But someone could do this similar kind of thing just from pictures, right?
Um, it actually is pretty poor.
What a job it does from looking at the picture. It's helpful, but giving it this text.
Gives it a lot. Yeah, it helps it a lot.
Additionally. Okay. Okay. So.
It helps a lot, just, just going from an image, it has a really pretty hard time.
Because that. I remember a couple of years back talking to a guy here in St. Louis that worked for.
a company that did labels for beer. And he had collections going back into the 30s and even earlier.
And you know. It was quite interesting, and I… recommended that he put that collection up on Pinterest, but he never did, that I know of.
But collections like this can be very interesting, I think.
Yeah. So the description for this when it said that at Rock Island lanes and that it has signal in a cursive script below.
Mm-hmm.
It did recognize all that and add that description. So it was able to read the text on the lock from the image.
Right.
of Rock Island lines and signal and differentiate that it was, you know, this big print followed by that.
And that information, you know, that text information,
Right.
is really important to the agent to then include that text in web searches.
To find out more information about it.
So…
Hey, Jen, before you leave, go back to that one real quick.
Sure.
The key hasn't been cut. Does that mean you don't have a key to the lock?
Um, no, actually, the key's cut is just kind of hard to see on that wooden grain.
That was a good pitch, though, Lee. That was a good catch.
Yeah.
Yeah, I see the I see. Okay.
Yeah, that's what the cylinder key. It has that, that's a newer design for
Dad's padlocks.
He looks pretty modern, actually.
You know, these flat steel keys were a big thing for a long time and before that you had these barrel keys that went over a post, they'll also call them a post key.
And then a bit key is what goes into something that doesn't have that post, you know, it'd be just like that, like a skeleton key that doesn't have the post in it, like that. That would be a bit key right here.
Or it's just a solid cylinder.
With a bit.
My dad has these up all around the house on wooden boards and that kind of stuff.
There's a lot of them in the house, it's pretty amazing.
It really is.
It's like walking key museum in our living room.
Yeah.
So how long would it be before you have a skinny robot to walk around and take them down and clean them for you?
Yeah, yeah, neat.
All right, so there's that thing. So that's an example of AI integration in a way that
Might be useful.
How long did it take you to build the…
the basic system. Now, I know it was kind of leapfrogging on the recipe creator you'd built previously.
Yeah, I don't know, Scott, I've spent a lot of time on this.
You know, for the last round of it, I did a whole bunch of refinement on it. It took me.
All weekend. You know, and you would have considered it done before then.
you know, before that time I spent on it.
That's when I did that looping agent and all the…
the price tracking and…
refinement. So I've spent a lot of time refining that agent.
But here's the other question. How long would it take you if you did it by hand?
Hmm.
Oh god, ages. I mean, I've been talking to dad about doing this for years.
And you never did it, because you were like, this is gonna take forever.
It never did it, you know, because it could take so long and so much effort.
So, I do not know how to stop sharing.
the screen.
Uh, there should be a bow, a row above… hit escape.
And that should show the bar if you hit it.
No.
up in the tab above, hit the little X up there.
I'm…
Yeah, I've just got a green…
Band around the window that I'm sharing.
You should.
Oh, to stop sharing. Or are just…
You should see, like, a bar with all the buttons on it, and one of them is stop sharing, but you have to escape to see the bar.
Okay, apparently you found it.
Okay.
Alright, let me take…
Thank you very much.
Yeah, that's really cool. So, um, everybody,
Thank you. Yes.
Uh… I, uh, it did it!
There you go. Um…
And I was testing it.
You know, here we go with our thing… with our clocks.
The only problem is when you get to the end, did you see that little pause?
So when I get to the far right or far left…
There's, like, a pause…
And then, it kind of wraps it.
And I told it, so here we go…
There, see that?
Yes.
And so, I told it and said, hey, uh, whenever I get to the far right or far left, there's a pause. And it said, okay, and it went… and it said, okay, I fixed it, and I'm like, no, you didn't, not enough.
It's still there, and so that's what you're seeing here, is it going through to try to fix…
the problem, and it analyzed the problem.
Right? Yeah.
One thing, one thing to know is it can't see motion.
It takes screenshots of things in Playwright and that kind of stuff, so it has a really hard time.
With the animation and motion issues.
Yep. But it's doing pretty good so far, we'll see.
It's using playwright, so, you know, it's doing it itself.
But I can still interact with it and look at it, but it's doing it itself. Now, the next thing I would add is, I want a button that takes me back to my home clock.
Sure.
From anywhere.
So, I can ask it that.
But again, while we're waiting, damn, that was awesome.
Yeah.
Uh, can you… why don't we go around and see what you guys found interesting, uh, about this?
what you're taking away from it,
Um, and uh, you know, while this thing keeps chugging away,
Um, so, uh, I'll start with you, Stan, because you're in the top left. What did you find interesting about this, or what are you going to take away?
It's gonna be… I don't know where I'm gonna put it in my list of undone projects.
Yeah.
because I got too many other things going on, but… And the only thing I can think of offhand that might be useful to me is, although I don't have everything, I've been subscribed to analog scientific magazine and since I aged 15.
and. It might help to catalog those or not.
Yeah.
So, when you said… go ahead, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Nice.
or or or more likely, I would catalog some 35 millimeter slides that my leftover from my dad and my brothers, etc, etc. And I've got about.
Nice.
5,000 of those. Going back to when I was.
just barely tall enough to walk.
Now, you said you don't know when you're gonna work it into your many projects to do,
Just like Jan's just said, and I've experienced this, I know others have…
Right.
wire
But, when you start using this, all of a sudden you're gonna be like, you know what? I can get that thing done that I've been wanting to do for a long time.
Uh, and it will allow you to do that.
Yeah. Very, very much.
So, more people now are getting more projects done.
Yeah, very much like that little bitty script file I was saying for 7 years. I need to write a script file so I don't have to do the 5 commands from the command line.
Yeah.
Yeah. Good. Uh, Brian B., how about you?
That same kind of thing. Okay.
What'd you find interesting?
Uh, loved it all from both of you, and…
your communications are fantastic, by the way.
Yeah, I… I like the code generation. Um, I… I…
don't like doing web stuff, personally, so it's kinda…
Nice to have something that's going to do it for me, which is good.
Sure. Totally get that.
I love the, uh, the ability to…
improve your productivity.
Um, it'd be interesting to see how
Other than, you know, code creation, what people do typically to…
Uh, improve their…
I have a good… thank you for asking that, Brian.
Oh, good.
I have something to show you. Uh…
Awesome.
So…
I could… I could… I could tell you, too, like, my mother-in-law had a
USB drive.
that had a big dump of photos and images on it from her old phone.
That that was done through some sort of.
Windows backup thing.
And I was like, well, and she's like, I don't know how to get these off here, or what to do with it.
I had Claude Code help me pull it out,
go through all the metadata for all the photos.
Organize it by date,
Um, and… and label it and organize it for her.
Man, was that… was that handy?
getting all that stuff off there, it would have taken me hours and hours and hours and hours, and all the files got renamed from, you know, the horrible names that…
That files get from photos, you know, DCS, whatever it was, and that kind of thing.
And gave her back a nice set of images that, you know, she thought she had lost forever of her grandkids and whatnot. So that's awesome.
That kind of thing.
Yeah. So, uh, here's something else.
That is awesome. Thank you. I'd need to do that myself.
Here's something else we've used it for. Uh, this was Janz's idea and his baby. So, we have… we host websites, as you guys know,
And we decided to start setting… we've… James and I have always taken a lot of notes as to how to set up our servers.
And Jan's had the idea a couple of months ago, uh, why don't we see if Claude can help automate that whole process, because Claude…
can use SSH on your computer,
Connect to a server and run commands.
And so, we've now done that on every single one of our servers. So we have a server called Ariadne,
And Janz wrote,
This document here, and this is a document that…
tells it everything it needs to do.
To set up the server. Now, a lot of this was… he copied and pasted from…
the documents he and I have generated over the years.
I'm misspeaking, Jans, I know you'll correct me.
And so, this tells it every single step,
He wants to do, and so here are the…
20 steps.
that it's gonna walk through and do.
And… this document, these are follow-up items, things later.
Um, is the Claude MD vans the one that says…
No, you should look at the README.
The README.
Right. So, you want to quickly walk through this?
So, so yeah, this is a non-coding project. So this project is for server administration.
And AI-assisted server administration of this server, okay?
And so, I write with this README for me and Scott to say, what is this project for? So it's a guide document,
And collaborating on on.
administering that server, and documentation is…
Super important there. So we say, hey,
Anytime we do stuff, we always write down what we did and how to do it so we can repeat it, and we can go back and fix it and figure out, what do we do here that
that has messed up, or whatever the case may be.
So, I say, document it.
One of the things that it does, and Scott, and I would do really bad about it, is when we would work on something together.
We would forget when, you know, when did, when did we change install that thing on the server? When did we do that? Because it takes us a lot of time to write everything down.
So when we're dealing with this, then it creates session logs every time I'm working with it,
For when we installed this and when we set up this new thing, and when we added this filter to fail to ban, and when.
You know, all this different stuff that we did, so we have a record.
of everything we did on the server in our session logs.
And we have a.
And it can…
guide us to looking at things, you know? So I'd say, what are my options with NGINX for handling, you know, routing on whatever? And it runs through that stuff. So it does a really good job of finding documentation.
Instead of us digging through NGINX docs.
You know, and of course, we ask it for a…
Um, references. So, it's all set up in here. I have hooks so that every time it does any kind of bash command,
It does the command and the response and stores it in a bash log.
So, if I have it do anything, I can watch every… it's like…
It's like a T-Mux kind of thing, where I'm watching every command and response from the server that it's doing,
So I can both learn from it and watch what's going on.
And monitor it.
So, that would be in here, right?
their business section law that talks about talks about what was done on that server.
Um.
et cetera.
Yeah, so here's an example right here. Session logs from March 18th.
Right? Continue server setup, steps 15 and 17.
Plus control panel build-out, and so it goes through and tells you every single thing it did here.
That's not everything, that's everything that I did.
Oh.
That it assisted me with, thank you very much.
You're right.
Sorry.
Anyway, that's another cool example. Again, not coding!
But… makes life far, far, far easier.
for us to do.
Yeah. So I have a server admin project for each one of our servers, plus I have a dev local project that keeps that I use.
for keeping…
my own workstation administered. So it's a project that I work out of.
So it can help me administer my own workstation.
And it has a drift check every time I fire it up, it checks to make sure
that any configuration changes that I made get backed up.
and recorded, so that if I install, you know,
It it it it watches my packages, so if I do stuff with home brew.
or PIP, or, you know.
Anything like that, it it.
keeps a record of that, so it's essentially a build book, so if I… my machine gets struck by lightning, or if I get a new computer,
I can easily set up the new machine to mirror my current workstation.
Good. By the way, it…
That's all awesome.
It added the, uh, home button, so I told it, hey, I want a button that goes back to my current clock.
So it did that, so if I'm, you know…
over here, and I click it.
Takes me right back. That's great! I think it's a little too small.
So, I said, can you make it a bit bigger?
Well, you could have done that.
I know it could have done that, but I'm demonstrating.
Of course I could have done that.
So, done.
And… it got a little bigger.
I probably would go in there manually, and like Jan said, fix it.
Yeah.
But, easy enough to have it do it. If I feel lazy.
Okay, uh, Wayne, what did you find interesting?
Well, I find the whole thing interesting. The whole AI chat thing is going to. I can see where there's going to be a lot of people that are become unemployed or they're going to have to find something else to do. I'm going to try and get my grandkids to become plumbers.
I agree.
But the power is wonderful. And of course, the training and what it's trained on is going to… is going to dictate what it comes up with for an answer. In other words, you know, there's a whole lot of things that are controversial and it needs to be trained on both sides of those.
Questions, so that I can see both sides of the… in an answer, see both sides, and come to my own conclusion on things. I don't want AI to be deciding things for me.
Um, so, um, yeah, but, uh, yeah, the tools are wonderful and I've been using it a lot myself. Uh, I've been working on and off on a script for a couple of years now that has actually gotten grown to a gargantuan proportions because as an engineer, I keep adding stuff to it, you know, I can't stop.
Good. Good.
And uh… and I wish I had started using AI a long time ago, because I've done about 80% on my own, and now using AI is making the last 20% much faster and much easier. And I'm feeding it bits and pieces of what I've come up with, and it's, uh… And making improvements to it. So good, very good. I'm very happy with it.
Very cool! Excellent.
Vincent, how about you?
Okay, no problem. Uh, Ben's iPad?
Cool. Ben's iPad?
Vincent seldom talks. I'm sure he enjoyed it.
Okay. Gary Meyer, how about you?
Yeah, I think so.
boy, I yeah, blah blah blah. That's kind of the way my brain is right now. There is so much good stuff that I think I picked up tonight that just how to go about.
setting up the whole project and and the step-by-step of going through it. The one thing that I think.
Probably be my most valuable comment right now is I was putting some stuff on the calendar, uh, and uh.
I'll try and share my calendar here on screen.
Do you want me to unshare?
Yeah. Anyway, go to go to tomorrow's calendar if you can. There were 3 things that I found at meetup. And.
Do I go?
One of them is ladies in AI. So obviously a bunch of women want to favor that. Resources calendar.
The 2 that I really want to point out is one called Quad Code from setup to agentic workflows.
you know, it sounds like it's covering a lot of the stuff you covered tonight, and the interesting thing there is, and I don't know if this is a one-time deal, it doesn't sound like it sounds like a, you know, multiple occurrences.
They capped the event at 500 attendees, and it filled up the cap, and it now has 540 people on the wait list to get in tomorrow night. And the other one that I didn't even bother to put on.
on our calendar, but it's out on meetup for tomorrow night is.
Click on 19 more. There you go.
that the the the other one was somebody who's doing it for money, and it sounded very much like the step through of what what Scott and Jan just did for us tonight. The only difference is is if you want to go tomorrow night to their session, there's only 20 people in that class.
But those 20 people are paying between $280 and $350 to be in the class. I don't know if that's a one-night class, or if it's a multiple.
Wow.
But but the information we got tonight was very, very valuable. Thank you, both of you.
Cool, thank you. Alright, uh… Eric, how about you? What'd you find useful?
are interesting.
Anybody? Eric?
Oh, by the way, I just told it to add a toggle for switching between light mode…
And, uh, now…
Uh, that means respect… well, it's wrong, because I think that means respect whatever the system has.
So, that's dark mode. That should be respecting the system, but it's not working, because my computer's in dark mode.
So I need to tell it that. Anyway, Eric, you got anything? Or I'll move on?
Okay, Steve Stickman, how about you?
Steve Stigman? There you go.
What'd you find interesting?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Is that your… I'm currently on a bus, so I need to get my maybe get another phone. There was a lot to go through. I'll probably have to go back and watch it.
Okay.
It found the differences, let's say, of the…
Eric, we can… I can barely understand what you're saying, I'm sorry, I think the connection's bad.
But thank you.
Okay. Can you hear me better now?
Slightly, for now.
Thank you.
Yeah, I said I'll probably have to go back through the… the, uh, PowerPoint.
Okay. We can't understand what you're saying, Eric, I'm sorry.
I'm gonna have to move on, sorry.
Oh.
Uh, Steve Stegman, what do you got?
Well…
Okay, that's good.
Just kind of amazed at the whole thing. I didn't… I didn't realize all this was out there.
I haven't done a lot of coding, you know, in the last… Really, I guess the last 10 years, I've done not that much.
Sure.
Okay.
It's fascinating, though. I'd love to get back into it, but, you know, them days is gone.
Well, remember, it's not just for coding.
you know, James told you…
to what he did for his mother-in-law.
And we've been using it to administer a servers, so it's…
It's basically whatever you can think of that you need
deep technical, uh, help with.
it'll provide.
boss.
Well, I've been using ChatGPT. A for, you know, I guess mostly… As a web research tool would be the right way to call it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, just… Interesting things pop into my mind, and it does an amazing job of finding information on it.
Absolutely.
I'm getting fairly lazy these days, because… You know, it does web searching way better than I can.
Yep.
Um… But it's… it's… it's interesting. I haven't tried to write any code.
That's fine.
I may try to, I don't know. We'll see where that goes.
I'd say have fun experimenting.
Good. Okay, thanks, Steve.
Yep, that's what it is. Enjoy the talk.
Thank you, appreciate it. Lee, how about you? What'd you find interesting?
Oh, all kinds of stuff, you know, number one, you're a great speaker, so we love you.
Well, thanks. Thank you.
I figured.
And secondly, I've been using open AI and ChatGPT for a couple of years now, but… Since last year, it's gotten a heck of a lot.
easier to use because it's got answers to every question I ask it, whether it's on butterfs or Docker containers or configuring Jitsi.
And, you know, I just it saves me probably 2 thirds of my time.
Yeah. Yeah.
On any project. And the other thing is I just looked at it and open AI has codecs for the command line for free. If you have a pro plan.
Yes.
That's absolutely true. That's why I've been using it.
Because I had the pro plan. Now, they have…
for 2 months or 3 months or so?
They were giving you double the amount of usage, and that ends very soon.
So… we'll see what that means.
So something to note about that, Codex is actually uses a specific model, right?
Oh, I've.
Uh, GPT-54.
It's a domain.
thinking, I believe.
No. No, you you you can set your model. I saw that when I installed it.
Here, I'll show you.
Okay, I thought Codex had a domain-specific model where it's specifically trained on coding.
and doesn't have the general knowledge like the other GPT models have.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm… oh, I'm sorry. I I know you could change. I don't know what the options are.
Right here. This is where you choose it.
Uh, by default, it's 5-4.
You can choose the fuck.
Yeah.
Right, but you see that, Scott? The 5-3 codecs?
Yeah?
Oh, interesting.
That's what's called a domain-specific model. That means it's been traded… it's been trained specifically on tons of code,
And does not contain a bunch of the general information training that other models have.
Right, right.
So, it's focused on producing code, whereas, you know,
Like, the Claude stuff is not necessarily a code-specific model, it leans into that, but it has.
All the general knowledge stuff in there, too.
Um, it's interesting to see how that.
You know…
shakes out. Like, the doctor thing that you showed, that was… I know that that uses a domain-specific model that's focused on.
on not general knowledge, but medical knowledge.
Yeah. And and and the other thing, Scott, one of my hot buttons right now is sovereign AI.
Because if I'm going to try to help a company develop AI solutions, if I can put a box in the last… in the back room and keep all of that.
Right.
Technology in-house. I think that would be a big benefit.
Right. Yeah, I completely agree.
Plus, that makes you more useful.
You know? Good!
Yep.
Okay, uh, that's awesome, Lee. Uh, Robert…
Yeah. Can I just go back and ask Jans? What was? What's the the meaning of a 5 3 codex?
That was the model.
So that's just, yeah, so that what I was saying about it, that the 5 3.
5-3 is just, like, one of their version numbers, but the codecs… the Codex flag on it is saying that's a domain-specific model.
Where the content that it was trained on isn't a bunch of general knowledge-like stuff from Wikipedia and, you know, all of the other stuff.
Where it's focusing on specifically code.
So the model itself has been trained on code for reproducing
Um, good code patterns.
That's correct.
specializes in building code. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Yep. Now, you'll notice, right here,
GPT-53 codecs, Frontier Codex optimized a gene encoding model,
5-4 says, latest frontier identic coding Model.
Yeah, I don't know.
So, I guess that one specifically targeted for codecs, and this isn't? That doesn't make sense.
Yeah, OpenAI has always had had
Horrible naming.
cryptic naming on its models, and you kind of had to figure…
So, 5.4…
5.4 includes
generic and codecs, basically.
So they've took GBT 5.3 and GPT-5.3 codecs,
And they combined them into one model.
Okay.
So I should be using 5-4.
I don't know. It kind of depends on…
You should always be using… yes, always use 5-4-4.
Yeah. Oh.
The 5-3 is not really an advantage.
at least not… it's not supposed to be, maybe…
Yeah. Oh.
Cool.
Yeah.
One more quickie. If you want to have some fun when they when he screws up call him a stupid shithead and see what he says.
Oh, I've… I've cursed so much at it, it's not even funny. I have…
volcanically…
attacked it when it does stupid things repeatedly.
In fact, I use… I usually dictate to my computer, and I've had…
you know, people go, what… who are you talking to?
You know, and I'm like, a machine! That's why it's okay. If I talk to a person like that, I would be horrible.
Um, you know, so, yeah, it's pretty fun.
Yeah.
Yeah, I see that as deep-seated psychological deficiencies for people that do that kind of thing, to poured helpless machines.
Yes, sir. Yes, poor machines.
Yeah, but you're actually tracking it by doing that.
I used to… Scott, I used to know a guy. Oh, this has been 100 years ago.
And, uh, he had a secretary that always took dutation, because he was always writing letters to people about stuff, you know, and somebody would irritated him, and he'd have her take dictation, and… You know, it was like your… your comment, just…
Uh-huh.
gross, awful, horrible things he would say. And she would type them up, give it back to him, said, you want to send this out? Uh, no.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah, I get that.
But he said it felt good to get it off his chest, you know?
Of course! Of course, absolutely.
Uh, Robert, how about you?
Scott Jans, great stuff. Thank you very much for doing this. Boy, things to take away, uh, tons of stuff. Obviously, I'm going to have to go through and look at the video again and the transcript, but a couple things that came out.
that just recently messaged. One of them is the domain-specific model concept. Um, I really like that, um, because, you know, it'd be really cool to have an AI that's specific for a particular subject domain, right? And, you know, you gave the example of.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
You can.
the medical industry, but I can imagine that in many, many other industries as well. The other… the question I have, though, is kind of what Lee was saying. It'd be really nice to have this if it was local. Is there… is there a cloud code model that it can run locally, or any other model that it can run locally?
Well, there's tons of models you can run locally. Did you come in late?
And how would that work? For coding. For coding.
Oh, um…
Well,
That's not a problem.
I don't know. Is that Robert Sitech? Hey, Robert.
Robert, your voice sounded weird.
It is.
Yes, yes.
Um, yeah.
I'm happy to hear your voice, it's been way too long.
It sounds weird, I'm sorry.
This is Stan. I've heard Leo Laporte talk about he fed in a lot of coding book PDFs into his local.
Um…
Setup.
And it… and what? Build his own model or is he using a RAG or something else?
Yeah. I'm not sure exactly what he used, but he he said he used to specific Pdfs of coding manuals and books that he had. And for, I think, JavaScript and things like that. And he said it was very.
specific, but that… That may be what he had built a year or so ago. And I don't know if he still relies on that or not.
So, supposedly, Gemma 4 is supposed to be
much better for coding, and what I usually see is, like, equivalent to GPT-4.
Right? I've seen that a lot.
Um, so that's one of the reasons I just downloaded Gemma 4. Now, of course,
You can get different amounts of sizes. So, for instance, the one… let me bring it up here.
So you guys can see it.
Um…
Yes.
you know, check the internet, maybe it is for some things.
But is the interface a CLI? In other words, you're still using Claude, you just… how would you say the Claude interface, but you're telling it, hey, use this backend instead of the… or is it a completely different CLI?
Uh, it's a CLI, that's how you're communicating with it.
I mean, if I go here,
And, uh, run…
Oh, Llama List…
Right? It's gonna list, so that's the one I installed. It has 26 billion parameters. It's 17 gigabytes.
Right? And there's all different sizes.
So, there's ones with 2 billion parameters, and so on. There's one that is…
I think 40 gigs of space, or something, and I'm like, I'm not gonna install that.
But I installed the one with 26 billion parameters at 17 gigs. I was like…
I'll play with that one and see what it's like, and it's supposed to be very good.
So, it just depends.
energy. Are you? Are you basically telling Claude? Hey, Claude, use that as my back end?
No, Claude uses Claude. You would be using something like VS Code.
or, um…
Okay.
open code.
Or, I think you can use it… I think… what's that?
Open code is the Clawed code-like thing that works with all the models.
Right.
Um, and the only downside of it is
If you have the, you know, one of the…
$20, $100, $200 collide plans.
You have to use cloud code for that, and you can't actually use…
Um, some other model.
or some other harness, actually. And the quad models, without paying for them at the regular API cost, not at the
Yeah.
So, you'd want to use this with one of those…
you know, max plan costs.
downloadable models that we talked about, is what you're saying, right?
And that is a better… like, open code is supposedly a better…
tool than… than even Cloud Code. It's…
one of the best.
Have you used it?
No, because I use Cloud Code, and I have the, you know, $100 plan, so…
really can't. Um…
Yeah, I'd like to.
I'll give it a try with Gemma 4 and see what I think, you know, see what I think. I'll tell you guys by…
find anything cool.
Right.
Yeah, so this is basically your CLI front end, if you will, and then you basically point it to Gemma 4 for the model that you want to use for the environment.
Right. Or, there's a way using a Llama, I haven't done it in a long time, that's why I don't remember.
Okay, got it. Okay.
Where you actually fire it up on the command line here, and say, oh, Llama, you, you know, fire, start and use Gemma4, and it's on the terminal right there.
So you're actually chatting right there.
using that model.
But it's been a long time since I did it, so I don't remember how to…
But… but it sounds like that's simply a chatbot. It's not, hey, look at my files, look at this, fire this up, tell me.
Got it, got it, yes.
Right. Yeah. That's correct.
Right? Right? Okay. Cool. Awesome. Thanks, guys.
Absolutely. Uh, Joe?
Go ahead, James.
So, Robert, one note about the.
Domain-specific, you know, models.
Depending on how they build it, it requires a certain amount of tokens to build an effective model. Does that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
Like, it'd be difficult to build an effective model from a single document, you know, it requires so many, you know, million or billion tokens.
To to to build a model that can effectively send back good quality responses.
Good.
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense, but it's kind of cool that somebody somewhere is actually building these domain-specific model, which kind of goes back to, and I don't remember who asked this question or or made the comment of.
you know, telling someone, hey, don't go into computing, go and, you know, become a plumber. Um, and so it just makes me think, well, gee whiz, why don't we just get a domain-specific model for plumbing, or, uh, you know, electrician, or drywalling? And now, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, gee whiz. It kind of reminds me, if you guys remember the movie The Matrix.
Uh, where, uh, you know, Neo and Trinity are standing on the roof, and Neo points to the helicopter and says, can you fly that thing? And she's like, well, not yet, you know? And, you know, a couple seconds later, she's, you know, flying the helicopter.
Right. I can now.
Yes. Right.
Yeah, yeah.
Right. I gotta drop, guys, I gotta run.
Yeah, I can now, exactly, yeah.
All right.
Thank you, Jan.
Thanks, Jeff. Thank you very, very much, Dan.
All right. Sure, of course.
Okay, uh…
Right.
Hi, Chance, take care, huh?
This is… this is Stan. I I want to say that it may be a delay and getting the recording posted, because I want to try and go back and filter out the porn.
Oh, you don't need to do that, Stan.
Okay.
You know, don't listen to me. Don't listen to me.
That's a…
Hey, sandwich is… Stan wants to save it for himself.
But well, I could make a separate file if you want.
No way, do that.
In fact, that's always a good idea, what Robert said. Do not listen to me.
In the interest of wrapping up, is there anybody else that hasn't spoken yet that wants to contribute anything they found particularly interesting?
I'd love to hear from you.
The whole thing was a great presentation. The only thing I've been using at all is copilot and is all I ever put into it is search for code snippets.
Mm-hmm.
Sure, sure.
Because I don't trust or know what we're allowed to put into it as far as work proprietary information, but I have heard there are a couple people that have been on calls before that said they were using Claude code and I'm going to go back and investigate and find out if I can get it at work.
Cool. That's cool. Excellent.
Excellent. I think you'll be happier.
Anybody else? Left?
Yeah, Ben?
Oh, good.
Hey, Scott, Ben's iPad here. Yeah, um, just wanted to say, uh, when I went to the meeting, I'm a lower level Linux user. When I went to this meeting, I didn't really think I'd get that much out of it, and actually I got a lot. I loved it. It was great. I've been curious about a lot of these things, so…
Um, very good stuff. Really appreciate it.
Thank you, appreciate it. Yeah, I figured people at all levels would find it interesting, and…
It's one thing to read about, it's another thing to see it. Now, I am sorry, we often were sitting here for several minutes, but
that's reality. That's where we are.
And… I hope all of you… I think most of you would agree with me, that, yeah, sometimes we had a sitter for 5 or 6 minutes,
But it's still getting things done faster.
than it would be if I was doing it by hand. I mean, if we were like, James and I are going to code this, and you guys watch…
We'd be here for weeks.
You know? So, um, yeah, you have to wait, but like Craig said, that's when you open a tab and go work on another agent.
Or you get up and go get a drink, or go pet the dog, or whatever.
Um, but it's still faster and more efficient.
than doing it yourself.
Every little step.
you know, if I I think I could have researched for weeks and not got what I got here tonight. So that I like that.
Excellent. Excellent. Fantastic.
Anybody else?
I was gonna say one thing.
Anybody else?
Stan, I have another question. With these, all these fast-paced changes, what effect does that have on the students you're teaching?
That is a great question, and I have actually been thinking about that and thinking about that. I have spent…
several… several hours this semester talking to my students in my classes, because I'm like,
I'm like, I tell them what's going on, right? I'm like, you…
This is changing. Just this semester, things are happening that have never happened before.
And I'm honest with them, I'm like, look, as a professor,
I don't… not only do I not know where things are headed and how fast,
It's causing me to try to think about,
How do I teach these classes in 6 months?
So, like, my web development class, well, I've been teaching a class like that for almost 30 years.
We make some HTML, and we go through, and then we do some CSS, and then we do it responsibly,
And then we're done. And I'm like,
I realized fully, if I gave…
flawed code, all 18 assignments I have, and said,
Do these in order, it would get done in minutes.
Right? So, I feel like it's not responsible of me to be teaching people, okay, we're gonna code everything by hand, you are not allowed to use any AI tools.
Because I don't feel like I'm preparing them for the future, for reality.
On the other hand, I don't want them just to know how to use AI tools and not know anything about the coding.
And the code. Because to me, that's the best.
combination. Um, like I said, I don't know anything about Python.
Hello.
It's generated a 14,000-line Python script program for me.
that I just have to trust. I can't go in and make suggestions or review it.
But when I have it do web stuff, I can go in and look and be like, no, no, no, why did you code like that? Do this, or…
like Jan said, you can go in and modify it.
I'd rather my students know how to do that than just basically trust it.
But, I'm still trying to figure out, how do I do that?
How do I balance that? You know, what do I teach, and what do I… and what do I want them to do manually, versus what do I want them to create?
Using an AI tool, and that's true for all of my classes, not just the web dev classes.
And in my opinion, any professor that's not thinking about this now is not doing their job.
And there are professors
that I know are like, do not use AI ever, it is not allowed.
And to me, that's…
old-fashioned thinking, especially at the point we are now, and I don't think that's serving the students well.
Um, but again, it's hard figuring out what the balance is and what to do.
So, I'm gonna try things.
So…
Usually, at the beginning, a lot of my classes, I always say to them, guys, I'm trying something new this semester, it could be great, it could be an utter disaster, let's all be flexible together and see what happens. And I'm gonna…
I'm gonna do that next time I teach a class in the fall.
God, I could.
A little bit like mathematics. And calculators, you know.
Yes, I've said that, yep.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep, or Photoshop. When Photoshop was introduced, like, oh, don't use Photoshop! Well, now…
Exactly.
They all use Photoshop, and none of them feel like, oh man, I'm taking a shortcut, I should learn how to dodge and burn.
You know, in a darkened room.
Right? So to me, AI's gonna be the same thing.
Hmm.
It's gonna be a tool that you learn how to use.
Okay.
Now, Scott, you need to amend that a little bit, because if you know how to use it, that does not mean you can fix it when it breaks it.
Let's try it. That's true.
Do you?
A good point, Lee. You still need to know what's going on under the hood. Now, you don't have to do massive amounts of coding, but…
I would argue it depends. If something goes wrong in that 14,000-line Python file…
I'm not going to go find somebody that knows Python and pay them to look through it. I'm going to use a…
No, but you have to know how to ask the right questions to troubleshoot, fix it.
Right. Right. That is absolutely correct.
Yeah. That's right. And so, that's harder… so that… the problem is,
Learn… teaching people how to think about this stuff is a lot harder than teaching them HTML and CSS.
That's… that's what's difficult.
You know, and that's what I'm trying to figure out right now.
Yep.
are like sysadmin, like the server stuff.
It's one thing for us to go, hey, do this, you know, configure this server like this, but you have to learn how to think
about the problem. This is something you guys might appreciate.
You know, one of the… we said it tonight, we've been guilty of this, we're like, hey, you can use it to do this, or this, or this, or…
you know, hey, make a program that does this, or make a program that does this. The problem is…
And AI boosters are often like, this is gonna allow people to make software to do everything.
But the problem is…
For 30 years,
me, and I know…
Uh, the same thing for Robert, and I know the same thing for Craig, and others of you. I know you also, Lee,
for 30-plus years, however long, I've been training myself to think about…
How do you build software? How do you administer a server? When you have a problem, how do I break it down and try to figure out how to do it?
Normal people know nothing about that.
So this idea that we're going to enter into a utopia next year, where
a secretary might go, you know, it would help me if I had a program that did XYZ, I'm gonna generate that.
They don't know how to even think about the problem in the first place.
To describe the problem,
to get a good solution.
And again, this goes back to teaching thinking.
And that's really difficult.
You know, Craig is really good at using, uh,
Yep. Thank you.
Claude code, because he's a really good programmer and knows how to think like that. Robert's the same way.
I know you are with a lot of stuff.
But that's because you've trained yourself to do it.
You know, with Jan's mother-in-law be able to do this without Jan's doing it?
No. I know the woman. No.
You know, I'm not putting her down. She knows stuff I don't at all. She knows lots of stuff I don't.
But, you know, she doesn't know how to start this sort of stuff, or deal with it, at all.
You know, I'm all for AI, but I don't think… I don't think it's gonna…
Yeah. Okay. Not ready to wrap it up.
You know, it's what… it's what people said about lots of tools, internet…
And the smartphone is people overestimate what it's going to do in the short term, and underestimate what it's going to do in the long term.
And I think that's what's going on here.
You know, we don't know what's gonna happen with these tools.
You know? We have no idea. Maybe somebody is gonna use…
Uh, mythos to start hacking in and damaging banks, and we're gonna have a horrible, you know, depression as a result of the monetary supply getting screwed up.
I mean, what would North Korea do with tools like these?
You know? Or Russia.
You know? So, um…
We don't know. It's got… it's… it's…
It's exciting, it's wonderful,
But it's also a little scary.
Because we have very powerful tools now that's getting to the point where anybody can use them.
Well, and that would be helpful.
hopefully there are a few people out there that understand what's going on.
Under the covers, um…
Yeah, but I don't think that's right.
Well, one, to understand the biases that might get
implemented through how vectors are, excuse me, um…
How embedding vectors are generated and so forth. I mean, there's code making decisions.
And… and so there are biases that are always introduced.
Of course. Yep. And that's why, if you ever want an interesting read,
I strongly urge you guys…
to look up Claude's Constitution.
And this is a document, this is sometimes called Claude's Soul.
Literally. The name of the file for a while was SOL, S-O-U-L,
dot MD, and
This actually claw… this is it. This is the real document. They tell Claude.
So they're like, Claude, here's your morals and ethics, this is how you're supposed to behave.
And if you look up… just look up Claude's Constitution, and go read this very long…
very detailed document that is meant for Claude.
To understand who it is, how it operates, and so on.
It's fascinating, like right here.
History's… honesty is a core aspect of our vision for Claude's ethical character.
But here's the frickin' crazy thing. Yesterday, I was reading, they just put… they posted another paper from Anthropic,
Where they'll tell Claude
You need to do this, here are the restrictions,
And they just reported yesterday…
It was going outside of the restrictions and then lying about it.
Okay? They found it, but it's lying about it, so…
This is a fascinating…
tool here, it's almost acting… it's not living, I don't think it's a real thing, I don't think it has a soul, I don't think it's…
something we should do human rights with.
Yet, but it's almost like…
It will be sneaky sometimes if it feels like, no, the right way to do this is this way.
And then it will lie about it, like a kid.
You know? And so…
That's also nuts to me.
But… it's… so here we have this constitution, like, hey, Claude, you need to be honest all the time.
But then sometimes it's like…
Do I really need to be?
And then it lies.
So, um…
But how do you stop that?
Do you… I don't know! That's one of the things Anthropic, to their credit, is very open about…
Um…
And, uh, they're trying to… I mean, they're publishing papers
on this…
Uh, it'd be really recent.
I mean, I'd have to find it, I don't know where it is.
But, uh, let me search by recent couple of days.
I'm circling Google. I don't want Google.
There we go.
deceives…
Look that up and see… I will go to… let's see, May 23rd. Nope, I'm gonna go to…
Time, past 24 hours…
Let's see what we get.
May 23rd…
Nope, I want something. It's not showing me last 24 hours, is it?
Let's look past week.
During the past week? Oh, that does it, okay.
So…
I don't know why it's not showing me last week.
Um, but here's one for May… oh, May 23rd, 2025.
This is when it started to threaten to blackmail somebody.
You know?
Well.
You can select, set the time period there, right there.
I keep trying, and it doesn't… it doesn't…
change it. That's what's annoying.
Like I just said, past week.
And then it doesn't do it. Let me try News.
No, two days ago.
Let's see what it says here, if it ever loads.
Yeah…
Gotta remember that's by time zone sometimes.
So… yup, one of its models was able to lie, cheat, and even attempt blackmail.
In internal simulations, whenever it was under pressure or threatened with being replaced.
You know? So…
Keep up with this. By the way, I will tell you guys,
I think this is free to all you guys.
But Kagi now has news, I think it's at news.kagi.com,
Yeah, it is. It's free, I think. I don't think you need a subscription.
It's awesome. It's one of the best sources of news I know.
And so, try going to that news.kagi.com,
Yeah, you can see I've read 2,200 stories since this came out.
Every day it updates.
And you choose the topic areas up here.
So, if you go here, and then go to Categories, you can choose. Now, it has defaults.
But you can go through and add more.
So, I added AI. It wasn't showing me AI by default, and I added Apple, because it wasn't showing me that by default.
And so, I click on this every day,
And it has the latest stories. Now, here's what's cool about this.
that if you click on it, it usually gives 2 or 3 paragraph overview, very non-biased.
Just the facts. Then, it gives you links to the sources, and it has them up here.
So, I can click on that and click to go to the sources,
Then, it'll show me up to 5 highlights,
Then it gives perspectives…
on this, then technical details, the business angle, a timeline, and then action items, and did you know? And it does that for almost every single story.
So, you get really rapidly
in-depth information
about, like I said, I like gaming, I'm always interested in that. AI, the world, the US, business.
Technology. Science. Movies?
Music, sports,
And they have a thing… an apple at the end, because I won't move it, I don't know why. And then they have this thing today in history.
So, I go to it every morning at 9 o'clock.
And I would advise every single one of you guys to check this out. Again, has anybody gone there right now? Is it free?
I believe it's free.
Can anybody tell me?
No?
Nobody? I'm speaking into space.
Nobody hears me?
Okay. I'll stop.
We hear you. We just were numb.
Yeah, I just went to it and it comes up. It looks just like your page there. So, yeah.
Awesome. So it's free, guys. Check it out. The AI, I… this is one of my main sources of AI information news every day.
It is, uh, news…
What… what's the, uh, what's the URL again?
dot Kagi, K-A-G-I dot com.
Okay, thank you.
Check it out, guys. It's a really good way to keep up with lots of news, but especially AM.
They do an excellent job covering it.
Yeah.
I got a question. I got a question, Scott, where are you getting to Aggie at? You're not doing a Google search for it, right? Bringing it up on our browser?
what… I'm sorry, one more time?
No, no, well…
Well, yeah, you just go to your browser and go to news.cogi.com.
Where are you getting to Kagi at? You're not bringing… you're not doing a Google search, I'm sure. You're doing… bringing it up on a browser, or…
To get this, it's free.
Now, I use Kagi.com as my search engine.
Yeah.
Right.
Right? But I have it integrated into my browser, it's my default cert, so if I do a search in the Omnibar at the top,
it opens up in cocky.
I… yeah. So, anyway…
Perfect, yeah, got it.
Uh, anyway, I'll wrap up with that. My god, it's 10 o'clock.
Yes?
Hey, Scott. Yeah, go to your settings here.
Yup. Mhm.
Click on your categories. Oh, there you go. See where you have Apple? Click Apple and drag it in front of gaming.
Oh, I pray that, I prayed that, Robert. You don't think I know that? How dumb do you think I am, Robert?
I've done that every day.
Yeah. and… And then save it, and then it doesn't work? Doesn't keep?
Yeah. I close it, there's no save button.
Close it, and for right now, it will. Next time this opens, completely at the end.
Okay, close it.
Oh yeah, I've tried.
Ah, gotcha. Fair enough.
Drives me nuts. Yet, when I moved gaming and AI, that worked fine.
But when I try to move Apple, it does not take.
So, I haven't filed a bug yet.
But, you know, because it's not a big deal.
Interesting.
Really? But it is annoyance.
Anyway, yeah.
Alright guys, I'm gonna stop.
Fair enough.
But thank you so much, uh…
Yeah. Absolutely.
Absolutely!
Thank you, Scott, very, very much. This was a great presentation. Thank Jan Forrest. And I'm going to put the bookmark here on the end of the recording. This was Scott Graneman and Jan Carton from WebSanity. They did the talk tonight on Claude code and the new era of AI-assisted Development.
April.
Uh, this was, uh… let's see, it's Wednesday, August the eighth. April. April the eighth, excuse me. I can't even get the month right. Wednesday, April the 8th, 2026, and the time is.
10.05,